With the 2010 diesel emission regulations the diesel will get less mpg like the 2008's and cost more so it will not have a cost advantage over a gas engine like they did 5 years ago.
ib516 wrote: From the story over at Pickuptrucks.com, Ford SuperDuty diesel/gas ratio used to be 75% diesel,25% gas, and that is now 60% diesel, 40% gas.
This does not surprise me at all, and makes sense. Was something I've been saying was gonna happen.
The diesel option costs almost $8000 more, and you pay that all for the privilege of paying .70 more a gallon for fuel. Add that to the fact that the new emission controls make the diesels even more complicated and rob a lot of the mileage advantage diesel had....Diesel is very quickly losing most of its appeal. Especially on Ford trucks, since Ford has what is arguably the best gasser choice you can get with the V10.
If gas/diesel prices keep on like they are, I wouldnt be surprised to see that ratio become more like 75% gassers, 25% diesel before its over with.
Don't count on that gas trend going on forever. Gas will catch up to diesel in the not so distant future. Europe has already seen the benefit of diesel. Diesel sales in Europe are now over 50percent of all sale in Europe. There is more energy per gallon in diesel. Put some good old American R&D into it and you will see 60-70 mpg diesel cars. But that is not what the tree huggers want. Keep diesel/gas high and it is easier to pass greenhouse legislation.
cummin strong wrote: Don't count on that gas trend going on forever. Gas will catch up to diesel in the not so distant future.
Probably, but that won't make up for the fact diesel costs soooo much more up front initially, and with the emission controls added to diesel now, the mileage advantage (and longevity of service, possibly) is just about gone.
Quote: Europe has already seen the benefit of diesel. Diesel sales in Europe are now over 50percent of all sale in Europe.
..That would be because Europe doesn't have near as strict emission restrictions for diesels, like we have here. If they did, you would not see so many diesels over there.
Its unfortunate - diesel is indeed more efficient, especially for heavy towing. But, EPA restrictions, higher fuel prices, and obscene markup by manufacturers on diesel trucks is really killing it.
Right now, Fords the only kid on the block that offers a gas engine that will directly compete with the diesels. You can buy a V10 that's nearly as powerful, is $8000 cheaper, and gets close to the same mileage as the new diesels. No one else offers this. Throw in the current .70/gal difference in fuel costs and the v10 becomes a very attractive alternative to the diesel.
It would be interesting to see if the other manufacturers are seeing the same shift in sales toward gas engines, or if this could be Fords V10 pulling in diesel sales.
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moparmaga2 wrote: I am waiting for the announcement that Ford will drop their half ton diesel engine.
ANYONE with a 5th grade education can see that a diesel engine in a half ton truck, whose buyers are 95% light duty users, do not want an expensive, smelly diesel to transport themselves to the grocery store. Maybe in 1999, this would have been different, but Diesel is $5.00 per gallon now, not .70 cents.
If Ford goes through with putting a diesel into a half ton anyway and the present market for fuel holds, then I cannot feel sorry for them losing millions or billions every quarter, even though I love my Ford.
Any average Joe can see that has FAIL written all over it.
This is the mindset that kills the diesel market in the US. A diesel does not have to mean heavy hauler. A small diesel in a 1/2 ton ideally would offer V8 type power for truck applications like hauling and towing while giving superior mileage unloaded. My FIL's 5.9L Cummins in his 2500 4x4 got better mpg than my current gasser, 18 city, 21 highway. I an many other gassers get his around town mileage as out highway mileage. The small diesels in the VW Jetta wagon get 50mph highway! If a truck hit 25 mpg EPA highway it would be fantastic and likely sell well despite diesel costs and it would still be great. The torque would also likely give better towing mpg numbers than an equivlent gasser.
If they're going to put the diesel in the F150, they need to make it small and fuel efficient with enough power to pull/haul what an F150 is capable of and normally used for. Putting a 300hp/500tq diesel in an F150 is a waste and won't be fuel efficient. 200hp/350tq is plenty in a half ton and should get good mileage to make it worth the cost.
As to American ingenuity commented on above, American manufacturers don't know a thing about 60 mpg cars, diesel or gas or otherwise. We need to learn from VW, Mercedes and Audi, they are already making cars that get that good mileage while we and the Japanese are still making cars in the 15 to 30 mpg range, no better than we were making 25 years ago.
SoCalDesertRider wrote: If they're going to put the diesel in the F150, they need to make it small and fuel efficient with enough power to pull/haul what an F150 is capable of and normally used for. Putting a 300hp/500tq diesel in an F150 is a waste and won't be fuel efficient. 200hp/350tq is plenty in a half ton and should get good mileage to make it worth the cost.
As to American ingenuity commented on above, American manufacturers don't know a thing about 60 mpg cars, diesel or gas or otherwise. We need to learn from VW, Mercedes and Audi, they are already making cars that get that good mileage while we and the Japanese are still making cars in the 15 to 30 mpg range, no better than we were making 25 years ago.
I agree about the 300HP Diesel in the half ton. WASTE..they needed an engine powered like you say 200 HP or so. It should have been a turbo 6.
SoCalDesertRider wrote: If they're going to put the diesel in the F150, they need to make it small and fuel efficient with enough power to pull/haul what an F150 is capable of and normally used for. Putting a 300hp/500tq diesel in an F150 is a waste and won't be fuel efficient. 200hp/350tq is plenty in a half ton and should get good mileage to make it worth the cost.
As to American ingenuity commented on above, American manufacturers don't know a thing about 60 mpg cars, diesel or gas or otherwise. We need to learn from VW, Mercedes and Audi, they are already making cars that get that good mileage while we and the Japanese are still making cars in the 15 to 30 mpg range, no better than we were making 25 years ago.
BINGO! A 1/2 ton is not towing a house off it's foundation and does not need monster numbers to achieve good performance a nd get good mpg. FWIW the Japanese do make cars that get good mpg like the Euro's. They just don't sell them over here due to America's obsession with vehicle size and horsepower. Many Euro and Japanese market cars have smaller powerplants and more standard transmission than their US counterparts. For example, the Acura TSX is Japan and Europes Accord. Here is is a subcompact. Subaru uses the 2.5L 4cyl. in the US, yet runs 2.0L 4's in Japan. Same hold true for the Euro's in some cases. Also remember Euro fuel is generally a higher octane as well allowing better power numbers through higher compression.
This is the mindset that kills the diesel market in the US. A diesel does not have to mean heavy hauler. A small diesel in a 1/2 ton ideally would offer V8 type power for truck applications like hauling and towing while giving superior mileage unloaded. My FIL's 5.9L Cummins in his 2500 4x4 got better mpg than my current gasser, 18 city, 21 highway. I an many other gassers get his around town mileage as out highway mileage. The small diesels in the VW Jetta wagon get 50mph highway! If a truck hit 25 mpg EPA highway it would be fantastic and likely sell well despite diesel costs and it would still be great. The torque would also likely give better towing mpg numbers than an equivlent gasser.
Your FIL has an older 5.9 Diesel. These could actually break 20 MPG. Show me a diesel truck today (with all the emissions junk on them, and even more slated to be required by the federal government in the next few years) that gets more than 1-2 more MPG than the equivalent gas engine.
Like I said in my original post, if it was 1999, a diesel in a half ton would make sense, but those golden days are over. For anything but the heaviest loads, it just does not make sense.
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