Jumbo Cranium wrote: YEah, I forgot, if you want it to work then don't let the fundamental forces of the universe stand in your way.
There were once "fundamentals" that said the earth was flat.
Bill Gates once said "10 GBs is more than enough space for anyone".
Things change in the universe. In a 1000 years Einstein may be proven wrong who knows.
LOL quoting Bill Gates as a sourse of a universal fundamental. Go on and build your electric car with the windmill mounted on it, same thing.
And things like some scientists saying lead is a safe fuel additive doesnt quite rank up there with the Conservation of Energy laws of physics now does it?
And the Theory of Relativity? Did you not understand the first word of that? THEORY? Thats quite different than the word LAW.
Edited due to the fact I tend to be a smart A$$. Sorry
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If folks are willing to throw their money away on schemes like this, then be my guest. You know what they say about a certain types of people and their money...
Let me be more specific: hydrolysis is very inefficient. At best, it will convert X amount of electrical energy into X amount of Hydrogen energy. So at best, if one uses 1 kW of power to produce some amount of Hydrogen, the best you can hope for is 1 kW of extra energy out of that Hydrogen. Since one is using their alternator (i.e., a generator) to produce the original 1 kW of power, that 1 kW of power comes from your engine. So your engine has to work 1 kW harder to produce that Hydrogen which then goes back into the engine to add no more than 1 kW of power.
Anything more tan that and you have a perpetual motion machine (energy from nothing).
Now if somehow the hydrolysis is 100% efficient (not possible, but we can dream), then it might be a way to store energy (like in a hybrid).
Now an easy way this scam can work is that they do not measure the mpg while the system is generating the Hydrogen and then measure the mpg while they are putting the Hydrogen back into the vehicle. That would be like measuring your mpg when you are coasting and ignoring the values when you are accelerating. If you only measure mpg while going downhill, you can get some fantastic numbers.
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Jumbo Cranium wrote: YEah, I forgot, if you want it to work then don't let the fundamental forces of the universe stand in your way.
There were once "fundamentals" that said the earth was flat.
Bill Gates once said "10 GBs is more than enough space for anyone".
Things change in the universe. In a 1000 years Einstein may be proven wrong who knows.
LOL quoting Bill Gates as a sourse of a universal fundamental. Go on and build your electric car with the windmill mounted on it, same thing.
And things like some scientists saying lead is a safe fuel additive doesnt quite rank up there with the Conservation of Energy laws of physics now does it?
And the Theory of Relativity? Did you not understand the first word of that? THEORY? Thats quite different than the word LAW.
Edited due to the fact I tend to be a smart A$$. Sorry
Scientific theories define scientific truths, and are not theories like the half-baked, half-researched ones you read here.
Bill Gates might not have been the best possible source of a "universal fundamental" what ever that might be, but he certainly had the horsepower to make his opinions the universe in which we all had to exist, computer wise.
And lastly, does it take more, less, or an equal amount of electrical energy to liberate an equal amount of energy in the form of hydrogen?
Lead in gasoline went away because scientists refuted the statements made by paid hacks for the oil companies. It is an example of how the scientific method actually works, not an example for demonstrating that it doesn't. The scientific method is not nice, and particularly not nice to hacks.
When the "right people" find the "right system" and are able to make the money that they expect, then we will experience a new automotive power source that will be mass produced at a price people can afford.
Right now THEY own oil and THEY are our masters.
In the future, THEY, might own Hydrogen and we will again bow to them.
[/quote=Stressor]
And lastly, does it take more, less, or an equal amount of electrical energy to liberate an equal amount of energy in the form of hydrogen?
[/quote=Stressor]
Like was said above, unless it is 100% efficient, an impossibility by the way, it takes more electrical energy than you will recover by liberating hydrogen. Anything else is like energy from nothing.
Well if it does not work somebody better tell these guys before they loose alot of loot.
Quote: Ronn Motor Company Building New Generation of Hydrogen Cars
06/3/2008
Ronn Motor Co. unveiled the key to a new generation of green cars by revealing the nuts and bolts of what it expects will help drive down consumers' cost to travel the highways with on demand hydrogen production. The new car, now in pre-production, is called the Scorpion, and the Company plans for it to be available to consumers this fall. The hydrogen delivery system with dual computer processor controls produces hydrogen on demand, and in real time, which will be inducted through the air intake manifold and blended with gasoline at a ratio of 30-40% hydrogen, according to Maxwell. The fuel for this system is derived from fracturing water molecules drawn from a small on board water tank, and will not require a high pressure, on board hydrogen storage tank or hydrogen fueling station.
Millennium Group Holdings Inc. has Changed its Name to Ronn Motor Co
04/22/2008
On April 22, 2008, Millennium Group Holdings Inc. changed its name to Ronn Motor Co.
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kmb1966 wrote: There were once "fundamentals" that said the earth was flat.
Actually, since Eratosthenes measured the size of the earth to a pretty fair approximation back around the end of the 3rd century BCE, no educated person thought the earth flat. The argument against Columbus was not that he was going to fall off the edge, but that his estimation of the size was far too small and his ships could not possibly carry the supplies necessary for the voyage. This was true and he and his crew would have died had not there been an unknown continent in their way.
The flat earth story is exactly that - a story. It originated with Washington Irving's biography of Columbus. More details can be found in Jeffrey Burton Russell's "Inventing the Flat Earth." It's a relatively modern fiction that has become a well-known urban legend.
Eric
2003 Outback 25FB
There are only 10 types of people in the world:
Those who know binary and those who don't.
Stressor wrote: And lastly, does it take more, less, or an equal amount of electrical energy to liberate an equal amount of energy in the form of hydrogen?
It will take more energy because the conversion process is not 100% efficient. On a basic level, the extra energy is liberated as heat.
From the Wikipedia article on the Electrolysis of Water:
Quote: The energy efficiency of water electrolysis varies widely with the numbers cited below on the optimistic side. Some report 50–70%, while the theoretical maximum efficiency of the electrolysis of water is between 80–94%.
Just keep in mind the Laws of Thermodynamics:
First Law - You can't win, you can only break even.
Second Law - You can only break at absolute zero.
Third Law - You can never reach absolute zero.
Or, even more simply put:
1. You can't win.
2. You can't even break even.
3. You can't get out of the game.
Jumbo Cranium wrote: [/quote=Stressor]
And lastly, does it take more, less, or an equal amount of electrical energy to liberate an equal amount of energy in the form of hydrogen?
[/quote=Stressor]
Like was said above, unless it is 100% efficient, an impossibility by the way, it takes more electrical energy than you will recover by liberating hydrogen. Anything else is like energy from nothing.
There aint no free lunch.
Sunshine is free, and is the source of most of our existence, solar panels are getting cheaper, and that can be used to generate a lot of hydrogen, along with windmills, tidal forces, and hydroelectric plants. The hydrogen economy would be dependent on cheap solar energy.
It would certainly be more efficient to go from any of the previous items directly to the electron, and bypass the hydrogen economy altogether. I am hoping for a good battery.
As for the original post, he ain't getting something for nothing with his mason jar. Where he comes from, shine goes into mason jars, and this good old boy is just shining us on by blowing HHO our way.
The whole problem with this thread is that we are all forgetting that these guys are installing these HHO generators, and they are getting improved gas mileage. How? I don't know. But if sticking a wad of bubble gum on your windshield makes your mileage go up, I say bring on the hubba-bubba!
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