As some of you might recall, we made the decision to sell our ol' Beaver Patriot in January & return to our TT roots. Some of the decision was because we really like TTs and where they can go vs where a DP can go, some because we couldn't get the DP inside our barn or even up our own road, and some because of the economics of a DP vs. a TT.
Because of the state of the RV market, complicated by the fact that we live in an extreme corner of the country, we anticipated a long and painful sales process of the DP. We allotted 2 years for the process before re-thinking the decision. We set a reasonable asking price and started with a free ad on Craig's List linked to a very nice web page with many quality photos. After just 6 weeks and only 1 tire-kicker we had two willing buyers on the same day at the same time. We sold it to the first one that arrived for 90% of our asking price. We were stunned by how easy it was.
A few days after the money was officially in our bank, we ordered a new Arctic Fox. We'd already found the perfect truck in January. In May we went to the Northwood factory and saw our TT on the production line just before they put the outside walls on. Northwood builds RVs one model at a time, so we saw 29Vs at every stage of construction from the fabrication of the chassis to the application of the decals. I've got over 100 pix of 29Vs in production.
The coach arrived in town on June 6th and we took delivery that afternoon. A few days later we joined about 40-something other Arctic Fox owners at a rally near the factory. The coach was better than we expected, and the factory quickly fixed the one minor glitch we found in that 10-day trip.
So, we get back home & drive by the dealership and can't help but notice that all the new RV's are gone. All of them. No Winnebagos or Itascas, Newmars, Jaycos, Alpenlites (Western RV) & no Arctic Fox's. Wow. Just a dozen old trade-ins.
Our first thought was 'Whew' we dodged that bullet. We're not concerned about warranty service, because (a) we don't anticipate much need for it, (b) there are dealers within 2-3 hours, (c) the factory is just 500 miles away, and (d) I can fix most things myself. But, there is this little issue of only having paper plates on the rear window. Since they expire on Monday, I thought I'd drop by and ask him how that's going . . .
Well, he says we'll find out on Monday after the judge decides what he can do and what he can't do in court. He said there is a restraining order preventing him from doing anything and the hearing is on Monday in Pasco, WA (the opposite corner of WA from us). Hmmm. He does say that since we financed our TT, we're 'probably OK' because if we'd paid cash we'd have a problem.
What I'm gathering is that when the TT was completed and ready to ship, the factory sent the dealership a fax. The dealership responded with a Purchase Order that triggered delivery to the dealership. But, apparently the dealership defaulted and someone went to court before the dealership paid Northwood for our TT. As a consumer, I figure we're at the bottom of the pecking order, but a bank paid the dealer for most of the TT & they'd be higher up the pecking order of who gets paid and who doesn't.
Of course, our BIG question is: How is all of this going to unfold? Of course, neither the bank nor the factory want our TT. But we do. But, the factory would obviously like to get paid for it and how does that work out in these circumstances? I called WA DMV and they said that (a) they weren't aware of any bankruptcy proceedings for this dealership, (b) that we might get involved in a civil case with the dealership to get the title, (c) that the state would help with securing the title, and that (d) since we have docs showing we paid the sales tax to the dealership that part won't be a problem because the state won't ask us to pay them again. But, that still leaves a lot unsaid and unclear. We'd welcome any suggestions and info from folks that have real knowledge on what might be going on and how it might play out.
FYI, we still think the dealership owner is a decent and fair guy. We'd bought an old Holiday Rambler TT from him before and when he discovered that it had a serious problem AFTER the deal was done, he had it fixed correctly, quickly and on his nickle with zero hassle to us. We knew the business was off and that he was making adjustments by cutting some staff, etc. I see this as a case of unfortunate timing for us--someone has to be one of the last folks to buy from a business just before it implodes and it was us this time.
* This post was
edited 07/19/08 07:20am by an administrator/moderator *
Steve & C. J.
"Gracie" the Rough Collie & "Bo'sun" the Bichon Frise
Steve,
I do not think you have a problem since you accepted delivery and completed the deal before the collapse. Your financial institution will need to pursue the title and you should be able to get plates through your DMV. If the dealer did not pay the manufacturer it would be their legal issue and not yours. Remember you did not do anything wrong and you purchased in good faith.
You may have done nothing wrong but the dealer can not pass ownership to you unless they have ownership to pass. The money was loaned to you, not the dealer so I would think you are on the hook for that.
If the dealer did not legally own the unit then they have no legal way to make you the owner and the lender has no legal obligation to verify that the dealer has ownership. Usually the lender will confirm ownership and transfer as a way of looking out for their own interest. However, they are under no legal obligation to do so. You never said at what point you gave the money to the dealer but it sounds to me like the TT still belongs to the manufacturer (unless they transferred title to the dealer). You are responsible to the bank for the money you borrowed (what you did with it is not the banks problem). And you beef is with the dealer who is under some control of a court order at this time.
Essentially, the dealer paid the manufacturer with a bad check (PO) which is the same as not paying at all. Any transfer the dealer did subsequent to that (ie: to you) would not be legal.
Remember, a tag (paper or metal) is not a title.
I am not a lawyer but if I was you I probably would go get one.
Just my opinions.
Chris
2001 Monaco Knight
2004 Dutchmen Dorado
1999 Jeep Wrangler
100% Solar Powered Home
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
Possession is 99% of the Law. Keep EVERYTHING on paper..even dumb stuff. Make notes and date them. Good Luck. TOM
Locomotiveman..Yes I am a career cross-country Locomotive Engineer. Wife is an RN. We are CLOSE to retiring and 'downsized' to a Monaco Executive w/450hp Cummins and nice drapes. Locomotiveman
I am surprised the bank released the funds without the title.
I know you need to worry a little about the title but I would not worry much about the tag. I'm sure you could explain it if you get pulled over and to be honest I towed one around for several years and never put a tag on it.
"You're lucky to be alive my friend."
Quote from the "Do it yourself police" and many others that have known me.
I assume he filed bankruptcy but what did the owner actually tell you happened.
Used to have a Nash 22H. Really good trailers, wished they made motorhomes.
2004 Monaco
La Palma 36DBD
Two Slides
2 Potties
Workhorse 22 chassis
8.1 gas engine & Allison transmission
6.9 MPG based on a 6,000 mile trip around the U.S.
Has the bank registered a lean against the trailer? Hopefully they have, because if the bank lent the money for the trailer you now have and said trailer is the security for the loan, you should be OK.
Ian
1991 Winnebago Warrior 30eu
OLD RIG
2006 Chevy Uplander 3.5l
2005 Jayco Sport 165 18' 3500lbs loaded
Putnam WD w/800lb bars
Acar friction type sway control
Hoppy digital display brake control
BALANCED tires! (Please everyone, balance your tires!)
1. It seems pretty clear to me that the factory believes that you are the owner. After all they did perform some warranty work at your request. Save any paper work that documents this.
2. The factory has in place some sort of agreement with the dealer regarding money and collateral. If your TT is not the collateral for that money then you should be off the hook. If your TT is collateral then the dealership might be guilty of fraud.
Wayne in San Jose
TV1:2002 Chevy 1500HD 4wd Crew Cab,Valley Odyssey brake ctlr,McKesh mirrors
TV2:2008 GMC 2500HD long bed 4wd Crew Cab,GMC brake ctlr,GMC mirrors
TT:Trailmanor 2720
Honda 2000
Yamaha WR250R,Polaris Sportsman 700 X2,Polaris Scrambler 500
hohenwald48 wrote: \
Essentially, the dealer paid the manufacturer with a bad check (PO) which is the same as not paying at all. Any transfer the dealer did subsequent to that (ie: to you) would not be legal.
And exactly how do you know that? No where was that discussed. Apparently you have a crystal ball, and if that is the case, could you please tell me the lottery numbers?
Offline
