Help, I need some advice. I recently won an auction on E-Bay and the dealer won't do the right thing. Here is what happened:
1. On July 17th, 2008 I bid on a 2007 Forest River Sandpiper 325RG 5th wheel travel trailer that was listed on the E-Bay online auction site. :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-2007-Sandpiper-5th-wheel-by-Forest-River-BELOW-COST_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em14Q2el1318QQhashZitem160260333350QQitemZ160260333350
This trailer was listed by a RV dealership in Tucson Arizona doing business as Nelson’s RV. When the auction ended, on that same day, I was the winning bidder with a bid of $15,255.57.
2. Following the completion of the auction, I made the necessary $250 deposit using PayPal to Nelson’s RV. The remainder of the amount was to be paid within 7 days of the completion of the auction.
3. Prior to placing my bid on E-Bay, I had researched the RV online and found that Nelson’s had it listed for sale on many web sites including, but not limited to, Craig’s List, RVUSA, RV Trader, Forest River Source, RV Towables, NelsonsRV and RVT. In all cases the RV was listed for sale at $29,999 and was pitched at being “under dealer invoice”.
4. When I was able to win the auction at $15,255.57, I was immediately concerned that the seller might not want to honor their side of the deal, because the price was so much less than they were asking on other websites. Nevertheless, I knew that as a dealership, they understood auctions very well and had knowingly and willingly auctioned it off. I reasoned that since the 2009 models were now out, that they might be very anxious to get rid of a new 2007 model they still had on hand.
5. On the morning of July 18th, 2007 I sent an e-mail to the dealership through E-Bay telling them that I had made the necessary deposit and requesting that someone call me to discuss payment arrangements for the balance due.
6. Later that morning I called the dealership and spoke with “James” because I never received a call. He stated that he was just a bookkeeper and that I needed to speak with “Jim” who was not yet in. He took my name and number and told me that Jim would call me back in 1 hour.
7. An hour and half later I called back because I never received a call. James informed me that Jim was still out and that he had been trying to reach him by cell phone. He assured me that I would get a call back in another hour.
8. At 12:33 pm on July 18th, 2007 I received the following email:
07-18-2008
Patrick Lewis,
We are devastated with our discovery this morning of a swarm of Africanized killer bees in the 2007 Sandpiper 325RG 5th wheel that you have a deposit on. We have used multiple poisons in an attempt eradicate them. We have vacuumed up the bees that covered the floors, cabinets, and furniture. We tried to clean the traces of honey on the countertops and cabinet tops as completely as possible. This is one of the terrible acts of Mother Nature we have in Arizona. As best we can determine, the bees entered from the door that had been left opened yesterday morning. The interior of this trailer does have a strong chemical odor from the poison and is TOXIC. Our insurance regulations prohibit us from selling this 5th wheel at this time.
Due to these circumstances beyond our control, we are unable to proceed with the sale of this 2007 Sandpiper 325RG 5th wheel. This vehicle is unsafe for occupancy or use. We are therefore refunding your deposit at this time. We have attached several photos. Watch Ebay for other close-outs we will be posting soon.
James Nelson
Toll free 1-929-8527
0718080939.jpg
0718080940.JPG
0718080941.JPG
9. Upon reviewing the enclosed pictures and corresponding file names, it is obvious that they have been altered. The middle picture could not have been taken 2nd as the file names indicate. Furthermore, its picture quality is visibly different than the other two pictures. It seems obvious that the middle picture was taken sometime after the first two, probably on another day altogether and possibly with a different camera.
10. The two cans of “TOXIC” chemicals pictured in the second picture are indoor household foggers manufactured by Hot Shot and Ortho. Both were designed to be used, and are safe, for indoor use.
11. Within a few minutes of receiving the e-mail, I received another from PayPal indicating that my deposit had been refunded by Nelson RV.
12. After receiving this e-mail, I looked up the chemicals in question on the internet. I then called my local attorney for advice, as I believed that Nelson’s RV was trying to back out of the deal and was being disingenuous.
13. My attorney advised me that he felt all the elements were in place for a contract and that even if their story were true, it should be my decision as to whether I wanted to accept the trailer in that condition. If a product that has been offered for sale does not turn out to be as advertised, then the buyer can decide to not go through with the sale. He told me that if I wanted it, I should send them an E-mail explaining my position and see how they respond. He further told me that if legal action were required, I would need to hire counsel in Arizona as he was not licensed to practice there.
14. I sent the following e-mail at 5:13 MST on 7-18-08:
James,
After discussions with my attorney today and reviewing material safety data sheets of both the Ortho and Hot Shot brand indoor foggers that you used, I have decided that I will still take the 5th wheel. Thank you for disclosing the unfortunate event.
I would like to send a local representative to your dealership to inspect the unit as my agent. I would also like to resubmit the necessary deposit as required in our contract.
Please call me to arrange a time for closing as I intend on traveling to Arizona to pick up the Sandpiper within the next week.
Regards,
Patrick J. Lewis
15. At 9:45PM MST on 7-18-08 I re-deposited the $250 via PayPal to Nelson RV.
16. On the morning of 7-19-08 I spoke with a business associate, , who lives in Tucson. He has a lot of experience with RV’s as he worked for many years in his prior job as the service manager for a large Tucson area RV dealership. Heindicated he would be willing to help me evaluate the RV when I went to pick it up, and I could call him with questions prior. I told him that I would wait and see what happened.
17. At 10:54AM MST on 7-19-08 I received the following e-mail from Nelson RV:
Hi
We have received your deposit on the 2007 Sandpiper 325rg 5th wheel, and someone will be in contact with you later on today (prior to 3:30pm Arizona time) to make arrangements.
Thanks
18. By 11:08AM MST, things had changed, as I received a call from Jim Nelson. Jim said that he understood that I “think” I have bought a trailer from Nelson RV and that it was just EBay and Bee’s nonsense that I was talking to James Nelson about. But that he had the owner there, Angelita Nelson, and that he was going to put her on the phone. Angelita got on the phone and said “You did not buy a trailer from us and to quit calling and e-mailing us.” I Responded that the trailer was offered to the highest bidder in an auction, and that I was the highest bidder. Therefore I believe we have a contract for the sale. Angelina replied forcefully, “There is no contract! And we don’t even have the trailer anymore.” I responded by saying, that is not what the e-mails I have from you say, and I hope you still have the trailer because we have a deal. She then said in a very angry tone, “We do not have a deal! And we will not allow you to swindle us out of $15,000.” At which point the phone went dead.
19. I felt like she hung up on me, but as it was my cell phone that they had called, I felt like perhaps the call was dropped. I tried to immediately call back, but the phone on the other end was picked up and then hung up immediately. This, in my mind, confirmed that she had hung up on me and that there would be no chance of working this out without seeking further legal assistance.
20. As of the morning of the 21st, I have had no further contact with the dealership. Also, they have not attempted to refund my 2nd deposit.
Now what? Has anyone ran into anything quite like this?
An Ebay deal is a binding contract. Contact Ebay. Also, just so you know, there was a thread recently locked on here because it was about to turn in to a law suit and the authorities were already notified. It's against forum rules. I'd love to hear how this comes out, though. Good Luck.
Sounds like fradulent ebay seller. I would contact ebay directly with your docuements and have them pull the seller. Since they refunded your money and didn't have any signed agreements (nor do you have any email stating that they sold it to you) then you're pretty much SOL. This is one of the main reasons why I will never purchase something from ebay and why I think it's stupid that ebay pulled the ability to put negative feedback on a seller's profile. You were luckily protected by PayPal and got your cash back.
I would say go find another dealer. Even if you did push it and got your RV at your price I would wonder what other "hidden" stuff might be wrong with it where the dealer wouldn't honor any repairs or much else. Just not worth the time and effort. Move on.
I would send a copy of this well written post to the AZ attorney general, the Tuscon BBB, EBAY fraud division, and a lawyer in Tuscon, instructing him to start legal proceedings. You have documented a very strong case. Keep us posted please, and good luck.
Just Bob wrote: I would send a copy of this well written post to the AZ attorney general, the Tuscon BBB, and a lawyer in Tuscon, instructing him to start legal proceedings. You have documented a very strong case. Keep us posted please, and good luck.
This. If that doesn't work get a local attorney over there to send a letter. Its a binding contract if you pursue you will win.
Don't know what advice I can offer but it appears that the dealership owes you a trailer. Pulling up the auction link it doesn't say that there's a reserve price that must be met. If this is an oversight on their part, it's their fault and they should honor the sale IMO.
Have you contacted Ebay and let them know what happened? I would do that as well as contacting the Arizona State Attorney's office and tell them what happened. I would also consider calling the local Arizona "consumer reporter" of the local paper and telling them what happened. Nothing like good old bad publicity to pull some businesses in line. Also, file a report with the Better Business Bureau.
Short of getting an Arizona lawyer to fight this in Arizona - i'd start with the above.
Also, print out any information, email, pictures etc of all your correspondence with them and also note any phone conversations, who they were with, what time, what was said etc. Document EVERYTHING! This will go a LONG way in your case.
I once tried to use a broker to buy a car last year. Several times I asked what the fee was to use them and never got an answer. When I finally got tired of the way they did business, and got tired of very little results I said I wished to shop on my own and thank you for your help, they told me to send a check for $500.00 for their efforts. Because I was able to re-send them every email we sent back and forth with my question of how much their services were to use them highlighted with it never being answered - they emailed back that they wished to never do business with me again and good luck finding a car on my own (which I did at a better price).
Good luck. Let us know what goes on. I'm interested in hearing how this turns out.
Just Bob wrote: I would send a copy of this well written post to the AZ attorney general, the Tuscon BBB, EBAY fraud division, and a lawyer in Tuscon, instructing him to start legal proceedings. You have documented a very strong case. Keep us posted please, and good luck.
I would also contact the local paper in Nelson's town and see if they are interested in running a story. There may be a "troubleshooter" segment on a local TV station as well.
Jim & Sim - Fulltiming. - - Follow our adventures at: JimandSim.com
98 Foretravel U320 40', Cummins 450 HP/1450 lb-ft, HD4060 Allison, w/rtrder
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Angelita and James Nelson are the owners, 4310 N Flowing Wls
Tucson, AZ 85705 and contact info is Phone: (520) 293-1010 Fax: (520) 690-1613 Toll-Free 1-866-929-8527, Email: sales@nelsonrv.com and not a member of the BBB! No negative customer complaints found either!
Yet another reason I don't mess with eBay. You have to admit a swarm of killer bees would kill most deals. Sometimes cheap isn't inexpensive. At least the lawyers will turn a profit
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