Some of the above is not helpful. Helpful is knowing what you want and how to get it, and when to get it. Your issue is not a brand war thing.
Your old rig could, with some modification, tote a Lance 815 and tow you stuff. THE defining issue would be the awful gas mileage you would get with 10000 to 12000 lbs. of gross. My prediction with the big GM gasser and the TH400(no overdrive gear) with 4.10's is around 6 miles per gallon. Of course, how many years of driving at 6 mpg could you go to pull even, cost wise with $29K worth of sled that gets 13-15 mpg(loaded).
AFA the Dodge, it has the best 6 speed manual in truck-dum, and arguably the most dependable engine in small truck-dum. The 2500 RAM has virtually the same running gear as her big sister the 3500. Only the secondary overload springs are different. Oh, and spools to widen the front axle to match the rear when using duals. Outer full floating hubs slightly wider on 3.5K. So maybe just super springs to bring it up to snuff.
Your quandry is actually a tough call. The Dodge could do it. What do you really want to do?
The cheapest way, no matter how many mpg's a rig gets is to stay with what you have and make do. Then again, our wandering eye gets the hots for something newer and slicker, and we start to rationalize our way up.
regards, as always, jefe
'01.5 Dodge 3/4T, CTD, HO, Qcab, SB, 4x4, 6spd, D60, D80+Pwr Loc,
camper&tow pkg,Titan V, 285/75R-16 frnt, 33/14.5 Nitto super singles rr,
Rancho 9K's, Warn M15K winch. tows Jeep CJ8 rock crawler on 14' trailer
'98 Lance Squire Lite 165s, 8' 6" X Cab
I love these "Diesel vs Diesel" posts. Nothing against Diesel, I have a fellow who is willing to trade his Duramax for my little gas pickup because with Diesel at over $5.00 a gallon and gas at $3.86 out here, the gas is a better deal.
Now playing Devil's Advocate
Take this into account before plunking down the green. One, where are you going to get your diesel from in the area you live, and do you have to make a special trip just to fill up? How much will it cost you to drive it? What type of mileage are you going to get? How much will it cost you at the pump to fill it up?
I get about 21 MPG from my daily driver 1/2 ton pickup, and about 16 MPG with the camper on. 34 gallon tank costs me about $130+ to fill up when I pull up to the pump. I can drive about 650 miles before refilling if running empty, about 400 miles with the camper on. My Ranger had a 20 gallon tank and could run 540 miles on a tank empty, 350 miles with the camper on the back, and cost me about $80 to fill it up.
As for diesel, up here in Taxachusetts, Diesel stations are few and far between once you get away from the major 4 lane highways. One day I drove to the Cape in a diesel truck, and sweated it out trying to find a station that had diesel, everyone had gas, but only 4 places I drove by had diesel at the time.
I looked at diesel trucks when I bought my GMC last month, great prices, but it figured out I would have to shell out $400 every 2 weeks ($5 / gallon for diesel, 40 gallons a week) to drive back and forth to work. For what I was supposedly saving on buying a diesel, I would end up spending 25% more in fuel costs to drive the same distance.
Good Luck and watch your options.
Life is short, Play harder.
2002 GMC Sierra 1500 Regular Cab Long Bed 4.3L V6 Automatic 2WD
Around here, any new diesel bought without a trade, can be had for
$13k off the sticker price. If you need to upgrade because of miles or vehicle reliability on your truck, I would try to sell it and buy straight out. The newer post-emmissions do about 1 or 2 mpg below the older ones, but they have a lot of built in upgrades and performance.
B.Pettitt
Dodge, lwb, drw, 6.7, no mods
Arctic Fox 811
06 Wrangler
Pontoon Boat
Vietnam Vet...and proud of it
In Denver, they are selling Dogde trucks for over $14,000-$17,000 off msrp. The difference of $8k will buy a lot of diesel. The Dodge also has built in exhuast brake (really about a $1200 option if you added it later). Cummins is just hard to beat (torque/hp from a straight 6) My truck has run flawlessly for 40k miles, and is just broken-in with mpg increasing. It really comes down to personal choice. The GM will probably run bit more smoothly on the road
FlyFishn
2005 Dodge HD CTD w/Vision 19.5" Wheels & Michelin XDE tires, Rancho 9000 XL, Hellwig, Timbren, Air Bags, Super Hitch
2008 Hallmark XS with Carbon Fiber roof, Tork Lifts w/Fastguns, Honda 2000 iU, Solar
Steve_in_29 wrote: If you are going to really use the 4x4 then go with the Dodge as its solid front axle and increased ground clearance will be appreciated in the rough.
Silvrwolf,
I'll have to agree with Steve ... get the Dodge.
However, in all honesty, here are some counterpoint considerations for you. The early 2007 Dodge with a 6.7L CTD has had its share of issues with the new Bluetec clean diesel technology, especially with the after-treatment and EGR systems. True, some have had no problems, but many have (repetitive check engine lights, many DTC fault codes, PCM reflashes up the whazoo, recalls, O2 sensor/DPF replacements, etc., etc.). The 2007.5 and 2008 Dodges with the 6.7L CTD seem to have had less issues, however, since they are basically identical to the early 2007 model, it is thought that they benefited from the knowledge gained debugging the early 2007 models.
So, if you go after the 2007 Dodge, I would suggest the following (just to be on the safe side):
- Find out the build date (it would be nice if it was a 2007.5).
- Despite the fact that it only has 8000 miles on it, see if you can find out what the maintenance and service record has been.
- Has it undergone the factory G30 Emissions recall work?
- Does it have the latest "AX" PCM flash?
- Has TSB #013-08 been conducted?
With a build date of 4/07, I had had my fair share of issues with my Dodge 3500. However, after getting the latest AX PCM flash in March, followed by TSB #013-08 in June, everything seems to be running in tip-top shape now (with a liberal knock on wood).
Beyond the above, I love my Dodge. The power and torque coming out of the 6.7L CTD is simply awesome. The new 6-speed auto tranny is absolutely great, and the factory exhaust brake is indispensable. I could go on, but it is simply a great truck, especially for hauling a camper (and in my case, mostly off-road). Nothing is perfect and neither is a Dodge, but as long as you don't end up with a lemon you should do just fine.
BTW, as others have mentioned, I believe you should be able to get the slightly used Dodge for less than the $29K they are asking for it (especially in the current buyers market).
Steve_in_29 wrote: If you are going to really use the 4x4 then go with the Dodge as its solid front axle and increased ground clearance will be appreciated in the rough.
I think either one will serve you well.
My research may be outdated, but a GM 4x4 has 9.0" of ground clearance, and Dodge 4x4 has 7.7". Dodges & Fords comes from the factory with a little more body lift than GM, which gives the impression of more clearance.
Still, I think they're all great machines, so pick one you like.
Steve_in_29 wrote: If you are going to really use the 4x4 then go with the Dodge as its solid front axle and increased ground clearance will be appreciated in the rough.
I think either one will serve you well.
My research may be outdated, but a GM 4x4 has 9.0" of ground clearance, and Dodge 4x4 has 7.7". Dodges & Fords comes from the factory with a little more body lift than GM, which gives the impression of more clearance.
Still, I think they're all great machines, so pick one you like.
Sorry but it ISN'T an "impression of more clearance", they actually have more.
The GM's only have more ground clearance (and ONLY at the dif) in a static state. Once you run a tire up on an obstacle the movement of the suspension causes the ground clearance at the dif to decrease, sometimes by quite a bit. I have seen people hit things due to that decrease. On a Dodge or Ford when a tire goes over an obstacle the ground clearance at the dif actually increases as the tire lifts the entire axle up.
It isn't body lift on the Dodge/Fords it is increased suspension height. Which comes in VERY handy for keeping trail obstacles from rearranging your trucks expensive sheetmetal. Stock, my Ford's rocker panels were 20" off the ground at the lowest point.
While the GMs have undeniably the best ride due to their car-like suspensions don't fool yourself that they will go the same places the Dodge/Fords will in stock trim. Especially with GMs new body styling with its ridiculously low (for a 4x4) front bumper fascia.
2007 F350,SC,LB,4x4,6.0/Auto,35" tires,16.5 Warn,Buckstop bumpers
2007 Outfitter Apex9.5,270W solar,SolarBoost2000e,2 H2K's,2KW inverter,2 20lb LP on slide out tray,4 Lifeline AGM bats,Tundra fridge
95 Bounder 28' ClassA sold
91 Jamboree 21' ClassC sold
I just have to put in my 2 cents worth ( if it is in fact worth 2 cents) re: gas vs diesel. True diesel costs more than gas. here it's about 12-15% more--BUT-- it costs a heck of a lot less per mile driven than gas.
This is really an "apples and oranges" deal. With my 01 dodge gasser I was lucky to get 12 mpg with the camper on, and with my 04 CTD I have no problem getting 19 and 20 with the camper on. I have a 6 speed manual and try to keep the rpm's under 2,000 but I drive about the same as I did with the gasser--my habits have not changed.
Diesel is not for everyone. It's a little noisier,harder to find stations. But if you drive enough miles and have enough of a load to haul the extra cost for the diesel motor can pay you back, and the power is awesome.
If you really want to do some research on the Dodge & read the experiences of the 2007 owners of the new Cummins 6.7, might I suggest reading some of the forums at turbodieselregister.com. There are also forums ofr the Duramax and Power Stroke as well.
As a side note, I parked my diesel April 1, Bought a used Honda Insight and now drive it to & work and back each day. I use the diesel only for hauling & camping & boating. At April 1 prices it was saving me $40 per week. Diesel fuel isn't going to get much cheaper anytime soon, not until we build more refineries and update the diesel fuel refining process to the 21st century.
INBellbuoy, wife of 29 yrs, 11 yr old son, & Scruffy the 75 lb Goldendoodle, 2001 Dodge 3500 Quad Cab w/ Rancho 9000's & Firestone Ride-Rite Air Bags, 2005 Lund 1800 Explorer w/ 90 hp Yamaha, 2006 Host Yukon W/ Tent w/80W solar panel & Kipor Generator
Thanks for all of your replies. They really have started the gears turning about what path I should take.
I know a little about diesels as my previous two pickups were GM Diesels (LLY & LBZ) and how difficult it can be to find fuel. I traded the LBZ for my wife's car which gets great fuel economy and bought the current truck to tow the boat and as an occasional driver.
The bad part about the current truck is that it was a farm truck. As such it's been abused - but what did I expect?
Back to the Dodge question. Typically, if I were looking for a GM, I would want a similar truck to the one I have: 1-ton, reg cab, SRW, 4x4. However, Dodge says they don't make one of those. All 1-ton reg cabs are duallies. My last GM was a dually and there were some aspects of it that were a pain in the neck. The cost to replace a fender (fibreglass) was about $700, where the price of a whole new bed (according to a local dealer) was not much more. And then there was the extra cost of buying new tires, loss of fuel economy compared to SRW, etc.
So, I want to stay with the 1-ton, regular cab, SRW, 4x4 concept. It's a lighter truck than ext or quad cabs - and as such should get better fuel economy. And Dodge doesn't make one. The closest thing is the 3/4-ton I test-drove yesterday,
I did see that the Dodge truck I was looking at had that exhaust brake, which was awfully cool! I also definitely noticed the solid front axle and increased ride height compared to GM trucks.
However, I've also had my eye on an old CUCV (GM Military truck - they were ~'84 to '86 model year 1-ton pickups with 6.2L diesels and a TH400). Please don't start on the 6.2L engines being terrible. I've heard it already. There's a place in Wisconsin I think that makes them look and run awfully similarly to when they did when new. They purposefully say they don't "refurbish" or "restore" because these have subjective definitions.
I love that generation of GM pickups and I've been thinking that's probably the only way I'll get one from those model years that is in any reliable shape. I've found out from buying my current truck that it doesn't take much neglect to make a truck unreliable. (I recently had my alternator catch fire - and not due to my own neglect).
I will post a similar question about the CUCV for everyone to give their opinions on.
Thanks and please keep the discussion going.
J
* This post was
edited 07/27/08 08:01am by Silvrwolf *
Tow Vehicle:
- 1989 GMC Sierra 3500, Regular Cab, SRW, 7.4L, TH400, 4x4
Towed Vehicles:
- 2002 Four Winns 225 (boat)
- I used to have a Keystone Raptor 3712TS
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