outdoorsman2007
In the Woods - Somewhere!
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Joined: 04/12/2007
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Look for a natural gas engine for HD towing and hauling in the very near future.
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wilber1
Abbotsford B.C. Canada
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Joined: 12/16/2002
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outdoorsman2007 wrote:Look for a natural gas engine for HD towing and hauling in the very near future.
I don't know.
Liquid natural gas is really only good for fleet operations because it has to lowered to -260 degrees in order to become liquid and therefore must be used fairly rapidly to avoid it blowing off into the atmosphere. Compressed natural gas doesn't give decent range because you can't carry enough to go very far without filling your bed with tanks. A buddy of mine had a Chev 1/2 ton with a 350 on CNG. He couldn't go much more than 100 miles without refueling and eventually converted it back to gasoline.
"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Rob_NC
Walnut Cove, NC
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Joined: 04/17/2007
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david_42 wrote:I figure Ford will write a lot of PR on it and in five years Toyota or Nissan will start selling it.
Not if Ford patents it, afterall, they are funding it.
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mtlogger
Montana
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Joined: 05/26/2008
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wilber1 wrote:outdoorsman2007 wrote:Look for a natural gas engine for HD towing and hauling in the very near future.
I don't know.
Liquid natural gas is really only good for fleet operations because it has to lowered to -260 degrees in order to become liquid and therefore must be used fairly rapidly to avoid it blowing off into the atmosphere. Compressed natural gas doesn't give decent range because you can't carry enough to go very far without filling your bed with tanks. A buddy of mine had a Chev 1/2 ton with a 350 on CNG. He couldn't go much more than 100 miles without refueling and eventually converted it back to gasoline.
I love my CNG conversion but I hate how long it takes to fuel it. Similarly I've had an LP conversion, but now it's hated for high cost of fuel.
The Europeans (read MB, BMW, VW) will be re-intro'ing their diesels next year or so - which will have the advantage over gasoline by 25-30%, but it's the cost of diesel that's holding up sales. My Uni is 52 years old and it gets better mileage pulling 18,000#, than my old F350 (7.3) without a load. It's not about HP, it's about torque.
Matt J - 1956 416 Unimog w/32ft Jamco and two mules; Unimog 1750L camper in Guatemala
Bert - '08 Dakota 4.7, 19ft Airstream
My best friend Wolf died this morning, 16 Nov
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Turtle n Peeps
California
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Joined: 06/23/2008
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I've never seen so many half truths and lie's in a long time!!!
Alky that is mixed with gasloline for 150 octane? What the????
I wish!!!! When I was racing with the stuff it was around 113 to 115 or so. Is this magic alky of some sort??? Maybe they ment 150 proof?? LOL
Using 3 to 5% alky to a tank of gas? Huu???? Alky has very poor B.T.U,s/ gallon rate. And yet this engine is going to get better MPG towing? I want to see that snailed 4 banger go up some of the hills I tow at using 3 to 5% alky!!! The boost will be maxed out for minutes at a time and that thing will be drinking more alky than when I was in college!!
In a car, sure!! Sort of like a high boost Grand National.
Replacing a diesel, absurd.
~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~
"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"
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dragr1
Alabama
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Joined: 08/14/2005
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Interesting concept. I hope it works out, but that's a ton of stress on an engine under load. Could it last 300k+ miles? That's what I've always easily gotten out of my gas pickups.
1991 Allegro M31 Basement
1985 4Runner Rockcrawler
2000 Suburban 2500 4x4
2007 Toyota Tacoma Crew Cab TRD 4x4
2002 Lexus IS300
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JPhelps
SE of Monkeys Eyebrow & Possum Trot
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Joined: 10/01/2002
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Magic, smoke and mirrors, etc.
They can only get so much power of of so many BTU's and their solution isn't magic.
The only way they can make their dreams come true is if they convert half of the wasted heat that goes out the cooling system into power.
Everyone else that builds internal combustion engines is trying to to that too.
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wilber1
Abbotsford B.C. Canada
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Joined: 12/16/2002
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mtlogger wrote:wilber1 wrote:outdoorsman2007 wrote:Look for a natural gas engine for HD towing and hauling in the very near future.
I don't know.
Liquid natural gas is really only good for fleet operations because it has to lowered to -260 degrees in order to become liquid and therefore must be used fairly rapidly to avoid it blowing off into the atmosphere. Compressed natural gas doesn't give decent range because you can't carry enough to go very far without filling your bed with tanks. A buddy of mine had a Chev 1/2 ton with a 350 on CNG. He couldn't go much more than 100 miles without refueling and eventually converted it back to gasoline.
I love my CNG conversion but I hate how long it takes to fuel it. Similarly I've had an LP conversion, but now it's hated for high cost of fuel.
The Europeans (read MB, BMW, VW) will be re-intro'ing their diesels next year or so - which will have the advantage over gasoline by 25-30%, but it's the cost of diesel that's holding up sales. My Uni is 52 years old and it gets better mileage pulling 18,000#, than my old F350 (7.3) without a load. It's not about HP, it's about torque.
You have a Unimog? Cool. We met a German couple in Newfoundland last summer who were going around the world (slowly) in a camperized Bremach.
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m37charlie
Anchorage, Alaska
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Joined: 06/05/2007
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A company in Vancouver BC named Westport Innovations has designed technology for diesels to run on LNG (with a small "pilot squirt" of diesel). Preserving the diesel cycle, no spark plugs, no fuel injection till TDC which preserves efficiency and allows much higher torque output than a same sized Otto cycle engine with lower compression ratio and throttling losses.
This type of engine might be seen a lot in fleets that can refuel every day or two at the same site; like busses, port haul trucks etc. The Port of LA/Long Beach is thinking about repowering with 17000 of them.
LNG is currently much cheaper than diesel fuel per unit of energy.
BTW, my Unimog, with ~26000 lb GVW gets measurably better mileage (9 mpg)than 17000 lb loaded F550s with the 6.0/6.4 family (I've heard down to 6.5 mpg on the Dieselstop forum). Some diesels seem to be more efficient than others. The thermodynamic efficiency of the Mercedes 900 series diesels is 46% at 1600 rpm. Detroit Diesel?Mercedes have upped that by 4-5% on their DD15 engine by using turbo-compounding (mechanical linkage of turbo to flywheel, extracting more heat out of the exhaust).
Charlie
* This post was
edited 07/28/08 10:26pm by m37charlie *
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RobertRyan
Australia
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Joined: 03/16/2008
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Quote:A company in Vancouver BC named Westport Innovations has designed technology for diesels to run on LNG (with a small "pilot squirt" of diesel). Preserving the diesel cycle, no spark plugs, no fuel injection till TDC which preserves efficiency and allows much higher torque output than a same sized Otto cycle engine with lower compression ratio and throttling losses
Several In Australia are doing similar things.
http://www.dieselgas.com.au/home.htm
http://www.gastek.com.au/cgi-bin/engine.pl?Page=page.html&Rec=9
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