Hannibal wrote: You hairy chested overly endowed diesel men shouldn't be so sensitive to the minivan affection-ado's inconsequential boasts of self endearing towing accomplishments. It makes you appear even more insecure.
hahahahhahahhaa! exactly!
This is probably generalizing, but regardless of what the TV is, I think the biggest dangers are driving too fast while towing, and driving beyond the safety margins of one's TV/Trailer setup.
I don't care if it's a diesel one ton or a Freestar van pulling a trailer, it's those Bozo's that pass me on the interstate/freeway/turnpike that are pulling trailer at 70+ mph in the middle or fast lane.
I don't care if I'm towing a popup or a 10,000 lb. TT as I have currently, I set the cruise at 55 mph, set the Tow/Haul, and plant myself in the right-most lane. I rarely venture into the other lanes unless their is an extremely slow vehicle or there is some crazy exiting, and entering happening at an interchange in the highway, and then I momentarily go left to get around that stuff.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, I used to two a fairly heavy Popup with a 92 Astro Mini-van, and it was quite a capable TV. I did however have reliability issues with my Astro, as it was the first year they offered the Votec 4.3 V6, and it had nothing but engine problems centering around the Computer. Had to finally "chuck" the Astro, as even GM couldn't figure out how to troubleshoot the problems, nor some good local repair shops. Spider harness problems were a real Bugaboo, and pretty scarey while towing.
Anyway, let's face it folks, if our Trailer or whatever we are towing decides to do a "dance" or "death wobble" or some unexpected handling problem, we've got a handful to deal with whether we are towing with a Mini Van or a Diesel like I own.
I think that the rule of thumb is that as your TV get's heavier and larger, maybe your load you tow can be marginally larger, like a ratio of sorts.
I would have never considered towing a big old hard sided TT with my Astro, unless it weighed in the 3,000 pound class, and I think most Mini Van ownwers realize that is pretty level-headed.
The name of the game basically is, don't let the tail whip the dog, or don't let what your towing "call the shots" and make your TV a tentative thing that makes you nervous to use or drive. If your trailer; popup, or TT, or 5th can easily make your TV feel unsteady with any little "hiccup", be it wind, a quick lane change, undulations in the road surface, etc.., then maybe one is running too marginal, regardless of the tow police rules.
One should tow without perspiring throughout the whole trip. Towing should be a relaxing experience, yet one must be more alert than if they were driving "not towing".
Regards, Eightballsidepocket
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT 4x2 Quad Cab, Cummins, 48RE Tranny, Lg Bed, Line-X Spray-on Bed Liner.
06 T25BS Komfort Trailblazer TT
"If you can't say it in person, it isn't worth saying while hiding behind an anonymous P.C.!"
For those who have been here awhile you will remember that there are some on the thread who stated that a mini van is safer than an Excursion in an accident....go figure LOL
rsh_757 wrote: I am with Will on all of this. He wasn't doing any bashing. I like him read the OP and the title of the thread and felt compelled to put in my worthless opinion. "Revenge of the minivan?". Come on.. Through the pages of this thread you would think that towing with a vehicle that is designed to do the job is some sort of disadvantage. Don't blame those who can afford more RV or choose a situation that is more appealing to our version of relaxation. Who cares how the other guy does it? Not me for one. I think it is great the guest finds happiness in his method of RV'ing, but that doesn't work for me, my kids or my wife who has shared many personal moments in a tent. Will is right, try that with a herd of kids.
I go dry camping maybe 3 times a year, the rest of the 20 are spent in parking lots with hookups and no privacy. You can be assured that in those situations I am going to do it in comfort and relax. If that method means I need a truck that is capable of mass hauling, then so be it, it is certainly my choice just like Guest chooses to use a minivan and brag about his mileage along with how much money it saves him. Then the minivan kings chime in with why it is so much better than towing with a full size vehicle built to do the job and this place can be guaranteed fireworks.
Thank you, RSH_757. Glad to see there are some that see this thread for exactly what it is. A minivan owner starts a thread to do nothing but gloat about their mileage advantage, yet as soon as someone like you or I come on and talk about the advantages to our rigs, now WE are the ones bashing???? Seems like a serious case of 'hello, pot, meet kettle'. We weren't the ones that STARTED a thread, just to gloat. Remember that.
Anyway, I could respond back to Guest's responses to the questions I put up, but its really pointless now. Hahaha, this has become like debating politics, nobody is going to change anybody's opinions/beliefs, so there's no point in debating it further. Guest has his reasons to camp like he does, and I'm glad it works for him. Likewise, I have my reasons for camping the way I do. We all have our reasons why what we do works best for us. Its all good.
Now, lets quit wasting server space beating this dead horse, and move on to more important topics...Like maybe, what to plan for the next camping trip? Margarita mix, or beer? Or both?? Steaks, or hamburgers to cook on the grill? Head to the mountains, or the beach? Decisions, decisions.
Will & Angela
2 wonderful children that love camping, Stephen & Allison
2003 Ford Excursion V10 4x4
2003 Thor Citation 33M, Hensley Arrow hitch, Brakesmart Brake Control
(wanna see? Here is a picture of it )
concretecamper wrote: For those who have been here awhile you will remember that there are some on the thread who stated that a mini van is safer than an Excursion in an accident....go figure LOL
The mini van vs SUV war continues......
Actually, I think the minivan is safer than a full sized Ex in an accident according to deaths per mile driven. I believe full sized cars are the safest, mainly because of the demographic that drives them.
I know the information is out there, but it is too early in the morning to look for it.
Revenge: the act of revenging; retaliation for injuries or wrongs; vengeance.
Let's move on to discuss what perceived wrongs prompt this need for revenge. I confess that a few times in my life I've asked friends to just put me down if they ever see me driving a minivan.
So I may be part of the problem.
Surveyor SV-234 >Equalizer> H3
Previously a fiver crew.
Without fail....mind you and I repeat...without fail...the usual suspects steer innumerable topics into what's a better tow vehicle...front wheel drive MiniVans versus the rest of the world, or at least full size pickups.
In this case, it was clear that we would probably end up with almost 14+ pages of posts defending, both MiniVans and Pickups as the OP indicated that his Honda van could tow a 12 foot trailer quite nicely, albeit with downshifting and running premium gas.
I used to jump into the fray with both feet, but no more. I'm content just to read. Most of the time.
I will say this. Pickups are vehicles primarily designed to tote cargo and tow. They are in a word....trucks.
FWD MiniVans are designed primarily as people carriers. They are in a word(s)....people carriers.
Like all vehicles, both pickups and MiniVans can be pressed into other service, but it is generally a compromise, doing other than what they were primarily designed to do well.
Les
eightballsidepocket wrote: The name of the game basically is, don't let the tail whip the dog, or don't let what your towing "call the shots" and make your TV a tentative thing that makes you nervous to use or drive. If your trailer; popup, or TT, or 5th can easily make your TV feel unsteady with any little "hiccup", be it wind, a quick lane change, undulations in the road surface, etc.., then maybe one is running too marginal, regardless of the tow police rules.
I couldn't agree more, which is why I'm so passionate about the minivan's hidden towing potential. Of all the vehicles I've driven and towed with (and believe me it's been A LOT) this newer minivan has them beat hands down. I wouldn't have believed it myself until I tried, but it's true.
Lumping all FWD minivans into a catagory and saying it's "Level-headed" to call them non-tow vehicles or limiting them to only the smallest of trailers is destructive and naive. Not trying to offend, but this general attitude is what gets the minivan (and car) owners wound up because we know what we are doing and we know what is possible with a little education and engineering.
Sure, many of the FWD minivans of the past were poor tow vehicles, but it just isn't true anymore and people deserve to know that practical, economical safe alternatives exist that just about anyone can afford to get camping. This information is useful, and has helped hundreds if not thousands of newbies curious how they can get out of the house.
Don't believe me? Look at how many people read this thread and didn't reply (2,369 as of this post). I get emails and PMs almost every day from people who don't post, but find my threads helpful and informative.
Just yesterday I got an email from an anonymous guest who owned an F350 and was interested to hear about how his wife's minivan could replace it for towing a small ultralight TT. Gas prices are up, and his truck is grossly over-sized for the trailer. This is a common theme, even if not on this forum where "Bigger is Better" rules. I gave him some tips on how to setup the van for a test run, and offered some first-hand experience what he can expect. He was polite and thankful, I expect to hear back sometime, most who send me messages do eventually get back to me even if it's a negative report.
So even if you disagree with the content of message in these posts, try to remember that someone might be getting useful information even if they choose not to register and post.
'04 Ford Freestar (Primary tow vehicle) '05 Subaru Forester (Backup tow vehicle) '65 Bethany popup (best popups ever made!) Looking for a tow vehicle Minivan towing
Caddywhompus... that's why I put you on my friends list. I like to keep track of what you are up to. I find your comments very informative and regard you as one of the more practical contributors out here. OTOH, the "chest thumping" I can find anywhere else, if it were to interest me. Keep up the good work!
This is my first post here.
Since this seems to be the "minivan thread", thought I would add mine to the list. Been towing a 1963 Yellowstone "Canned Ham" trailer with the 1995 Quest since we got the Quest new. We now have 150,000 miles. We only go camping 2 weeks a year, so I can't jusify spending $70,000 or so to camp in "comfort". The trailer was free, and it keeps us dry and comfee compared to the tent we used to camp in!
I was not set up properly for towing for many years, so we only went camping for relatively short distances. Last year, we joined the Tin Can Tourist vintage trailer association. Since the yearly meet was in MI, (long trip) we added a brake controller and LD/anti-sway hitch, before attending. The difference is night and day, and now it's a real pleasure to tow.
* This post was
edited 08/05/08 06:14pm by quark *
This is my first post here.
Since this seems to be the "minivan thread", thought I would add mine to the list. Been towing a 1963 Yellowstone "Canned Ham" trailer with the 1995 Quest since we got the Quest new. We now have 150,000 miles. We only go camping 2 weeks a year, so I can't jusify spending $70,000 or so to camp in "comfort". The trailer was free, and it keeps us dry and comfee compared to the tent we used to camp in!
I was not set up properly for towing for many years, so we only went camping for relatively short distances. Last year, we joined the Tin Can Tourist vintage trailer association. Since the yearly meet was in MI, (long trip) we added a brake controller and LD/anti-sway hitch, before attending. The difference is night and day, and now it's a real pleasure to tow.
Well, a "Happy and safe Camping to you!". Ain't it great to get out there and away from home even if we can only do a couple times a year?
I totally understand as we must budget in our vacations carefully.
High gas prices or not.......we try to get that vacation time the best we can.
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