When people talk about the cost of fuel, be it gas or diesel, were not talking about which has the most energy in it, or which type of engine powered vehicle gets the best fuel mileage.
Were talking about how much it costs to buy the fuel per gallon.
That's how its priced, not by the mile, that would mean nothing, not all gas or diesel vehicles get the same mileage, or can move the same number of people.
It sound like your either trying to reinvent the wheel, or just be argumentative.
Most people on this site know that diesel contains more energy than gasoline, and gas more than LPG, so what are you proposing, that fuel be sold by its BTU content? That's how its priced now, but its sold by the gallon, and will remain that way.
2001 27' Four Winds Class-C E-450 V-10.
Buick Park Ave Ultra, Ford Ranger PU, JD 500 backhoe.
1941 Farm All "A"
Going by engine size, if you had say a Dodge 2500 pickup with a 5.9 gas V8 and another 2500 Dodge pickup, exactly the same, except with the 5.9 diesel, both with the same transmission type and tire sizes and each with an axle ratio that optimizes the engine's power curve (say 3.73 for the diesel and 4.10 for the gasser), both towing the same trailer that is within the towing capabilities of both trucks (say 7000 lbs for aguement).
I would surmise that the diesel truck will get 5 mpg better mileage than the gasser while towing that trailer (say 10mpg for the gasser vs 15 mpg for the diesel).
So if the diesel is getting 5 mpg better mileage, but the fuel is costing $1 more per gallon, a 500 mile trip cost the gasser 50 gallons at 10 mpg and $4 a gallon = $200 for the trip.
The same 500 mile trip cost the diesel 33.33 gallons at 15 mpg and $5 a gallon = $166.67 for the trip.
Using different numbers, say the diesel only gets 14 mpg and the gasser gets 11 mpg and say diesel is only 80 cents more a gallon...
Gasser: 500 mile trip at 11 mpg = 45.45 gallons and $4 a gallon = $181.81 for the trip.
Diesel: 500 mile trip at 14 mpg = 35.71 gallons and $4.80 a gallon = $171.43 for the trip.
Now cost of ownership. Say the diesel engine option cost $5000 more at time of purchase (which it may have back when Dodge was using both the 5.9 Cummins diesel and 5.9 Magnum gasser in the 2500 trucks). Say you bought the truck on a 5 year loan with 0% interest rate financing (which was being offered around then at times). So say the Magnum truck cost $25,000 and the Cummins truck cost $30,000. Over 5 years, the per year pay out would be $5000 for the Magnum and $6000 for the Cummins, a difference in yearly purchase cost of $1000.
Say you drove each truck 20,000 miles per year in mixed driving and got a total average city/highway/towing/unloaded mileage of 13 mpg for the gasser and 16 mpg for the diesel. So that's 1538.46 gallons of gasoline and 1250 gallons of diesel per year. 1538 x $4/gal = $6152 per year for gasoline. 1250 x $4.80/gal = $6000 per year for diesel.
So you saved $152 per year driving the diesel. However, you spent $1000 more per year to buy the diesel. So, the diesel cost $848 more per year to operate than the gasser for overall use of the vehicle, using the mileage and cost/gallon numbers I plugged in.
Back then however (late 90's early 00's), diesel was cheaper than gas, say by 20 cents per gallon.
Using prices from back then, say $2.20/gal for gas and $2.00/gal for diesel, 1538 gal x $2.20 = $3383 per year for gasoline and 1250 gal x $2.00 = $2500 per year for diesel. So using diesel saved $883 per year in fuel, but the diesel engine cost $1000 per year more to buy, so the diesel still cost $117 more per year than the gasser.
* This post was
edited 08/02/08 01:29pm by SoCalDesertRider *
There is no way around it, diesel IS more expensive, yet a LOT CHEAPER to produce than gas. And, don't buy into the******they are selling about ULSD being the cause of the price increase. That is nothing but B.S.!!!!
Based on FlyingJ's website
Sample:
Prices current as of 6am August 02, 2008 MT Regular Unleaded Unleaded Plus Premium Unleaded Car/RV
Diesel Propane***
Herculez wrote: I really did not want to get in to this but I love Facts.
In our parts business we deliver with 2 vans.
Chevy express vans same year 3/4 ton. One is Gas one is Diesel Duramax.
I am rounding numbers to make it easy.
Both 30 galllon tanks.
Gas van loaded same weight cargo. 13 MPG
Diesel. 19 MPG
Gas Mile range on 30 gallons 390 miles
Diesel range 570 miles
Gas cost per gallon 3.75
Diesel 4.75
It is costing us 30.00 (to fill it up) more dollars on the diesel to go 180 miles further.
It will cost us $51.94 dollars more to go the same distance in the gas van as we can go in the diesel.
So the diesel is cheaper for us to run than the gas van.
When empty (no cargo) the diesel has even higher numbers then the gas van with no cargo.
Please note I am only talking about Fuel miliage.
Also note that in our area diesel does not cost a dollar more per gallon.
Please check my numbers.
Disclamer: This is based on my vehicles and not yours. You may have a Gas truck that gets 50 mpg and a diesel that gets 2 mpg.
Britt
PS, We fill both vans up twice a week. ##@@%%$$
Hey Herc,
Do you know the price difference between the two trucks? Looks like you have very good fuel data and one more input (purchase cost) would be the clincher.
And one other minor thing, assuming your doing the Mfg recommended maintenance when recommended to both vehicles, I believe the diesel will have cost more by the end of the first 100,000 miles.
Keep in mind that we were only talking about the COST of fuel...but if you would like to talk about up keep.
The only thing that cost more on a regular basis is up keep ... the cost on a oil change.....on a diesel..but you guys know that.....but you guy also know that you can drive much further with a diesel than a gaser for the oil change.
Those that say diesel cost more are being funny!!!
How about those tune ups on the deisels? You know the spark plugs, wires, caps and exct.
I am not pro diesel, I also like gasers and deliver with several...Like our astro van.
I also have all the bills, because we have to keep them for taxes...you know that.
Lets see, The dodge 1 ton going on 300,000.00 thousand miles diesel. The astro with 200,000.00 thousand with a New engine...should I also say transmission...tune ups. The dodge with the Same engine that did cost more up front but the astro has now past it in cost.
How about my 1983 Toyota truck Gas.....it is the winner same engine, same transmission going on 300,000.00 thousand miles.
One problem with the toyota...I can't find a hitch to go into the bed that can haul 18,000.00lbs of wheel weights.
Y'all that keep mentioning upfront costs for diesels are also not taking into account that the diesel truck's value will be more when sold or traded in. For example, from the Kelly Blue Book site, a 2500HD with 8.1 is trade-in value of $11,660. Same exact options but with the Duramax engine is $16,650.
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