We recently sold our 2001 Jayco Kiwi 23B HTT. We liked the trailer in many ways,but I wasn't thrilled with its construction,and didn't like pulling a largish(in my eyes) travel trailer. It wasn't the weight,but the physical size that I didn't care for. We would like to get another camper,and I am sort of leaning towards a nice pop-up to replace the HTT. What are your thoughts on such a move? Can a nicer PUP be as accomadating as a HTT? I have looked at a couple of new Pup's,and ones with the cassette potty,and shower seem real nice,but one of the Rockwoods I looked at required you have a separate tank to catch the water from the sink,and shower unless you have sewerage on site. Does any company make pup's with holding tanks for the gray water? Can anyone recommend a good well equipped pup used maybe a couple years old that may be affordable? Is a cassette potty a pain in the butt to empty a couple of times a week if camping for extended times? Hows is towing one of these larger rigs with showers,etc? I imagine it must be easier with out the large mass of air you need to move with a TT. What are your thoughts on roofing materials? Is the one piece plastic good,or is an aluminum unit better?
We have two young kids(2-6 boys),and we only camp maybe 14-20 days a year,so the idea of having something that isn't huge in the driveway,and behind my van when we do this is appealing. Is the Fleetwood brand a good name? I ask because I have seen both them,and Rockwoods,and the Fleetwood seemed way nicer,but also way more expensive. How about highwall pup's? I have heard different things about them. One was that if you are spending that kind of money why not buy a HTT,and the other bad thing was I hear they are hard to set up due to their heights(not an issue for me a 6'-1" I bet).
Sorry for the long post,and I am sure I have more questions.
Keep in mind on board holding tanks would be a pain for extended camping without hookups. To empty at a dump station you would have to collapse everything to move it.
I just camped with my 3 granddaughters last week in our little Starcraft. They filled the cassette toilet up in 4 days. It was easy to clean, but not as easy as pulling the lever on our tt.
I didn't have any trouble setting up because my 6'2" grandson drove down to do it for me. I do need a step stool to reach up to zip and unzip the windows.
If you are thinking about getting a pup, be sure to get one with the dinette slide, so much more walking space.
Our starcraft 2409 has the cassette potty in it, on our recient trip to Texas I had to empty it twice in 10 days, it is not bad to empty, and that was with our niece and nephew using the potty about every 30 min for 3-4 of the days because they thought it was cool. I use a 6 gallon jug to drain my sink water into and have to dump it about every 4 days if we are liberal with the water. one or two showers and the jug is full as well. Some of the highwall units have onboard grey water tanks, the Fleetwood Avalon and Starstream both have large tanks (20 gal +). Some of the others dual axle units only seem to have a 6 gal tank.
Comments from a current PUP owner whose last rig was a 27ft. TT:
1. In my experience PUP's tend to hold their value much better than TT's, and are not always cheaper than TT's (used)
2. IMO they are not a step down at all compared to a TT - I like them better
3. Cassette toilets work well and have plenty of capacity
4. Yes, PUP's can be very comfortable
5. Gray Water: You can run a hose to the sewer connection, or I also have a short hose and just use a bucket when I can't run directly to a sewer connection
6. Towing: Compared to a TT, it's a pleasure...
7. Roofs: When I cut out a section for my AC, I found the roof was a sandwich of aluminum structural foam and aluminum. Seemed very strong - I could not even flex it with my hands at all.
8. As a highwall owner, what you have heard is wrong IMO. The main advantage is less setup and take down and higher counters. Still way easier to tow vs. a HTT ot TT.
I forgot to mention that we would almost always get a full hookup site when we went camping for our week long trip mid-summer. We wouldn't always get a full hook-up with the sewer connection for weekend trips. If we continued to do this I don't see it as being a problem even without a full hook-up,but I thought I would ask the questions anyway.
I love the idea of towing a unit that wasn't quite like a sail behind my van. What year did the first HW units start to appear? What sort of money are we looking at for a nice 3-4 year old pup with a shower/toilet?
We had a PUP with the cassette and shower. We now have a TT with holding tanks, albeit small ones. I used six gallon Aquatainers from Walmart as holding tanks for the PUP and still use them to drain off grey water if we aren't using a site with sewer. I found the cassette easy and fairly sanitary to use. Two adults and two kids would fill it in four days or so, then you open the door, unhook the latch, slide the cassette out, take it to the dump station and dump it, add a little of the blue stuff, and put it back. No mess, no odor. As noted, the sink container would go several days if we were conservative with water. I could take three showers with less than six gallons, DW about two. I would get a PUP with king beds and a dinette slide...you will have lots of room.
Pros to PUPs: less effort towing, less hassle storing, closer to nature, can use smaller, more remote sites.
Cons: harder to set up, got to set up at home if it was closed in the rain or you need to get in and out, harder to back than a longer TT.
We paid $7500 for a 04 Fleetwood Westlake in March 07 and got $7500 for it when we traded it in November 07.
My$0.02worth.
I had the same experience with my Starcraft: used it 2 years and sold it for the same amount I bought it for. On top of that I sold it in less than a week - and that was when gas was relatively cheap compared to today.
Oh yeah I wanted to ask if these pups are better for traveling in that the walls are way shorter than a TT,and therefore vibrations may wear on the structure less? Does this make sense? Would the roof take a bit less abuse by not being totally attached to the main structure as well?
Our first trailer was a 96 Jayco Eagle 10UD pup,and I remember there were things I liked,and didn't like about it,but I am not sure what they were now.
I think the first highwall was my 2004 Fleetwood Hemlock, I have the cassette toilet and would not trade it for anything..throw it in the truck, drive to the dump station ,take it the top off, dump it, put water and chemical back in, take back to camper, lots less trouble than breaking in down. I use a blue boy for my grey water, not too much trouble there either, I love my pup, and this board!
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