Ford has an agreement with Navstar for a certain number of engines and number of years. My guess after reading this artical is that the agreement must end in 2010 or perhaps next year?
Ford makes many times more diesel engines that Navistar.
Ford makes many diesel powered cars in Europe. They even make a van just like the Dodge Sprinter van, it is called the Ford Transit. It comes with both gas and diesel engines. Who knows, Ford might start building their German cars over here. I would certainlly buy one if it gets 35 MPG and I can pull it behind my motorhome without extensive modifications.
Fred.
Money can't buy happiness but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche or Country Coach!
Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote: Sorry I disagree, Chrysler can go from drawing board to production in less then 3 years. In Europe the Dodge Caliber gets a diesel engine that makes 60 MPG or so I was told it is more our Government and the EPA regs here that are killing us. Do you really think the Feds what to see fuel mileage go up, that would be less taxes they collect and we know that’s not going to happen.
And 3 years ago:
- oil was $50 a barrel,
- trucks outsold cars
- gas was $2.25/gallon (rose to $3/gallon after Katrina) and people still didn't drive any less despite a 33% increase in the price of fuel
3 years from now, we'll have:
- a lot more diesels
- a lot more small European cars here (takes time to get them to meet US standards)
- a lot more hybrids
- cars will outsell trucks by a large margin
Also remember...the gas taxes we pay are the lowest for a Western (modern) culture.
Golden_HVAC wrote:
Ford makes many diesel powered cars in Europe. They even make a van just like the Dodge Sprinter van, it is called the Ford Transit. It comes with both gas and diesel engines. Who knows, Ford might start building their German cars over here. I would certainlly buy one if it gets 35 MPG and I can pull it behind my motorhome without extensive modifications.
Ford has already announced the transit will come here. They also announced that their European offerings - well regarded in Europe - will be coming as well.
On the GM side, Saturn is already bringing over European cars, largely unchanged.
Dodge's problem right now is, they sell very, very few cars outside of the United States. So while GM and Ford have small, efficient offerings in Europe and other markets that can be engineered to meet US standards, Dodge doesn't really have much to bring over. The cars they sell in Europe and elsewhere are largely designed for American roads, and they simply aren't competitive in other markets.
Quote: Dodge's problem right now is, they sell very, very few cars outside of the United States. So while GM and Ford have small, efficient offerings in Europe and other markets that can be engineered to meet US standards, Dodge doesn't really have much to bring over. The cars they sell in Europe and elsewhere are largely designed for American roads, and they simply aren't competitive in other markets.
Hence Nissan supplying a version of the Versa to Chrysler as part of the Ram/Titan deal. Dodge does not have a product like the Versa, Aveo, Yaris, and so on to be ready to sell in the US market. Ford is due to bring over their small Mazda based compact, I think it is called the Verve, in the next year or so.
Quote: Dodge's problem right now is, they sell very, very few cars outside of the United States. So while GM and Ford have small, efficient offerings in Europe and other markets that can be engineered to meet US standards, Dodge doesn't really have much to bring over. The cars they sell in Europe and elsewhere are largely designed for American roads, and they simply aren't competitive in other markets.
Hence Nissan supplying a version of the Versa to Chrysler as part of the Ram/Titan deal. Dodge does not have a product like the Versa, Aveo, Yaris, and so on to be ready to sell in the US market. Ford is due to bring over their small Mazda based compact, I think it is called the Verve, in the next year or so.
While that is a good start, Chrysler needs to revamp other car lines as well to improve economy. They need to manufacture multiple cars that get 30 mpg highway or better instead of just the two they have now which are essentially the same vehicle, Avenger/Sebring.
Again, way off topic and I apologize.
2005 Surveyor SV-291 Tows smooth as silk!
1995 Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie SLT 4x4 5.9L V8 low miles, It ain't pretty, but it's paid for!
no_bytes wrote: I just don't want fuel economy to become the main focus on something like the 3/4 tons and 1 tons, these vehicles are made for a specific reason NOT FOR FUEL ECONOMY. Yes, fuel economy should be a considering factor, but don't sacrifice the capability of a work horse for mpg's. I would rather have a little bigger fuel bill then a broken down truck with a bigger repair bill. If fuel economy was my major concern I would be driving a minivan and towing a PUP.
I disagree with this. From your perspective as a RV tower you might not see them as being made for fuel economy, but ask a hotshotter and he'll tell you that's exactly why he bought his diesel. Why do you think semi's are diesel powered? OTR truck manufacturers could certainly build a gas powered truck that would pull as well as a diesel, but they couldn't do it with any kind of decent gas mileage. Most RVer's don't realize it because they have a narrow use for their truck, but many of us actually use these trucks as they were intended, which is putting a lot of miles on them towing. In my opinion most RVer's don't use their diesels for what they were meant, they put 5-10K a year of them and they sit the rest of the time. My own 98.5 dodge diesel has 340,000 miles on it and gets 21-22 mpg highway. Since I bought it new I've spent more money on diesel fuel than I did on the truck itself. I can assure you that fuel mileage matters to me just as it does to any hotshotter or OTR trucker. A friend of mine owns a trucking company, you wouldn't believe the extremes he's going to to get his drivers to save an extra .1 mpg. My truck has a 235 hp/460 tq cummins and it gets used occasionally pulling more weight than most on this forum would be comfortable with. Sure, a 350/650 version might get off the line faster, but it's not going to pull it any better, that's a function of the truck itself. These higher horsepower motors are for bragging rights but anyone who thinks the old 235/460 motors won't pull is fooling themselves.
My personal opinion is that it's the RV world that doesn't use these trucks as they're designed. Those that truly do use diesels for what they were meant for make a living with their trucks, they're the farmers and hotshotters and I can assure you that fuel mileage matters very much to them.
GaryC excellent point, and its very true. Fuel mileage does matter for me. I don't believe in or use any form of Gadgets, I have excellent HP and Torq. However with all this EPA garbage, which doesn't work except to waste fuel. If we could keep the Government out of building Truck, I think the fuel mileage of the Duramax would be over 20+ MPG. The environmental wacko's which are in the minority are telling the majority what to do. Its crazy, the Tree Huggers are killing this country with all this emissions crap. GBY....
no_bytes wrote: The truck/engine combinations the big 3 are putting out now get GREAT MPG, heads and shoulders above the combinations they put out just 5 years ago.
Sorry, but in the area of Diesel engines, this is false. The current Dodge/Cummins can't even compare to the more fuel efficient Dodge/Cummins engines of the mid 90s to early 2000s. Sure they are more powerful, but many of us miss the days of a diesel pickup getting 20 mpg or more on the highway.
Never have understood the obsession with horsepower and torque. My old 89 Dodge diesel got better mileage than anything they've built since. I got 23mpg on open highway - and we have lots of that here. 18 towing the Airstream.
Wolf
Home 56.16°N -96.9°W ~ Wall 12 man and Eureka 6 man Egyptian cotton tent ~ Winter S/V Porque No 7.25°N -80.8°W //Mitakuye oyasin!
Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote: Sorry I disagree, Chrysler can go from drawing board to production in less then 3 years. In Europe the Dodge Caliber gets a diesel engine that makes 60 MPG or so I was told it is more our Government and the EPA regs here that are killing us. Do you really think the Feds what to see fuel mileage go up, that would be less taxes they collect and we know that’s not going to happen.
Got or gas bill (natural gas for the house) and our budget went form $106.00 a month to $158.00 a month! Don’t see any end to this anytime to soon. Don
In EU - Chrysler has a half dozen models that are only available with diesel engines and they sell everything they can mfgr. Your EPA is filled with tree and bunny huggers since Jimmy Carter was President. They are retiring now with fat pension checks and the next generation has filled their shoes. Does your govt want vehicles to get better mileage? I doubt it. They want you to move back into the inner cities, take public transportation and live the way they want you to live.
Mind you Carter was the President who installed solar panels on the roof of the White House. IMHO - He was and still is the only responsible adult in that position of authority. Remember the 55/65 limits - why not now? Btw Reagan was President one week when he had the panels dismantled and removed.
In Central America, where gasoline sold for $5.60/gal this month, people are converting to LP gas which sells for half that amount. So it doesn't get good mileage - but for half the cost, it's worth converting.
Mind you Carter was the President who installed solar panels on the roof of the White House. IMHO - He was and still is the only responsible adult in that position of authority. Remember the 55/65 limits - why not now? Btw Reagan was President one week when he had the panels dismantled and removed.
Stagflation, sky-high interest rates, a goofy brother and a foreign policy that amounted to the words "Doormat" written on his forehead will ultimately be how Carter's term will be remembered.
With BOTH gas and diesel engines now required to meet certain emmision standards the MPG's are getting closer and closer. Sort of makes comparing diesels of 10 years ago with gas engines like comparing apples and oranges. Gas engines have always been required to meet stricter emmision standards (that's changing). That has been a big contributor to diesel getting 50% better gas mileage. The playing field is leveling in the light duty truck arena.
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