The quote regarding Question 4 makes no mention of certified anything. It says "structurally modified," it does not say by whom. Most of what you have cited above pertains to a vehicle that has been modified to make it more accessible to a disabled person, such as by the addition of ramps or lifts which could detract from the vehicles otherwise stated load capacity, rather than having been modified to handle weights in excess of its oem sticker, which is what is addressed in the following quote:
"Question 4: If a vehicle with a manufacturer's GVWR of less than 10,001 pounds has been structurally modified to carry a heavier load, may an enforcement officer use the higher actual gross weight of the vehicle, instead of the GVWR, to determine the applicability of the FMCSRs?
Guidance: Yes. The motor carrier's intent to increase the weight rating is shown by the structural modifications. When the vehicle is used to perform functions normally performed by a vehicle with a higher GVWR, ยง390.33 allows an enforcement officer to treat the actual gross weight as the GVWR of the modified vehicle."
Again, it specifically applies to motor carriers, rather than RVers. My only claim is that if the reg. "...allows an enforcement officer to treat the actual gross weight as the GVWR of the modified vehicle" which it obviously does, it might possibly be construed to apply to any vehicle that has been so modified and be an affirmative defense in the event one was called for.
The GCWR rating is for performance comparison and because we have stupid people among us---lets say your truck is rated to tow 6000 lbs and your trailer is 5000 lbs but now you want to take your 3000 lb mother it law== well if you put her in the trailer it is over your tow limits so I know you put her in the bed of your truck but wait you are still pulling 9000 lbs with the truck --you see they have to do something so people know that when they tow near the limits and if they put a alot of weight in the truck too it will put a strain on the vehicle since it can handle only so much weight---so the heavier the trailer the less that can go in the truck--tow a light trailer you can put a whole bunch of stuff in the truck---it is a way of adding up all the weight in and out of the truck so the manufactor can say this is what it can do cause we got stupid people amoung us that cant figure it out for themselves and they have to spell it out---most people with common sense will know if they tow near the limits their vehicle is rated for they cant put 10 friends in the caband expect it to run good but if tommorrow they tow a row boat and it weighs 500 lbs now they can now take 10 friends in the cab -----your GVWR and tow rating and tire ratings are the important numbers----dont overload your vehicle and dont tow more then its rated for (preferably only 80 percent of that number) and dont overload your tires and usually the other numbers will fall in line------it is sort of like the same reason MH's have the warning to not leave the drivers seat while moving????????????
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mecreature wrote: I would much rather use my GCWR then use outdoorsmans formula...
Then do so. You really can't go too wrong by choosing to adhere to the GCWR. It won't hurt any, it just may not help if you don't pay attention to ALL the other factors that make for a safe towing experience.
People need to stop betting the farm on this one silly number. So many on this forum honestly believe that GCWR is the holy grail of ratings, and that as long as you follow it you are safe regardless of any other variable. I've even read posts from senior forum members basically telling people that the GCWR rating for a particular vehicle is 'absolute' regardless of any other factor. Basically the message is if you stay under the GCWR, you are guaranteed safe.
NOTHING could be further from the truth.
The GVWR is a better number then the max tire load. How can you argue it is not. I am not betting anything or calling it the holy grail. I am not saying you need not worry about anything else as long as you are under this number.
Sure you need to get the big picture.
The GVWR conflicts with every other number. Using only the GVWR wastes your tow vehicle's abilities, in my opinion. But it's up to you. Let me voice what I believe is way more important than all of these numbers. ENJOY CAMPING!!!!!!!
The 2009 F150 17,100 lb GCWR and 11,400 lb trailer tow rating means the truck weight has to drop to 5,700 lbs and I am sure a 2009 F150 163" wb SuperCab 8ft long bed will weigh more than that.
I would really pay attention to GCVWR & GAWR. The first because it's what the manufacturer says its what it will pull & stop. The second because it's the law.
Kennedycamper wrote: I would really pay attention to GCVWR & GAWR. The first because it's what the manufacturer says its what it will pull & stop. The second because it's the law.
GCWR has NOTHING to do with stopping ability. Every vehicle on the road today clearly requires trailer brakes to tow all but the smallest and lightest of trailers. This is a common misconception.
'04 Ford Freestar (Primary tow vehicle) '05 Subaru Forester (Backup tow vehicle) '65 Bethany popup (best popups ever made!) Looking for a tow vehicle Minivan towing
GCWR is as caddy pointed out, it has NOTHING to do with stopping power! ONLY Go power of some sort, and that can be guaged in multiple ways. IE freeway go speed, acceleration, or actual how steep a grade you can pull in low gear before stalling out. As such, as I pointed out earlier, depending upon the vehicle you drive, you will more than likely have different needs for the job. I saw an 18 wheeler once that stalled out on a steeper side road grade near here, drive could not believe he stalled it, had gone up and over every freeway grade from New Orleans to Seattle at 60 mph, but a short 25% grade road stalled him out! he had the power, but not low enough gears in the axels and trans to pull that hill! Meanwhile, dump trucks that could barely hold 50 mph up equal freeway grades at the same GCW, were going up said hill as they were geared to pull steeper grades!
marty
05 Chev CC D/A LS Dooley
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
00 Chev C2500, V5700, 4L80E, 4.10, base truck, no options!
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer
3 Single axle utility trailers
This has turned into quite a discussion of my original question.
I still feel that the GCWR is a Manufacurer's rating of the TV's pulling ability and not a legal limit. I personally have no qualms towing right up to the stated weight, maybe even slightly over. Now I notice one poster stating only 80% of the limit.
My new question is:
Does this 80% idea apply to Axle ratings, vehicle ratings, and tire ratings too, or just GCWR?
To me, at least, this is wasteful, eg. alwasy buy more than you need?
Opinions?
Mike
Mike and Terry
Ellie Mae (Lab mix) and Cinders (Dalmatian)
93 Pace Arrow 33X
90 Wrangler
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Quote: The GCWR rating is for performance comparison and because we have stupid people among us---lets say your truck is rated to tow 6000 lbs and your trailer is 5000 lbs but now you want to take your 3000 lb mother it law== well if you put her in the trailer it is over your tow limits so I know you put her in the bed of your truck but wait you are still pulling 9000 lbs with the truck --you see they have to do something so people know that when they tow near the limits and if they put a alot of weight in the truck too it will put a strain on the vehicle since it can handle only so much weight---so the heavier the trailer the less that can go in the truck--tow a light trailer you can put a whole bunch of stuff in the truck---it is a way of adding up all the weight in and out of the truck so the manufactor can say this is what it can do cause we got stupid people amoung us that cant figure it out for themselves and they have to spell it out---most people with common sense will know if they tow near the limits their vehicle is rated for they cant put 10 friends in the caband expect it to run good but if tommorrow they tow a row boat and it weighs 500 lbs now they can now take 10 friends in the cab -----your GVWR and tow rating and tire ratings are the important numbers----dont overload your vehicle and dont tow more then its rated for (preferably only 80 percent of that number) and dont overload your tires and usually the other numbers will fall in line------it is sort of like the same reason MH's have the warning to not leave the drivers seat while moving????????????
RVRMIKE wrote: \Now I notice one poster stating only 80% of the limit....Does this 80% idea apply to Axle ratings, vehicle ratings, and tire ratings too, or just GCWR?
The "80% rule" has floated around these forums for years. It stems from the fact that in the fierce world of truck marketing, tow rating sells trucks. As a result there are a great many trucks on the road that have been "over-rated" right from the get-go. People discovered that if they actually tried to operate these vehicles at the maximum capacity, the results were no pleasant. Hence the "80% rule" to try and reduce the overly optimistic published numbers and get back to something reasonably achievable.
Conversely, there are a also many vehicles that are purposely under-rated because the need to have a high tow rating is not considered a significant selling factor in their segment. (Think about cars and minivans here) For the OEMs, there is no motivation to test or market much towing ability at all because they would rather sell you a different vehicle for that purpose.
Think about it, if you were a car-maker and I was a customer looking to buy a tow vehicle for a smallish trailer, which vehicle would you rather sell me? The $50k diesel pickup truck with $15k in profit margin or the $25k minivan with $3k in profit margin?
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