chadsalt wrote: No I do not. Since the MaxBrake does not illuminate the brake lights with application of the manual slide, I have no idea. It does use the same plug and play connector as the Prodigy/P3, maybe is was just easier to use a "standard" 4 wire connector?
Perhaps it is actually the signal from the brake light switch that causes the controller to "wake up".
If the controller is "asleep", I assume that means there is no power to the circuitry which converts pressure to an electrical output. If that is the case, then I can't see how pressure at the sensor would cause the unit to "wake up".
OTOH, it is easy to see how the voltage from the brake light switch could cause the unit to "wake up".
chadsalt wrote: No I do not. Since the MaxBrake does not illuminate the brake lights with application of the manual slide, I have no idea. It does use the same plug and play connector as the Prodigy/P3, maybe is was just easier to use a "standard" 4 wire connector?
Perhaps it is actually the signal from the brake light switch that causes the controller to "wake up".
If the controller is "asleep", I assume that means there is no power to the circuitry which converts pressure to an electrical output. If that is the case, then I can't see how pressure at the sensor would cause the unit to "wake up".
OTOH, it is easy to see how the voltage from the brake light switch could cause the unit to "wake up".
Just a thought.
Ron
I would agree with your observation, however in this application "wake up" is not the same as powering on.....
According to the o/m, technically the MaxBrake doesnt ever shut off, the display dims and cuts power use to .02 amps. You can still see the display in the right light at the right angle when it is "sleeping".
rolnrolnroln wrote: The results of my IBC test are one very PO'd person (me). I was backing the truck around to hook up to the TT and backed the corner of the truck into a tree. Major stupid. Looks like about $1500 damage. Light, bumper, fender... Oi. Anyhow, after all that, I find that the readout of the Braksmart is too jittery to make even a reasonable guess when dealing with the small number of amp increase from the IBC. I did find something interesting about going to max IBC (99). The first touch on the brakes causes the pressure reading to go to 261 psi. Pushing harder on the pedal does not increase the PSI reading until the actual line pressure exceeds the 261 PSI. My guess is that the Brakesmart fakes itself out by pretending the IBC setting is really a PSI reading rather than a straight amp reading. The "99" setting on the IBC seems to introduce a dead zone until after the pedal is pushed hard enough to go higher than 261 PSI. It is not a "trip" either. Going over 261 and then backing off the pressure does not "release" the 261. It is a "hard" floor. It does appear that the higher IBC has less and less effect as the hydraulic pressure increases, but as I said, things are too jittery to tell.
Sorry to hear about your truck, if its any consolation my truck has a nice new scratch on the bumper. We were in the field the other day and one of the horses decided to take a taste test.....stupid horse.
The more I think about it, and now with your observations, this IBC seems like it might be the same adjustment as the "T" calibration on the MaxBrake. Although the IBC would be much easier to adjust.
chadsalt wrote: I would agree with your observation, however in this application "wake up" is not the same as powering on.....
According to the o/m, technically the MaxBrake doesnt ever shut off, the display dims and cuts power use to .02 amps. You can still see the display in the right light at the right angle when it is "sleeping".
It would be quite simple to determine if the brake light signal causes the MaxBrake to "wake up" or "power on" or anything.
Just disconnect the wires from the brake light switch, so the brake lights don't come on when the brake pedal is pressed.
Then, with the engine running, press the brake pedal and see what the controller does.
chadsalt wrote: I would agree with your observation, however in this application "wake up" is not the same as powering on.....
According to the o/m, technically the MaxBrake doesnt ever shut off, the display dims and cuts power use to .02 amps. You can still see the display in the right light at the right angle when it is "sleeping".
It would be quite simple to determine if the brake light signal causes the MaxBrake to "wake up" or "power on" or anything.
Just disconnect the wires from the brake light switch, so the brake lights don't come on when the brake pedal is pressed.
Then, with the engine running, press the brake pedal and see what the controller does.
Ron
You're killing me, the things we'll do for science. My original test was to press the pedal until the brake lights came on, then observing when the controller "awoke". It took another ~1/2" beyond the light activation for the controller to "wake up".
.....since you asked, and I have nothing better to do, I walked out and unplugged the brake light switch, no difference. The contoller still "awoke" when the brake pedal was pressed.
chadsalt wrote: Hypothetical; if the IBC is set to provide 1 amp, and the gain provides 3 amps at 400 psi.......why cant the gain just be set to 4 amps at 400 psi?
Of course now Im COMPLETLY baffeled as to why willard could not achieve his desired braking control with the Maxbrake.
Hehe, to skip through a lot of the technical discussion, and get right to answer chadsalt's question here with specific real world experience (not theory and speculation, haha):
Indeed, with the Maxbrake, I was able to turn up the gain, to get the desired initial braking. And, that worked fine as long as I just lightly touched the brake pedal, and never really pressed it (as in, only wanted to make slow, gentle stops).
Problem was, with the gain set that way, when I pressed the pedal a little harder, trailer brakes came on waaay too heavily. In more than one case actually locked up the trailer wheels.
With the Maxbrake, when I turned up the gain enough to get sufficient initial braking, there was TOO MUCH braking when I had to stop/slow down from higher speeds (as in, when I had to press the brake pedal a good bit). When I turned the gain back down to correct that, then, there was NOT enough initial braking. Never could achieve a good 'middle ground' between those extremes. Same basic problem that many people have with non-proportional controllers. With the Brakesmart and its IBC setting, though, I was able to adjust things perfectly.
Which is, like I said, why I think the KISS principle used by Maxbrake hurt them somewhat.
Will & Angela
2 wonderful children that love camping, Stephen & Allison
2003 Ford Excursion V10 4x4
2003 Thor Citation 33M, Hensley Arrow hitch, Brakesmart Brake Control
(wanna see? Here is a picture of it )
Hehe, to skip through a lot of the technical discussion, and get right to answer chadsalt's question here with specific real world experience (not theory and speculation, haha):
Indeed, with the Maxbrake, I was able to turn up the gain, to get the desired initial braking. And, that worked fine as long as I just lightly touched the brake pedal, and never really pressed it (as in, only wanted to make slow, gentle stops).
Problem was, with the gain set that way, when I pressed the pedal a little harder, trailer brakes came on waaay too heavily. In more than one case actually locked up the trailer wheels.
With the Maxbrake, when I turned up the gain enough to get sufficient initial braking, there was TOO MUCH braking when I had to stop/slow down from higher speeds (as in, when I had to press the brake pedal a good bit). When I turned the gain back down to correct that, then, there was NOT enough initial braking. Never could achieve a good 'middle ground' between those extremes. Same basic problem that many people have with non-proportional controllers. With the Brakesmart and its IBC setting, though, I was able to adjust things perfectly.
Which is, like I said, why I think the KISS principle used by Maxbrake hurt them somewhat.
I understand what youre saying, but what Im really wondering now that it appears the IBC is a constant "added power" what its doing for you that simply turning the gain up wouldnt?
It appears to me that the IBC and the "T" setting are simply raising or lowering the starting point for the controller to begin its power application rate (determined by the gain setting).
Since Ive been thinking about the "T" setting vs. IBC, what did you have the "T" set at when you tested the MaxBrake? The gain? And did you adjust the "T" beyond the initial calibration?
* This post was
edited 08/24/08 05:52pm by chadsalt *
chadsalt wrote: .....since you asked, and I have nothing better to do, I walked out and unplugged the brake light switch, no difference. The contoller still "awoke" when the brake pedal was pressed.
Very interesting.
So, now I'm wondering -- why does MaxBrake bother to include a fourth wire and have you connect it to the brake light switch? Seems to me that it must have some purpose.
chadsalt wrote: I understand what youre saying, but what Im really wondering now that it appears the IBC is a constant "added power" what its doing for you that simply turning the gain up wouldnt?
It appears to me that the IBC and the "T" setting are simply raising or lowering the starting point for the controller to begin its power application rate (determined by the gain setting).
Well, I don't agree that IBC is a 'constant' added power, added along entire braking 'curve' as is being suggested here. That is not the experience I have of it, and roln's test noted above with 99% IBC turned on casts even further doubt on that idea.
My exerience with the Brakesmart's IBC setting, is more that it is an 'initial' power that is applied, as soon as you touch the brake. That 'initial' setting is what is continually applied to the brakes, until you press the pedal hard enough that braking PSI goes beyond that IBC setting. Then, the braking 'curve' or whatever goes as it normally would, based on gain and power factor settings.
That being the case, I'm just not seeing how you could duplicate that with the MaxBrake (and I can back that up with actual experience with both controllers, something nobody else in this discussion can say ).
As to your question about the 'T' setting: I honestly don't remember what it was set on when I was testing the Maxbrake. Sorry.
From what I could tell of that 'T' setting, though, it was the point in the brake pressure's 'curve', at which braking power is first turned on. That is NOT the same thing as an initial brake setting, that lets you specify how much braking to apply, the instant TV brakes are first applied. I'm not sure I see how adjusting the T setting (the point at which braking first turns on) would give the same effect as Brakesmart's IBC. It might could come close, yes, but still not the same.
Quote: did you adjust the "T" beyond the initial calibration?
Unfortunately, no, I did not adjust the T setting any, after the initial calibration. Perhaps in hindsight if I would have, I might would have eventually been able to get slightly better results with the Maxbrake. I don't believe so, though, and it was MUCH easier and quicker to get the desired result with the Brakesmart and its IBC setting. I don't believe T setting adjustment would let you turn on a 'constant' amount of braking right off the bat, anyway. That is, not without turning up the gain so much that you'd have too much gain as you got further down the braking 'curve' as I said before.
Anyway, this is a great discussion. It kind of has me tempted to re-connect the MaxBrake, and try it out one more time, tweaking the T setting a little bit. Naaaah. Too much of a PITA to crawl under the dashboard, and disconnect/reconnet all those wires again. Not to mention the fun of pulling out the Brakesmart's pressure sensor wire from the firewall, and running Maxbrake's wire through again. Still not convinced I'd have much different results, anyway.
Now, to shift gears slightly, and try and answer Ron's last question:
Ron Gratz wrote: So, now I'm wondering -- why does MaxBrake bother to include a fourth wire and have you connect it to the brake light switch? Seems to me that it must have some purpose.
Maybe Will can tell us.
I figured it 'wakes up' the controller to begin applying brakes based on pressure and gain setting, kind of like the Brakesmart works. Chadsalt's test seems to suggest there's more to it than that, though.
Perhaps *either* the brake light switch *or* brake pressure sensor will 'wake it up', and in the test Chad did, the brake pressure sensor is what woke it up, since the other alarm clock (brake light, haha) was disabled..
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