According to the engineer that drives the small steam train between Yosmite and Oakhurst, there is a shortage of recycled oil, resulting in the price of recycled oil going up substantially in recent years.
This guy would prefer that we all change our oil more often than we do. He may have to start using clean dino oil to supplement the recycled stuff.
Wayne in San Jose
TV1:2002 Chevy 1500HD 4wd Crew Cab,Valley Odyssey brake ctlr,McKesh mirrors
TV2:2008 GMC 2500HD long bed 4wd Crew Cab,GMC brake ctlr,GMC mirrors
TT:Trailmanor 2720
Honda 2000
Yamaha WR250R,Polaris Sportsman 700 X2,Polaris Scrambler 500
K3WE wrote: A professor of Ag Engineering named Jim Frisbee at University of Missouri said, "I figure that the oil company wants to sell oil and that the car company wants to sell cars, so I change my oil somewhere between the oil-company's recommendation and the car company's recommendation.
AND
The company I used to work for saw 5000 miles as a nice, round, easy-to-remember number that fit nearly perfectly into Dr. Frisbee's rule.
Very knowledgeable post. I change mine around 3500 and 4000.
The dealership changes my oil, and they put that sticker on the window for 3000 miles or 6 months between oil changes. But, I asked the manager and a couple shop guys about the OLS, and they said the best idea was to see just how long the OLS went before saying it needed changing....just once, mind you.....and then split the difference.
So, I did that. I went almost 7000 miles before it popped up on the DIS that I needed an oil change. So, if it says 7000 miles at that time on it, and the sticker says 3000 miles, I figure 5000 miles is just peachy. And, the shop guys agreed....including one who was a relative and knows how rough I can be on an auto and told me honestly that it what he does, also.
Now, here is another thing they said. Mine is gas, which doesn't have the kind of heat transfer a diesel does. But, diesel fuel has a higher concentration of oil within it.
So, it's like a 2 cycle of sorts, allowing some of the lubricating ability of the diesel fuel itself to help keep the cylinder walls slick, where a gas only doesn't have the lubrication within the fuel, even with detergents and other additives.
Therefore, unless a diesel engine is really treated roughly or is under a lot of towing or such stresses, then the engine oil should last at least twice as long if not more than a gas engine.
So, according to them, 5000 miles is absolutely perfectly fine on a gas engine, and 10000 miles on a diesel under normal circumstances.
And, always change the oil filter during the oil change, and make sure that if you get it done at a dealership or those Jiffy Lubes, or Walmart or such, to get them to SHOW you the filter. Some of them have been known NOT to change the filters, and only change the oil and make you think they did. I even will go outside the service bay and look while they change mine, and tell them to hand me the oil filter when they remove it just to be sure. But, you may not be able at your dealership, as some have bays accessible from the outside or such and some don't.
Also, they told me that changing to a synthetic oil isn't as much better as some think. Sure, most have a better additive package than regular pure oil or virgin oils, and especially non-virgin or recycled oils some companies may sell. But, a very good oil additive, such as Lucus will compensate almost 80% time and usually will not cost any more than the synthetic price over regular or half mixes. And, no, they don't sell it there, so it wasn't a sell opportunity.
And, just to add this....oil does NOT wear out...it only loses it's detergents and additives and gets dirty. That is mostly why it may have a certain smell or feel. It doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. It may just be poor or not quite the additive content of other brands of oil.
Tim
If I don't meet your expectations
Maybe you should lower your standards.
All of my vehicles get changed between 6-7,000 miles. My 92 chevy pickup and 97 cavalier use plain old Valvoline and my 98 chevy pickup and my 03 pickup use Amsoil. The 98 is approaching 260,000 miles.
Bryan
2003 2500HD Ext. cab short box
6.0 liter 4.10 gears, Nelson performance PCM
98 K1500 4x4 heavy duty 1/2 ton
6,600lb GVWR 5,280lbs on the scale empty
14 bolt rear diff. 3:73 , Tranny and oil coolers
250,000 miles still purrin' like a kitten
Tim from Alabama wrote: Now, here is another thing they said. Mine is gas, which doesn't have the kind of heat transfer a diesel does. But, diesel fuel has a higher concentration of oil within it.
Actually Tim, being a former professional diesel mechanic myself, diesel engine oil suffers much worse punishment while inside the crankcase. It used to be that diesel engine oil needed to be changed SOONER than gasoline oils did. When diesel engine oil was only rated by the API as "CC," the oil began to show very high concentrations of zinc and magnesium, along with acid formations as a result of combustion. It didn't have the detergent qualities of today's diesel engine oils.
Then what happened over the past 20 years, diesel engine oil became better. Detergents were added, multi viscosity oils were finally accepted for diesels and overall, they performed much better.
Sadly, due to "enviro-whackos," the fact that today's diesel fuel (ULSD) contains 85% LESS sulfer which actually helped the lubricating qualities of the fuel, the diesel oil characteristics have fallen back to "yesteryear" due to emissions standards. With today's Ultra Low Sulfer Fuels, and the newer lubricating oil standard for diesels (API "CJ-4"), the oil life has again gone back into remission. They tried to fix the high sulfer in diesel fuel, which forced the oil chemists to compensate with a less quality engine oil. So, we're almost back to square-1 again with diesel engine oil life. Where diesel oil was evolving into some really good stuff, in goes the diesel fuel change requirements. End result was that the "new diesel oils" of "today" had to change along with the new fuel requirements for emissions requirements. That's why new oils with the API label of "CJ-4" kinda sucks.
The older stuff which is being replaced was API CI-Plus. That was good diesel engine oil which allowed longer periods in between oil changes. Now we're getting the CJ-4 garbage and oil changes must be more frequent for diesels again. Just like 20 and 30 years ago with the old single viscosity diesel engine oils.
An example of this poor modern day performance diesel engine oil is that Caterpillar had a 1 million mile engine warranty with the older oil rating (CI and CI-Plus). Now, since oil makers are being forced to make the CJ-4 diesel stuff, Caterpillar dropped the 1 million mile warranty on their new tractor engines. It's because the new diesel engine oil of today has hit a set-back in technology all to compensate for the fuel compatability & emissions requirements.
Tim from Alabama wrote: Also, they told me that changing to a synthetic oil isn't as much better as some think.
Well your statement WAS correct. For the past 20 years, diesel engine oil was superp! Now with "CJ-4" rated garbage, it's much better to use a pure synthetic than dino diesel engine oil. At least with the pure synthetic "CJ-4" rated stuff, it holds better qualities for thermal viscosity break down and disperses the ash in the oil better than the dino stuff does.
Tim from Alabama wrote:
And, just to add this....oil does NOT wear out...it only loses it's detergents and additives and gets dirty.
You're absolutely correct. Oil does not wear out. But, it does suffer "thermal VISCOSITY molecular breakdown." Which causes amoung other things, sludge, varnish and acid formations much sooner than full synthetics do. Also, contrary to what people think, the color of oil has nothing to do with the "performance" of an oil as far as viscosity goes.
In fact, many people believe that just because their oil "looks like honey," they think it's working perfectly and/or keeping their engines "clean." Totally false. In fact, an oil that still looks like amber or honey after several thousand miles is not doing it's job. It's not dispercing or suspending the dirt, ash, carbon, and sludge away from the surface of the metals like it's suppossed to do. An engine produces all kinds of nasty things internally. Like acid, water, sludge, various metals, all in microscopic form. Where a good oil is working properly is when it actually suspends oil and ash (looks dirty) and keeps it off of critical engine parts.
Tim from Alabama wrote: Now, here is another thing they said. Mine is gas, which doesn't have the kind of heat transfer a diesel does. But, diesel fuel has a higher concentration of oil within it.
Actually Tim, being a former professional diesel mechanic myself, diesel engine oil suffers much worse punishment while inside the crankcase. It used to be that diesel engine oil needed to be changed SOONER than gasoline oils did. When diesel engine oil was only rated by the API as "CC," the oil began to show very high concentrations of zinc and magnesium, along with acid formations as a result of combustion. It didn't have the detergent qualities of today's diesel engine oils.
Then what happened over the past 20 years, diesel engine oil became better. Detergents were added, multi viscosity oils were finally accepted for diesels and overall, they performed much better.
Sadly, due to "enviro-whackos," the fact that today's diesel fuel (ULSD) contains 85% LESS sulfer which actually helped the lubricating qualities of the fuel, the diesel oil characteristics have fallen back to "yesteryear" due to emissions standards. With today's Ultra Low Sulfer Fuels, and the newer lubricating oil standard for diesels (API "CJ-4"), the oil life has again gone back into remission. They tried to fix the high sulfer in diesel fuel, which forced the oil chemists to compensate with a less quality engine oil. So, we're almost back to square-1 again with diesel engine oil life. Where diesel oil was evolving into some really good stuff, in goes the diesel fuel change requirements. End result was that the "new diesel oils" of "today" had to change along with the new fuel requirements for emissions requirements. That's why new oils with the API label of "CJ-4" kinda sucks.
The older stuff which is being replaced was API CI-Plus. That was good diesel engine oil which allowed longer periods in between oil changes. Now we're getting the CJ-4 garbage and oil changes must be more frequent for diesels again. Just like 20 and 30 years ago with the old single viscosity diesel engine oils.
An example of this poor modern day performance diesel engine oil is that Caterpillar had a 1 million mile engine warranty with the older oil rating (CI and CI-Plus). Now, since oil makers are being forced to make the CJ-4 diesel stuff, Caterpillar dropped the 1 million mile warranty on their new tractor engines. It's because the new diesel engine oil of today has hit a set-back in technology all to compensate for the fuel compatability & emissions requirements.
Then, the mechanics at many places like this dealership are still going by the old rule of a few years ago. So, I wonder how much damage is going to result from their lack of this information, or from just not being properly informed in this and many other shops around the country.
Tim from Alabama wrote: Also, they told me that changing to a synthetic oil isn't as much better as some think.
Well your statement WAS correct. For the past 20 years, diesel engine oil was superp! Now with "CJ-4" rated garbage, it's much better to use a pure synthetic than dino diesel engine oil. At least with the pure synthetic "CJ-4" rated stuff, it holds better qualities for thermal viscosity break down and disperses the ash in the oil better than the dino stuff does. I bet they are saying this about mine, since it's a gas engine instead of diesel engine, then, or else they are still not informed of the new changes one.
Tim from Alabama wrote:
And, just to add this....oil does NOT wear out...it only loses it's detergents and additives and gets dirty.
You're absolutely correct. Oil does not wear out. But, it does suffer "thermal VISCOSITY molecular breakdown." Which causes amoung other things, sludge, varnish and acid formations much sooner than full synthetics do. Also, contrary to what people think, the color of oil has nothing to do with the "performance" of an oil as far as viscosity goes.
In fact, many people believe that just because their oil "looks like honey," they think it's working perfectly and/or keeping their engines "clean." Totally false. In fact, an oil that still looks like amber or honey after several thousand miles is not doing it's job. It's not dispercing or suspending the dirt, ash, carbon, and sludge away from the surface of the metals like it's suppossed to do. An engine produces all kinds of nasty things internally. Like acid, water, sludge, various metals, all in microscopic form. Where a good oil is working properly is when it actually suspends oil and ash (looks dirty) and keeps it off of critical engine parts.
Tim from Alabama wrote: Now, here is another thing they said. Mine is gas, which doesn't have the kind of heat transfer a diesel does. But, diesel fuel has a higher concentration of oil within it.
Actually Tim, being a former professional diesel mechanic myself, diesel engine oil suffers much worse punishment while inside the crankcase. It used to be that diesel engine oil needed to be changed SOONER than gasoline oils did. When diesel engine oil was only rated by the API as "CC," the oil began to show very high concentrations of zinc and magnesium, along with acid formations as a result of combustion. It didn't have the detergent qualities of today's diesel engine oils.
Then what happened over the past 20 years, diesel engine oil became better. Detergents were added, multi viscosity oils were finally accepted for diesels and overall, they performed much better.
Sadly, due to "enviro-whackos," the fact that today's diesel fuel (ULSD) contains 85% LESS sulfer which actually helped the lubricating qualities of the fuel, the diesel oil characteristics have fallen back to "yesteryear" due to emissions standards. With today's Ultra Low Sulfer Fuels, and the newer lubricating oil standard for diesels (API "CJ-4"), the oil life has again gone back into remission. They tried to fix the high sulfer in diesel fuel, which forced the oil chemists to compensate with a less quality engine oil. So, we're almost back to square-1 again with diesel engine oil life. Where diesel oil was evolving into some really good stuff, in goes the diesel fuel change requirements. End result was that the "new diesel oils" of "today" had to change along with the new fuel requirements for emissions requirements. That's why new oils with the API label of "CJ-4" kinda sucks.
The older stuff which is being replaced was API CI-Plus. That was good diesel engine oil which allowed longer periods in between oil changes. Now we're getting the CJ-4 garbage and oil changes must be more frequent for diesels again. Just like 20 and 30 years ago with the old single viscosity diesel engine oils.
An example of this poor modern day performance diesel engine oil is that Caterpillar had a 1 million mile engine warranty with the older oil rating (CI and CI-Plus). Now, since oil makers are being forced to make the CJ-4 diesel stuff, Caterpillar dropped the 1 million mile warranty on their new tractor engines. It's because the new diesel engine oil of today has hit a set-back in technology all to compensate for the fuel compatability & emissions requirements.
Tim from Alabama wrote: Also, they told me that changing to a synthetic oil isn't as much better as some think.
Well your statement WAS correct. For the past 20 years, diesel engine oil was superp! Now with "CJ-4" rated garbage, it's much better to use a pure synthetic than dino diesel engine oil. At least with the pure synthetic "CJ-4" rated stuff, it holds better qualities for thermal viscosity break down and disperses the ash in the oil better than the dino stuff does.
Tim from Alabama wrote:
And, just to add this....oil does NOT wear out...it only loses it's detergents and additives and gets dirty.
You're absolutely correct. Oil does not wear out. But, it does suffer "thermal VISCOSITY molecular breakdown." Which causes amoung other things, sludge, varnish and acid formations much sooner than full synthetics do. Also, contrary to what people think, the color of oil has nothing to do with the "performance" of an oil as far as viscosity goes.
In fact, many people believe that just because their oil "looks like honey," they think it's working perfectly and/or keeping their engines "clean." Totally false. In fact, an oil that still looks like amber or honey after several thousand miles is not doing it's job. It's not dispercing or suspending the dirt, ash, carbon, and sludge away from the surface of the metals like it's suppossed to do. An engine produces all kinds of nasty things internally. Like acid, water, sludge, various metals, all in microscopic form. Where a good oil is working properly is when it actually suspends oil and ash (looks dirty) and keeps it off of critical engine parts.
Interesting comments. I wonder if the situation is similar for new gas engines, using current oil ?
This whole oil question, regarding, at what the mileage your engine oil should be changed, seems to be a question that cannot be answered, accurately.
I sometimes think that perhaps the best answer is to change the oil:
somewhere between what the dealership says (3000 miles) and what your engine oil computer says (say, for example 6000 miles). A poster suggested this, to split the difference as it were.
During severe service, ie; everyday bumper to bumper traffic @ 90 degree weather, or short, trips, during extreme cold....maybe 3000 miles makes more sense.
Towing a trailer during hot summer months, can generate a lot more heat, than a solo vehicle can....in these cases 3000 miles.
Makes you wonder about the old recommendations which I believe were severe service @ 3000 miles and non severe service (mostly solo highway cruising) @ 5000 miles.
[quote=Tim from Alabama]
Then, the mechanics at many places like this dealership are still going by the old rule of a few years ago. So, I wonder how much damage is going to result from their lack of this information, or from just not being properly informed in this and many other shops around the country.
Quote:
Tim, Actually you're right on. Here's an example of what happened to me. About two weeks ago, I went to my Chevy dealer to inquire about the oil used on the New Chevy Diesels. I about fell out of my chair when the parts clerk did fully acknowledge the fact that the new diesels need the new enviro friendly oil (CJ-4). Okay, that was point #1. The dealer knew about the new requirement. Point #2 is what really surprised me. He told me that GM DID NOT have, nor ever carry this new CJ-4 rated oil for their new diesels. I asked him what brand of diesel engine oil was GM using currently. (Here comes the shock portion...) He said, GM used FORD CJ-4 diesel engine oil!!! I said, "FORD!" He said yup, that's all we carry per quart for CHEVY/GMC diesels at the moment.
Anyway, at least GM knows what type of oil to use and isn't affraid to use a competitor's manufactured oil until they get on line with their own "AC Delco" brand of diesel engine oil.
Here comes a really scary situation, on the lines of what you had just said: Last week I went to a Mercedes Benz dealership. I did this because I was looking for the new Mobil-1 "CJ-4" rated 5w-40 (diesel engine oil). On Mobil's Delvac website, they say that one can find the special "Mobil DELVAC-1 5W-40" oil at any MBZ dealership.
So, I go into the parts department and ask them for this oil. They come back and tell me that they are using a "CI-PLUS" rated Mobil-1 CJ-4 stuff. I explained to the guy that on Mobil's "Delvac-1" web site it specifically says to purchase the stuff at any MBZ dealership.
The parts assistant manager tells me, "yeah we know, but that stuff is hard to get, so we just get the Mobil-1 0w-40 CI-PLUS stuff."
I said, "isn't it bad to use CI-Plus on new diesels?" He hyms and haws, tells me, "uhhhh, well.....uh, you can use it." He winked at me as if to tell me, "yeah we know it's not good to use the CI-Plus stuff on new diesels, but we'll never admit it to the public."
As I was walking out, he told me, "we're waiting for a shipment of the CJ-4 oil, check back with me next week."
Sure I will. So, it goes to show you that some dealers don't even know what type of oil they're suppossed to use for the new diesels. OR.... they know, but the choose not to use the new oil type for whatever reason. In the mean time, that particular dealership is using the wrong oil in the new MBZ diesels and over time, it's damaging the diesel particulate filters on the exhaust system. I equate this with putting "leaded" fuel into a car that only uses "unleaded fuel." Your catalytic converter would be shot in about one or two tankfulls.
Nothing surprises me anymore. At lease GM admists in their owner's manual for the Duramax Diesels that failure to use CJ-4 rated oil will damage your vehicle's emissions equipment and VOID the factory warranty. Ford claims the same in their owner's manuals. I'm sure MBZ does too, but service techs don't seem to follow the rules of their own company.
Yeah, Adam-12, and that just goes to show you how the auto industry really doesn't care about the customer. I am sure if something breaks down while they use the wrong oil, they will just claim something YOU did instead of them and you wind up paying for the repairs.
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or such, to get them to SHOW you the filter. Some of them have been known NOT to change the filters, and only change the oil and make you think they did. I even will go outside the service bay and look while they change mine, and tell them to hand me the oil filter when they remove it just to be sure. But, you may not be able at your dealership, as some have bays accessible from the outside or such and some don't.
