BarneyS
S.E. Lower Michigan
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Both my present Sunnybrook trailer and my previous Sunnybrook trailer have the chains attached to the A frame behind the tongue jack. Yes, I do cross my chains.
Barney
2004 Sunnybrook 30FKS TT
Hensley "Arrow" 1400# hitch
2002 Ford F250 Super Duty, 7.3L PSD
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LarryJM
NoVa
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BarneyS wrote:Both my present Sunnybrook trailer and my previous Sunnybrook trailer have the chains attached to the A frame behind the tongue jack. Yes, I do cross my chains.
Barney
If that was how it came from the factory it's different than what Sunnybrook is using on their 2007 Sunset Creek line shown below where the chains are clearly not "IN BACK OF THE JACK", but in front.
Larry
2001 standard box 7.3L E-350 PSD Van with 4.10 rear and 2007 Holiday Rambler Aluma-Lite 8306S Been RV'ing since 1974. TRAILER MODS
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JimInMA
Littleton, MA
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LarryJM wrote: You mean like this 2004 Starcraft Aruba:
Nope. Like this 2003 Starcraft Aruba:
Quote:That's hard to do when all of the TT I've shown so far show the attachment point in front of the jack and unless you want to assume the responsibility for modifying a safety feature on your RVIA certified trailer then go for it, but I'll pass.
I don't need to modify anything on my RIVA certified TT thank you very much. Mine has it's saftey chains connected in the proper locations to do it. The fact that you can't find pictures of other connection points doesn't mean that they don't exist.
Quote:I'll pass on any worthless exercises since I've actually done that but w/o pics and it works just fine and supports the tongue much better and further forward than when I tested it with the chains uncrossed. I did this when I determined how long the chains should be and when I did it I didn't have 10K tension, but tightend up the chains between the TT and TV connected with the TT wheels blocked and TV parking brake set then raised the tongue jack and only put the tongue wt as tension not the actual tension that would be there when the chains are working and the trailer brakes are fully activated via the breakaway switch. Maybe you need to do this drill you're recommending me redo with your TT and see what happens and prove to yourself that even with a common attachment point it's better to cross them than not. Please post pics when you do.
I have done it with mine. That's how I figured out that behind the jack was the best place to do the crossing. The difference there is I didn't chock my wheels and activate my emergency brakes I don't expect that I'll have all that many problems if my coupler breaks while everything is parked on a nice flat driveway with all of the brakes on.
Quote:
Well you must have gloss over that uncrossed safety chains don't pull along the centerline of the trailer, but to one side or another and if you have your breakaway switch laynard properly sized it will pull before the chains are at full length and as long as you don't do something stupied like using your breaks your will have a constant and even braking from the TT brakes until they heat up and fade, but we're not taking minutes here, but seconds till you have slowed enough to only have a minor vice major accident.
I didn't gloss over anything. I made no comment one way or the other about the effect of crossed or uncrossed chains pulling centerline. But it doesn't really matter. The entire point of crossing the chains is to create a common point that both creates a cradle and eliminates the problem of the centerline pulling. If your chains are already connected at a common point then the centerline pulling issue is moot. All you've done is move the common point an inch or two forward.
Quote:I'm still waiting for someone to post an actual setup on a major TT brand that doesn't use this common safety chain attachment point and TT w/o a real A-frame don't qualify such as boats, etc. since you need that A-frame for this single attachment point just behind the coupler to function properly.
Several have now been posted and I'll post a pic of my Coachmen when I get back to my house.
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lonekazoo
Utah
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The chains on my KZ loop around the jack, and have attachment bolts on the frame that are seperated by a couple inches. I like this design; even if one or more of the bolts were to come loose, the chain would still be effective as it would be kept in place by the jack. I'm uploading pictures now...
Oh, and I cross them 
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2005 KZ Frontier 2809PQS-F
2003 GMC Yukon XL 2500 SLT/4x4/8.1L/3.73/Autoride
(Previously 1999 Suburban LT K1500)
1K/10K Equal-i-zer, Prodigy, Champion
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BarneyS
S.E. Lower Michigan
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LarryJM wrote:
If that was how it came from the factory it's different than what Sunnybrook is using on their 2007 Sunset Creek line shown below where the chains are clearly not "IN BACK OF THE JACK", but in front.
Larry
Yes, that is how it came from the factory on both of them. Both of mine have been Titan models. One was a 1997 model and our present one is a 2004. Don't know about their other lines.
Barney
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mobeewan
Hampton, Va
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Personally I do not think that just because several TT manufacturers use the single chain connected to the front of the tongue method is because it is such a good way to do it. I think it is because it is the cheapest. One chain, one small rod welded to the tongue. It costs next to nothing and gives a false sense of security. I'm not going to bet my life or anyone elses on it. That is why I am going to have my single chain removed and design my own dual chain set up that will be safer like I did on my last trailer. I will also try to make it so that it will cradle the tongue if possible. The current factory one chain design on mine will not cradle the tongue if the trailer comes loose.
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fullautodave
Northwest Arkansas
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I don't think the Department of Transportation gives a hoot whether the chains are crossed or not. I agree it would be better if the chains kept the tongue off the ground if it came unhooked but I'm not sure if either way would accomplish that. Generally the chain is stronger than the attachment points or vice versa. Lot of people use those quick links to attach chain to TV, might as well use a plastic tie.
I think the DOT's idea is to keep the TV and trailer "together" in an emergency so you would have some control over where the trailer goes. If crossed chains were such a good idea then why don't the DOT require tractor-trailers to use them?
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Rubiranch
Salt Lake City, UT
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WOW
TV: Mint 1972 Ford F-250 XLT
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LarryJM
NoVa
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JimInMA wrote:LarryJM wrote: You mean like this 2004 Starcraft Aruba:
Nope. Like this 2003 Starcraft Aruba:
Quote:That's hard to do when all of the TT I've shown so far show the attachment point in front of the jack and unless you want to assume the responsibility for modifying a safety feature on your RVIA certified trailer then go for it, but I'll pass.
I don't need to modify anything on my RIVA certified TT thank you very much. Mine has it's saftey chains connected in the proper locations to do it. The fact that you can't find pictures of other connection points doesn't mean that they don't exist.
Quote:I'll pass on any worthless exercises since I've actually done that but w/o pics and it works just fine and supports the tongue much better and further forward than when I tested it with the chains uncrossed. I did this when I determined how long the chains should be and when I did it I didn't have 10K tension, but tightend up the chains between the TT and TV connected with the TT wheels blocked and TV parking brake set then raised the tongue jack and only put the tongue wt as tension not the actual tension that would be there when the chains are working and the trailer brakes are fully activated via the breakaway switch. Maybe you need to do this drill you're recommending me redo with your TT and see what happens and prove to yourself that even with a common attachment point it's better to cross them than not. Please post pics when you do.
I have done it with mine. That's how I figured out that behind the jack was the best place to do the crossing. The difference there is I didn't chock my wheels and activate my emergency brakes I don't expect that I'll have all that many problems if my coupler breaks while everything is parked on a nice flat driveway with all of the brakes on.
Quote:
Well you must have gloss over that uncrossed safety chains don't pull along the centerline of the trailer, but to one side or another and if you have your breakaway switch laynard properly sized it will pull before the chains are at full length and as long as you don't do something stupied like using your breaks your will have a constant and even braking from the TT brakes until they heat up and fade, but we're not taking minutes here, but seconds till you have slowed enough to only have a minor vice major accident.
I didn't gloss over anything. I made no comment one way or the other about the effect of crossed or uncrossed chains pulling centerline. But it doesn't really matter. The entire point of crossing the chains is to create a common point that both creates a cradle and eliminates the problem of the centerline pulling. If your chains are already connected at a common point then the centerline pulling issue is moot. All you've done is move the common point an inch or two forward.
Well based on what I personally observed with my common attachment point IMO there is a significant difference in whether the safety chains pull along the centerline of the trailer or not. Uncrossed they don't and crossed they do so that's what I've found to be the case.
Quote:I'm still waiting for someone to post an actual setup on a major TT brand that doesn't use this common safety chain attachment point and TT w/o a real A-frame don't qualify such as boats, etc. since you need that A-frame for this single attachment point just behind the coupler to function properly.
Several have now been posted and I'll post a pic of my Coachmen when I get back to my house.
Well it appears that Sunnybrook, Starcraft, and Dutchman Coachmen all changed from behind the tongue to the common point just after the coupler. The Sunnybook is a 2007, the Starcraft a 2004 and the Coachmen I showed is evidently a 2007. Barneys is IIRC like 2004, the Starcraft you showed is a 2003 and I'll be interested to hear what year your Dutchman is. Maybe something changed and I'm wonder why at least these three fairly major TT manufacturers all changed from a slightly separated location behind the jack to a common point in front of the jack on their newer models and is much closer to the coupler and front of the A-frame. 
It seems that Airstream is the only TT I've found that are using a fairly separated safety chain attachment point on their newer model trailers. 
Larry
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LarryJM
NoVa
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BarneyS wrote:LarryJM wrote:
If that was how it came from the factory it's different than what Sunnybrook is using on their 2007 Sunset Creek line shown below where the chains are clearly not "IN BACK OF THE JACK", but in front.
Larry
Yes, that is how it came from the factory on both of them. Both of mine have been Titan models. One was a 1997 model and our present one is a 2004. Don't know about their other lines.
Barney
I tried to find a later Sunnybrook Titan TT model pic, but on their site the Titan now appears to be a 5er. Below is a pic of the Edgewater model from their 2008 brochure and like the Sunset Creek the safety chains appear to be just like mine with a common attachment point in front of the jack, close to the coupler.
I'm beginning to think something made all these trailer manufacturers to change this behind the jack safety chain attachment to the in front of the jack with a common attachment point. Maybe they found something that caused problems with the behind the jack safety chain attachment point ... that's all I can think of.
Larry
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