FYI, when I spoke to the factory, he explained to me what the "exterior hung glass" option is. In most "fiberglass" trailers, the walls are made of Filon (fiberglass) bonded to foam block insulation, with aluminum tubing for the framing. The problem with that type of construction is that the aluminum tubing allows a lot of heat/cold transmission, and can also cause condensation inside the wall that in turn leads to delamination.
What Skyline does is frame the walls with wood and fiberglass insulation, just like on the standard aluminum sided models. They then skin the walls with two layers of luan overlapped so there are no seams, and cover that with a continuous fiberglass sheet. The cost of that option on the trailer we're considering is about $1600 (dealer cost), with a list price of around $2000. It adds about 400 pounds to the weight of the trailer, most of which is the weight of the two layers of luan installed over the framing and insulation. I haven't decided yet whether it's worth it to me. I understand that the smooth fiberglass sides are easier to clean, are more resistant to damage, and they certainly look better, but that's also a lot of money and any damage is a lot more expensive to fix.
Please make sure they give you a copy of the options you have ordered. I ordered my tt over the phone and told him what options I wanted. When we picked up my tt it did not have the stone guard on the front. I ask why it was not on there and he said I did not order it. I know I did it was at the top of my list but now it's my word against his. I told him to go ahead and order me one and He told me he would do me right. We will see on Saturday when we take the tt back for warranty work and to have it installed.
1. Tinted Safety Glass Windows - Personal choice, but not a bad idea
2. Exterior hung glass (Huh? What is that?) - Based on what they explained to you about what that is, I like the idea, although it may be a bit of overkill. Not cheap, either.
3. Aluminum wheels IPO steel - Personal choice, but I like the way aluminum wheels look (thats what we have).
4. Rear ladder - HIGHLY RECOMMEND! We have one, and love the easy access it gives to the roof, so you can keep an eye on the seals, etc.
5. Electric awning - Would not recommend. Prefer manual, as I think most do.
6. heated/wrapped holding tanks (TT underbelly is not enclosed, so they offer insulated holding tanks as an option) - Would highly recommend, since you said you plan to camp in colder weather, when freezing can be an issue.
7. Slider windows replace fixed on slide ends - Definitely. Ours does not have a window on one end of the slide, wish it did.
8. Outside grill - Personal choice. Do you prefer cooking with gas, or charcoal? We're more of charcoal folks, so our trailer does not have such, but whatever floats your boat.
9. Step light - Not a bad idea, but you can live without it, I think.
10. Front window with rock guard - Personal choice. I like the rock guard idea, but got mixed thoughts about having a window on front. Such is known to be a leaking problem. Can you get the rock guard, but no front window?
11. 15M BTU AC IPO standard 13.5M - Personal choice, 13.5 will probably work fine. We have 15M, but it gets very hot here in the Southeast.
12. 21 inch range IPO standard 17 inch - Personal choice. How much cooking inside will you do?
13. Dinette access doors (on ends of dinette, so you don't have to remove cushions to access storage) - Not a bad idea, but not as great as you may think. Ours has this, and we've found most times we need to get stuff out of there, we have to remove cushions anyway, and get it from the top.
14. Porcelain toilet (IPO plastic, I assume) - Personal choice. Either will work OK.
As for other general advice I'd give, about speccing out your trailer:
- Ask what load range of tires they will use. D or E would be best. Also ask what brand. If at all possible, avoid Carlisle and Goodyear Marathons. Both have horrible reputation for failures. See if they can get Maxxis, Denman, Titan, or Greenball radials (I do not recommend bias ply, in any brand).
- See if they will put on a power tongue jack. Great to have.
- If it does not have such as standard, see if they will put on Dexter torsion axles instead of (cheap, noisy, bouncy) leaf springs. If torsion axles are not an option, see if they can at least install shock absorbers on leaf sprung suspension. Makes a big difference.
- Ask if they can install a black tank rinser (quickie flush or tornado flush). You will want one, they are wonderufl.
..In the interest of not adding too much you didn't specifically ask about, I'll quit at that. Good luck with it, this is indeed an exciting time, ordering a trailer exactly the way you want it. Let us know what you end up with.
Will & Angela
2 wonderful children that love camping, Stephen & Allison
2003 Ford Excursion V10 4x4
2003 Thor Citation 33M, Hensley Arrow hitch, Brakesmart Brake Control
(wanna see? Here is a picture of it )
ksd.. What I know about wall construction, you could put on the pin of a needle and still have room to dance. From what I read there are a number of ways to engineer these things. It seems every manufacturer has the "best" method. I have had two wood frame truck campers, one with aluminum siding, and the current one with filon. My TT is aircraft grade aluminum frame, with a filon exterior. I know that wood is heavier than aluminum, and subject to dry rot if not maintained properly. With aluminum, I suppose a lot could depend on how it is put together ie; tubing, square channel, quality of welding, grade of aluminum, etc. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will chime in here. I've been happy with both and have no issus to date. I chose the trailer I have based more on its reputation, owner input, factory support, and that type of stuff.. I really had no idea how it was constructed until I went on a factory tour. I really think owner feed back is more valuable in most cases, and I would get as much as I could before making a purchase. This forum is a good place to do that. Sounds like you are doing your homework. I know there are some pretty knowledgable people here that can help you decide if the extra expense is worth it. If this manufacturer has an owner forum that might be worth your time as well.
I'd like to think that I know a bit more than Bill about wall construction having been on a half dozen factory tours for several manufacturers.
Three things bother me about Skylines 'hung glass' method & theory behind it.
1. Skyline is an economy brand. Nothing wrong with that, but this is not the place in the food chain where you will find the highest quality or leading edge technology.
2. Wood framing is the norm in economy brands, but wood framing at that price point is NOT the same as the quality you'll find in a wood-framed Northwood coach.
3. Skyline's logic about aluminum framed RV's sweating on the inside caused by the aluminum framing, leading to delamination is a real stretch. Most cases of delamination I've seen were caused by external leaks at windows, etc. Next were faulty wall construction and GRP layup. Next were structural failures of the house construction (bulkheads torn loose). I've owned 1 Holiday Ramblers, 1 Beaver DP and now an Arctic Fox, all with aluminum framing. I will say that are the right time of the day in certain weather conditions, you can see where the wall framing is by looking at the dew pattern on the exterior of the coach, but I've never seen that be the cause of wall delamination.
4. The cost of this option is approaching 10% of the cost of the TT. That's too much for a questionable option that you will never get your money back on.
Steve & C. J.
"Gracie" the Rough Collie & "Bo'sun" the Bichon Frise
SteveRankin wrote: The cost of this option is approaching 10% of the cost of the TT. That's too much for a questionable option that you will never get your money back on.
I appreciate your thoughts, Steve. I was leaning the same way. While I like the look and ease of cleaning of fiberglass, that's a very expensive option. We'll skip it. With the standard aluminum siding, we can keep the price of the coach below $22M.
Not knowing the costs of the options makes it harder to assess the worth.
1. Tinted Safety Glass Windows
- I didn't order these but sometimes wonder if I should have, a window broke in our old trailer and the tint would be nice at times?
2. Exterior hung glass (Huh? What is that?)
-No idea here.
3. Aluminum wheels IPO steel
-I got the Aluminum wheels, I don't see too many trailers greater than 3 years old with Steel wheels that aren't rusty.
4. Rear ladder
-I got this, it is nice to have a ladder if you need to get on the roof at the site.
5. Electric awning
-I used to not like my electric awning, but I am more used to it now. I wouldn't choose a trailer based on it but I wouldn't pay extra for one either.
6. heated/wrapped holding tanks (TT underbelly is not enclosed, so they offer insulated holding tanks as an option)
-I got this option because I like to camp in the spring/fall
7. Slider windows replace fixed on slide ends
-I have these in my camper and it is nice to get the cross breeze.
8. Outside grill
-I have this, I use it every trip and it is handy, but it's not the greatest grill in the world. Works though.
9. Step light
-I would get this, very nice to see the steps.
10. Front window with rock guard
-I would pass on this, we have one and never open the rock guard.
11. 15M BTU AC IPO standard 13.5M
-I got this option, I like how fast the trailer cools, it will run on a 20 amp cuircut.
12. 21 inch range IPO standard 17 inch
-I don't cook inside so I would pass on this, I would rather have the counter space.
13. Dinette access doors (on ends of dinette, so you don't have to remove cushions to access storage)
-With the number of kids you have it would be nice to use the storage under the dinette. I had these on my old campers and have drawers now. It is nice to put commonly used items inside the door and then less used under the seats.
14. Porcelain toilet (IPO plastic, I assume)
-I would have ordered this option if it was available.
Now the caveat to the above is that I planned on keeping my camper for a good long time. (Until the kids outgrew the bunks, oldest is 3 now). I ordered extra options to be sure we would be happy longer
Jeff
2009 Rockwood Signature Ultra Light 8317SS
2004 Dodge Ram 1500 QC LB Hemi
DW Kelly and DD
BarneyS wrote: I believe the "Exterior Hung Glass" is a smooth, gel coated fiberglass exterior over regular fiberglass insulation that is added to the outside of the frame as opposed to the bonded "filon/foam" type of siding/insulation that is used in many trailers. It could also be an option instead of horizontal aluminum siding. There is usually much less chance of delamination with that type and, in my opinion, it is much better looking and easier to clean.
I may be wrong but seems to me that is what I have heard it called/described before.
Barney
THats correct and IMO, its one of the options I would DEFINITELY take if offered.....Exterior hung glass has better insulating value, stronger and more importantly can be repaired if damaged in any way. A delaminated or damaged laminated sidewall is a nightmare - forcing you to replace the entire wall....Also, hung glass has a better finish - the fibers are deeper in the finish - making it last longer and easier to clean....
Unlikely, that its a cheap upgrade - but it will be an investment grade option if you keep the camper or sell/trade later.
Lorax wrote: Unlikely, that its a cheap upgrade - but it will be an investment grade option if you keep the camper or sell/trade later.
Definitely not a cheap option -- about $2,000. All of the other available options are no more than a hundred bucks or so each.
Right now we're leaning toward ordering most of the options. The options we would definitely skip are the electric awning (I prefer manual), outside grill, front window with rock guard and freestanding dinette. With aluminum siding, the trailer with all of the other options (safety glass, aluminum wheels, heated tanks, dinette access doors, etc.) would cost us about $22,000. If we also go with the exterior hung fiberglass in place of aluminum, the cost jumps to about $24,000. I just haven't decided on that one yet, but I'm leaning against it.
someone suggested better tires, I say running gear and tires...
and again this gets ignored... people only want the things they can show off to their friends...
the chassis and running gear and tires make up the foundation of the unit... if it is substandard (many are) the rest of the unit will be substandard regardless of the pretty options...
but remember these recommendations when you come on to post about blow tires and the damage it caused...
no one wants to spend the money in this area, it easy to see why the mfg's ignore it so easily...
Love my mass produced, entry level, built by Lazy American Workers, Hornet
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