no_bytes wrote: I'm still undecided on DEF. I guess if I ever find myself in the market for a new truck, then I will decide. But, I can't see any engine getting worse MPG's then my 6.4 PSD, so this should be good(?)
One question I have. How much pollution is emitted into the air while creating this DEF stuff? Are we transferring pollution from our tailpipes to smoke stacks that create this stuff?
Also, has anyone seen this DEF sold anywhere yet? If vehicles are running it, it must be sold somewhere. Heck even is Europe. How much is it?
The key difference between tailpipe emissions and factory emissions is that it is much easier to treat emissions from a few large factories than from a few million vehicles/
This is just a guess based on what I've read so far, but since many vehicles will be utilizing this technology starting in 2010, I am assuming DEF will be readily available. Since it is not used in large quantities (approximately 1 gal of DEF per 50+ gal of fuel used) I believe you will first see it available in gallon jugs much like windshield washer fluid is sold. I have read reports that large truck stops are already working on installing pumps to deliver it right alongside the diesel pumps.
The carbon footprint in this endeavor is going to far greater than factory emissions. This product has to be shipped regardless of whether it is in bulk or packaged in 1 gal containers. Packaging is yet another area along with the waste generated by the packaging once the product is used. Does anybody else besides me see this ending up like the whole MTBE instead of lead in our gasoline debacle? The MTBE turned out to be far more of a hazzard than lead in the long run. We seem to always create a larger problem in the name of fixing another!
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no_bytes wrote: I'm still undecided on DEF. I guess if I ever find myself in the market for a new truck, then I will decide. But, I can't see any engine getting worse MPG's then my 6.4 PSD, so this should be good(?)
One question I have. How much pollution is emitted into the air while creating this DEF stuff? Are we transferring pollution from our tailpipes to smoke stacks that create this stuff?
Also, has anyone seen this DEF sold anywhere yet? If vehicles are running it, it must be sold somewhere. Heck even is Europe. How much is it?
The key difference between tailpipe emissions and factory emissions is that it is much easier to treat emissions from a few large factories than from a few million vehicles/
If you are going to go down that road, you can't simplify it to comparing a few large factories, to a few million vehicles. The question is more complex. Getting raw materials to these factories, creating the machinery (factories) to make DEF, creating these distribution tanks for all fueling stations, electricity to operate, delivery of finished product, creating the systems on the new trucks, disposing of the systems on these trucks when they die. It's kind of like the Prius argument that they aren't as good for the environment as we think.
I'm not saying it is better/worse or whatever. Just something to consider when trying to figure out the "true" cost of this stuff. Probably not possible.
I'm glad that I have a 2006. I can buy fuel from any pump, not just the ones that are "safe" for 2007 and newer vehicles.
Do heavy-duty diesel trucks (over 8600 lbs GVW) require USLD (15ppm, vs. 500ppm LSD) like cars, or just the cars?
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Ok, here's a question. Diesels requiring ultra-low sulpher fuel are already having problems getting fuel in Mexico. Are they going to have to take their own supply of urea to Mexico with them when they go, or will it be available (rhetorical question)?What about Canada? Or are these going to be USA only vehicles?
Canada has had ONLY ULSD since 2006, it's all you can buy at any retail pump in the Country. Commerial, off road only machines can use the old 500 ppm stuff if they can get it.
The manufacturers have added or are planning on adding heaters to urea tanks to thaw the fluid after it freezes. That does zero to the jugs you may have to carry in the bed of the truck though. Pain in the neck if you ask me.
The 2010 Dodge/Cummins pickups do not use urea.
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Bob Shaw wrote: Ok, here's a question. Diesels requiring ultra-low sulpher fuel are already having problems getting fuel in Mexico. Are they going to have to take their own supply of urea to Mexico with them when they go, or will it be available (rhetorical question)?What about Canada? Or are these going to be USA only vehicles?
Who want's to go to Mexico??...I've had zero problems finding ULSD anywhere..never been an issue, (except I haven't been to Mexico and have absoluely no desire whatsoever to go there either). I have the "dreaded" DPF, have had it for over two years, truck has lots of power, I get doggone good mpg towing or empty and I've had one reflash since I've owned this "bone stock" truck...From everything I've read about the "new diesels, I'm quite pleased with mine also and will be holding on to it for a long time..
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I don't know why we needed this technology to begin with. My 05 DMax already burns cleaner than the car my wife drives. Glad I got an 05 and I plan on keeping it as long as I can keep it running. Also agree with no bytes, how do we know how much pollution is being created just making this stuff and getting it to "market". Makes one wonder sometimes if anyone in Washingon actually has a brain, or knows how to use it.
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