I couldn't figure out what you mean until you drew that either. Your first post said something about an L bracket with another L bracket upside down on it so I couldn't make that work in my head. It's actually a U bracket upside down on an L.
I wonder why they didn't just stack 2 identical L brackets with the heads of the carriage bolts sandwiched between the surfaces?
You know, like this (X,O=steel, B=bolt):
..O
..O
XO
XO
XO
XOOOOOOOOO
X.BBB.BBB
XXXBXXXBXXX
.....B.....B
.....B.....B
.....B.....B
yes a "U" bracket. The reason is so that the carrage bolts can ge slid in place before the side bolts are tightened which leaves some slack between the wall of the U and the head of the carriage bolt. This method keeps the carriage bolt from being pushed up and out of its square hole as the bottom 1 X 3 is fitted then the bottom filon/luan and finally the bracket and lock nuts. The double "L" that you suggest does not allow for the bracket to be installed and the carrage bolts to be slid into place I believe the reason Lance used a 5 square hole bracket it to allow for carrage bolt allignment on different campers. For instance on the rear tie down using 2-3-4 and on the front 1-2-3 or 3-4-5.
In order for me to install this bracket I had removed the bottom sidewall frameing and so the bracket was installed on the new sidewall wood on my work bench. Then the sidewall bottom was attached to the rear skirt and then the sidewall and skirt was attached to the rear wall, vertical side wall frame and sistered to the old existing sidewall. It was very tricky making the measurements to have the bottom 1 X 3 have it's holes in perfect alignment and press fit on each ends and the underwing cross frame.
Without the Rockwell Sonicrafter, I could not have made the necessary square cuts behind the sidewall luan/filon.
Your tiedown steel plate seems to be solid enough but I question having only 3/8 wood to support the bracket. Lance's desigh of a wood "L" provides doubled 3/4 which gives 1 1/2 inch support. Your idea of welding 2 steel "L" seems solid but before you go to all that trouble go into Lowes lumber department and grab their Simpson book and look at their simpson connectors. I used for spanning joints Simpson mending plates and 3/4 " stub nails. Inserting the stub nails was easy for me because I have an air palm nailer that I bought about 5 years ago when I got tired of hitting my fingers with the hammer.
Lance88lover, I like the idea of pouring Rot Doctor from the top & letting it drain down(that are quite appropriate at this point), but if you actually fill the damn thing completely full from top to bottom with Rot Doctor Or epoxy or low expansion urethane foam you would have one solid camper!
That's the idea. Also for structural strength consider extruded fiberglass. I bought some "L" chanel 20 years ago to build a frame.
It is so hard it is difficult to cut but very rigid and strong. I agree with you that 3/8 ply is not sufficient to hold the jack bracket
Fat Fox wrote:
HOWEVER, it occurs to me - and this is where your input could be useful: What if the skin was pulled off, the rotting members replaced and then the skin was replaced with NO Filon but instead just spot gluing to the frame. It would seem to me, one could then complete the job by using Wrangler's method since the Urethane foam would glue to the filon and to the sides of the frame and be perfectly flat and a come-along to cinch it tight?)
Perhaps this is possible. If so, of course, that still leaves required work on the rotting jack corners and the completely rotted out wing section and other issues I mentioned that I can't recall off the top of my head. (The right side front jack has a stress crack too but I don't feel any mushy Filon there - perhaps just an actual stress crack.)
It is your call, but if I could not afford replacement filon (My local RV dealer wants $54 per running ft I would use the Lowes FRP at $31.00 for a 4 X 8 and seam it. This is where my Sonicrafter is a handy tool. I can simply put a streight edge on the filon and cut through it to a 1/16 inch depth then peel it off. If it won't peel then cut an aditional 1/8 and seper.ate the entire luan/filon from the rotted frame. On replacement the seam can be filled with a polyfiller. Go to the Clarke industries web site and read the PDF file on repairing Filon (under RV section)
The important thing is to get the camper structurally sound and leak free.
When it gets a little cooler, I am going to reseal the roof and replace the A/C gasket. To leak test the camper, I intend to make a sealed cover that will attach to my shop vac on one side and the shower vent on the other to pressurize the camper then bubble test the roof seams.
FF1063 wrote: AF beefed up the tie down brackets in 2005. They added aluminum 'L' brackets inside along the bulkheads as well. Have not heard of any issues since.
Thanks for showing that. I'm glad they improved it.
However, perhaps it's hard to tell by the picture, but since the attachment hole is now off center from the 4 main bolts, it appears all the force is now on 2 bolts going up into the side wall. If so, this isn't a huge improvement over mine because you now have bolts being pulled rather than in sheer and if pulled out, there is now a lever on the other 4.
There are numerous fixes for the problem . . . I'm just not sure this is the most thoughtful or strongest one. But, I may be seeing it wrong too.
BTW: Poke holes in the vinyl strip. Otherwise water will pool in it & the screws will rust as water creeps up into them and into the wall. I read that suggestion after discovering mine rusted & rotting in the horizontal locations. (The vertical sections drain, so no problems with them)
Seymour Wrought
Rebuilding my rotting 03 Arctic Fox 1150 that was made of cardboard, tape & scraps of garbage.
01 F350 dually 4X4
Rancho 9000, Air bags, Roadmaster sway bar
Torklift/Fastguns, Lance cabover struts, (un)Happi jacks, Homemade jack stabilizers
lance88lover wrote: It is your call, but if I could not afford replacement filon
Neither can I!
I misspoke big time: Where I said get rid of the Filon I meant get rid of the cardboard. (Luan) I'm taking great care in not damaging the Filon.
What I'm considering: Once I pull off the soggy cardboard garbage and I am ready to re-apply the Filon, just leave the cardboard out of the equation completely and glue the Filon to the framing members. If I only did that, the thing would not be sound and the Filon would be lose and sag in the voids between the framing members.
However, after I glued the Filon to the frame, I was thinking of then working from the inside using Wrangler's method (shown in early pictures). This would involve spraying urethane foam onto the inside of the Filon between all the framing members.
In theory, this would be stronger as well as more insulative because the urethane foam would adhere better to the Filon than the cardboard and would fill all the voids between the framing members. (instead of just cutting styrofoam and pushing it into place between the framing members with some adhesive.) Wrangler then shaved down the foam so it was even with the frame and laminated a sheet of ABS onto it instead of plywood for the bed area.
But he didn't remove all the Filon as I'm doing because he didn't have the extensive rot problems I have. In my case, I'm anticipating removal of the entire Filon sheet, cleaning it up, replacing pieces of the frame that need it while beefing it up.
Does this method make sense? Is there any other particular reason I need the cardboard between the Filon and frame?
----------
Besides build quality and how long it might last, I wonder how the $29 "multifunction tool" from Harbor Freight my work compared to the Sonicrafter? I've never used one before so I'm not sure how often I would use it in the future. (Perhaps it's one of those tools I never knew I needed?)
Thus far, I've been able to very, very carefully pull the Filon away because the cardboard splits where it is still dry and, obviously falls apart where it is wet. But I don't want to curl it back too much while doing this - which is necessary if I wanted to get my hand - and thus a razor knife or tool - to where it is laminated. If I run into a difficult spot, I was considering using my machete to slice if off like slicing off a thin piece from a giant turkey.
Perhaps this tool will be necessary to use like an electric shaver to clean up the Filon of residual cardboard? I was thinking of laying the Filon onto plywood and then hosing it down and scraping off the cardboard with a plaster knife.
(I'd have this thing peeled off by now except I'm having to attend to 2 sick kids . .. Hopefully I can dig into it tomorrow and get it all the way off and thus have a clearer picture of the total damage. )
* This post was
edited 09/22/09 05:28pm by Fat Fox *
The Chicago Electric tool that comes from Harbor Freight is junk. I bought one from HF and it got hot and quit after 30 minutes when removing some thin set. Also the scraper blade was made of poor steel and the thin set ate it up. Harbor freight did give me my money back because the manager recommended it to me. I know it cost only $29 where the Dremel at Lowes is $100 and the Rockwell/Sonicrafter $139 to $179 with more tools. I spent the $179 for the Sonicrafter and it was 10 times better than the HF and it had a lot more tools. The Sonicrafter did the work that the HF tool would not. The Sonicrafter comes with a rasp blade as well as the saws, scraper, polisher, sander, grout removal blade, dust removal and 9 speed. I had to use it because I was cutting wood frame members behind the luan/filon working from the bottom of the camper. To do my job without this tool, I would have had to remove the luan/filon which was in good shape.
What u refer to as cardboard is probably luan.....wood on one side composite on the other. The wood side glues very well to FRP using water based FRP adhesive. and the other side glues well to wood frame. When gluing your Filon back on do not use solvent based FRP adhesive as it will leave bubbles and waves like your picture shows on your camper nose. Luan does not like water but I am not afraid to use it. With proper camper sealing u should be ok. I used door skins from Lowe's in place of regular luan $11 for a 3 X 8 and it is 1/8 inch whereas reg luan is 5/32. A regular palm sander will remove the residual luan so you really only need this type of tool for blind plunge cuts of wood frame. You can make square cuts. Fein has a infomercial running on TV about their too (7 in 1) and you can see a vidio of the sonicrafter on the net.
since you are removing the filon you might be able to access the rot frame with just a saws all.
I plan on being very careful in sealing the camper and checking at least every 6 month by pressure testing. My water damage was my own fault. The construction was very good. When I climbed on the roof to clean it I found the caulking cracked from age and sun. Probably, the camper should be recaulked every year.
Lance advises me to soften the old caulk with a heat gun so I picked up a super hair drier at the local Goodwill thrift shop today for a dollar .
Sorry about the sick kids. I am off tomorrow 650 miles to see my granddaughter
* This post was
edited 09/22/09 11:05pm by lance88lover *
FF1063 wrote: AF beefed up the tie down brackets in 2005. They added aluminum 'L' brackets inside along the bulkheads as well. Have not heard of any issues since.
This looks like an improvement but the bracket has a cantalever effect when working against only 3/8 ply. Possibly if the ply was 3/4 or reinforced with steel instead of aluminum on the backside it might be OK. 3/8 ply has been replaced with 11/32 from lumber companies which makes it even weaker. That ply is commonly used by roofers to nail felt and shingles on. 3/4 ply would be a better choice or at least 17/32.
* This post was
edited 09/22/09 10:53pm by lance88lover *
Offline
Or epoxy or low expansion urethane foam you would have one solid camper! 
Hopefully I can dig into it tomorrow and get it all the way off and thus have a clearer picture of the total damage. )
.
