Gadget Guy wrote: It boils down to terrible management. If a company has to much debt load it will fail because any type of a glitch that comes along they don't have the cash to survive.
While bad management decisions and incentives may have contributed no one planned for the kind of financial collapse that has happened. Could they have set aside better for a rainy day of course, but as Daveinet stated these are different business times.
Look at the businesses that are not luxury or disposable income based that are on the ropes even with a decent business plan.
As for us as consumers it is never good for when manufacturer's bow out or are gobbled up by a competitor, less competition never benefits the consumer.
Ray, Cheryl, Cory & of course Miss Molly the four-legged child
RVUSA wrote: Actually it boils down to bad management contracts. Ever heard of the term, "golden parachute"? They all had them and that in itself was enough to entice behavior that far exceeded the risk bounds.
They knew failure was but a market adjustment away, but they simply didnt have to care. They personally were covered.
IF the company goes into any stage of Bankruptcy, the "Golden Parachutes" are void. That is why Monaco had to finally file bankruptcy. Both the Chairman and the President had large GP's and that hindered someone coming in and buying Monaco or helping them out. They kept hoping someone would rescue them and then buy them out (GP). Didn't happen. Doug
Carbon Foot prints,Carbon Taxes,loans coming due,payrolls to meet,pension funds payments to meet,taxes to pay,material suppliers to pay,(vendors)and on and on. They all saw the writing on the wall and the various company leaders figured it was a good time to take the spoils and checkout. How many of them are living on the street after losing their homes,cars,boats,planes,and other assorted items?Which off shore bank houses their funds from their golden parachutes along with the rest of what they could beg, borrow, or steal? Basically they are all doing fine in their personal lives after hiding out behind our bankruptcy laws. Their customers should be so lucky.
I would also comment that we out here, really have no idea what the real profit margins of these companies are or their expenses. While some of the collapse may have been predictable, what does one do in the mean time. As long as people are buying coaches, you build coaches. IF one sees trouble in the future, what do you do? You try to save up extra funds to carry you over. But where does that money come from????? Your business plan operates at a specific margin. That is all you have, you can't invent money out of thin air leading up to a collapse that you believe is going to happen. Your sales volume requires you to employ a certain number of people and buy a certain amount of supplies. If you cut back on either, you can't build coaches. Until your sales volume drops, you can't make any cut to save money. Believe me, the people that run these companies, run them as lean as possible already. Where are you going to get the money to save up for the rainy day?
But who is pointing fingers?? If I have an investment, I try to get the highest margin possible. If I sense some thing bad is going to happen at the company I've invested in, what do we all do? SELL! Oops, isn't that the same thing as a golden parachute? Any investment you try to get out while the getting is good. Are you ripping off the people you sell your investment to? Nope, that's just business and all of us do the same thing. Even though an exec might make a few million, that may only be a small percentage on the total investment. They may have millions tide up in the company, and may have lost millions, but should they loose their house too? Should you loose your house if one of your investments goes bad?
Dave
FMCA F298817
'83 Revcon Prince 31' FWD
502 w/Howell/Edelbrock MPFI, Thorley's & Magnaflows,
Koni FSD, Class A built for gear heads ?????? Revconeers Forum
There is nothing compassionate about taking someone elses money and giving to the poor.
The combined run up in fuel prices and the very bad recession was a bit more than some of the RV companies planned for. And of course the ones that had borrowed a lot have the most problems. The ones that have cash reserves can weather the storms until better times come back. I just saw my first Winn Via today in person. For people who are going to vacation and do weekends this looks to be a great coach. The future I think. Of course folks who spend months or full time will need bigger ones. But the Via at 15mpg and everything you need (maybe not everything you want) is where the motor home industry is going.
Bob & Barbara Nuttmann
2002 Country Coach Affinity 42'
Jamul, CA
Just history repeating itself. In 1972 when gas went from 25 cents to a dollar a gallon, and even got scarce at that price RV manufacturers and Campgrounds went out of business all over the country. No different this time, except the units are 15-20 foot longer and the prices have a couple of extra "0's".
Some will become orphan junk, some collectibles, and others will re-invent themselves to satisfy the "new norm" that evolves. Having tasted this lifestyle, how many of you are ready to abandon it rather than adjust as necessary? Will none of the "baby boomer retirees (when they reorder their finances and are able to) join us down/on the road? My prediction is that in the next decade we'll see a revival that starts with smaller, high tech RV's that grow over time. Ken Burns series starring this countrys fabulous National Park treasures could well be the catalyst that begins to create action at dealerships with sustainable business models.
I drove my first RV, the newly introduced Ford Camper Special pickup, with cabover camper, off the lot 44 years ago (that pickup cost me a whopping $2,700). There was even a magazine devoted exclusively to pickup campers then. Two class A's, two class B's and a van since then, and I fully expect find someone making an RV to replace my 10 year old Class A 4-5 years down the road.
Wes
"A beach house isn't just real estate. It's a state of mind." Pole Sitter in Douglas Adams MOSTLY HARMLESS
moisheh wrote: Fleetwood is the only RV mfr. that handled the banruptcy properly. Their cutomers and dealers were treated with respect. The Motor Home mfrg. was purchased by an investment company and it appears they really want this company to succeed. Beginning in Oct. FW will be offering a Spartan Chassis!! I would watch this company closely as they may surprise us all with a well built unit!!
Moisheh
I already have Spartan Modules with the Liberty Chassis . Dont want an all Spartan chassis . Already have a well built unit .
Bill and Patti
Gizmo a Black face Tri-color Pembroke Welsh Corgi
Laci a Red and White PWC
06 Fleetwood Revolution LE 40E
05 Hyundai Elantra Toad
Member, Revolution Owners Group,FMCA,CAT RV Engine Owners Club
www.revolutionmotorhome@yahoogroups.com
I lost money on investments too, but there's a reason I did NOT file Chapter 11, nor lose my house and other real property.
If I had been the owner of an RV manufacturing facility, I would be one of the small/trim companies because the way I do business would NOT allow me to become BIG,.....on borrowed money. This same approach to life, would NEVER land me a job as a CEO of a huge company either.
Yet, I see that Newmar and Tiffin are still afloat, weathering the storm. I spoke to Brian Fuchs at Newmar the other day,....I was impressed.
Willie & Betty Sue
Miko & Sparky
2003 41 ft Dutch Star Diesel Pusher/Spartan
Floorplan 4010
Blazer toad & Ranger bassboat
Offline
