bomre340
So Cal
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Yesterday I experienced brake failure with my 2003 Winnebago Adventurer 35U on the Workhorse W-22 Chassis! To all who have this chassis be forewarned that the recall on "brake fade" is something to pay attention to. The brake failure came out of nowhere after returning from a 3000 miles trip without any prior problem with the braking system. The only precursor to the brake failure was that I thought I noticed a slight "drag" on the motor home for the last 30 miles before the brake failure. 2 miles before the brake failure the coach stopped normal at a stop light. 2 miles later, the pedal went to the floor when the brakes were applied. The brakes came back after pumping but were very "soft." I pulled over and noticed the right rear tire and axle were hot and smelled "burning brakes." After letting it set for a couple of hours to cooling off, the brakes were totally normal, again. Thank goodness for the recall. I wouldn't want to fight this battle with Workhorse. I am taking it in on Monday.
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trop-a-cal
Palm Coast Fl
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Joined: 09/24/2007
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You boiled your brake fluid and that made the air come to the top of the master cylinder. It happens when calipers don't release from the rotor, due to many reasons. One being broken pads jamed on top of the remaing pad, another being frozen caliper pistons, due to rust or if they are composite material the binding of the material in the piston cylinder. All that fluid has to come out, as it now is bad. New DOT fluid that has a higher boiling temperature has to be put in and calipers bled. The air also gets into the ABS sysyem and has to come out. That requires the cap to come off the master cylinder and a slow pump to get all air out, then a topping off of the fluid. I'm sure they will do it as per recall, but others that have that problem, and are not subject to recall, need to understand the symptoms and the fix. The rotor that burnt now needs to be replaced or the brakes will grab on the high spots created by the burn. Just turning them is not going to guaranty they will be even, as some hot spots return, so new ones are the way to go, as labor is excessive to just turn them vs replacing the rotors. The wheel bearings also probably were boiled and may need replacement if the rubber seals have melted, and the bearings show flat spots.
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Nascarcruzin
Home is where the RV is parked.
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I recently lost my motorhome to a fire. I had a 2003 LaPalma with the W22 chassis. After having 2 brake failures I replaced the entire brake system at a cost of $1700.00 in parts alone. Workhorse now says they will not reimburse me because I bought my parts 2 months before their so called cutoff date. I really feel the fire was caused by a defective caliper, as the fire started in the left rear wheel area. So anyone who has any type of brake problem, please be careful you might end up like me without a motorhome. Ronnie (If I could prove my suspicions I would sue Workhorse, but there was nothing left but the bare frame)
Ronnie
Ronnie & Rebecca
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newxmar
East Otis, MA
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Baby those Workhorse brakes!!! Have toad brakes. Use the Allison transmission downshift switches to slow down. Slow down well in advance of the exit. On long downhill grades start at a slow speed and use engine braking. Do all possible to stay off the brakes (and create heat)!!!!!
I just looked at my "recall" letter from Workhorse and it is dated May, 2009. How long do we wait for Workhorse to do as promised in the letter?????
Despite all the explainations----My engineering theory on this problem is that the plastic pistons expand faster than the steel bore when things start to heat up. Then heat builds upon more heat when the calipers stick. So don't let the brakes heat up much!!
In our previous 1999 F-53 Ford chassis, the Ford mechanic changed the pistons fromn plastic to steel within the first year of ownership. What did he know in 1999??
I think Workhorse/Bosch knows what to do, but want to avoid a recall/good repair. We will see this thing stretched out and out.
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miket
Southwick, Ma
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Joined: 10/16/2000
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Bosch has not yet released a certified replacement caliper. Right now there is no actual recall, that will happen when Bosch decides to get the calipers certified and into production. Right now all you can get is the same calipers you have.
This subject is covered at iRV2.com and at RV Forum.net
Latest info is the pistons are swelling cone shaped, fatter toward the pad. If new pads are installed on the original caliper the piston is more apt to bind since the piston is pushed back into the bore more.
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Mike T
2005 Winnebago Voyage 33V, Workhorse W20, with '06 CR-V in tow, SMI 4 wire Braking system, Blue Ox Underskirt, Pressure Pro.
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C-Leigh Racing
Nashville NC
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So its all about composit plastic pistons in the calipers on the Ford brakes.
How dumb does an engineer need to be to know high heat & plastic dont go to good together.
Neil
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gonzo71
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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C-Leigh Racing wrote:So its all about composit plastic pistons in the calipers on the Ford brakes.
How dumb does an engineer need to be to know high heat & plastic dont go to good together.
Neil
Ford??
We are talking about Workhorse here.
I am sure that the new pistons will be phenolic as well. Using stainless will be to expensive. Also stainless steel will give all the heat right to the brake fluid making the brake fluid even hotter. The phenolic piston insulated some of the heat from the brake fluid keeping it cooler.
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2002 Holiday Rambler Vacationer 34SBD, W22 Workhorse, 8.1L Vortec
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FrontRangeRVer
8,600 feet elevation in the Rockies
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gonzo71 wrote:
I am sure that the new pistons will be phenolic as well. Using stainless will be to expensive. Also stainless steel will give all the heat right to the brake fluid making the brake fluid even hotter. The phenolic piston insulated some of the heat from the brake fluid keeping it cooler.
Are you sure about this? I hear the pistons in the replacement calipers will be steel.
2006 Winnebago Voyage 35A
W-22 Chassis
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graddy0051
home
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I am ASE certified master mechanic with 39years exp.I first remember seeing the phenolic piston calipers in the 1970's on Chrysler products(cars, trucks and RVs).We called them"plastic pistons".They would swell up in the calipers and cause the pads to wear prematurely sometimes ruining the rotors. The best cure was to replace with metal pistons.We replaced hundreds of these in my shop. Then they began to show up in Ford products-same results-didn't work. Next GM started using them-still didn't work. Now wer'e talking about them showing up in our RVs made in the 2000's . They still don't and never have worked. Even today when I inspect a customer's brakes, if I see he has the phenolic I let them know what they have and that there is a possibility of failure. When you have me do a brake job,I always recommend replacement with metal.Tommorrow my RV is going in for the 2nd time for brake lock up due to this problem.If I know what problem is,why doesn't workhorse?
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gonzo71
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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FrontRangeRVer wrote:gonzo71 wrote:
I am sure that the new pistons will be phenolic as well. Using stainless will be to expensive. Also stainless steel will give all the heat right to the brake fluid making the brake fluid even hotter. The phenolic piston insulated some of the heat from the brake fluid keeping it cooler.
Are you sure about this? I hear the pistons in the replacement calipers will be steel.
No I don't. But if we are already having problems with boiling brake fluid, how will a metal piston help. WH will continue to tell us that we don't know how to brake and will blame us on failing brakes due to overheating. if they go metal, is has to be stainless otherwise with our kind of useage it will rust and we get sticking brakes again in a few years. Stainless cost a fortune. The ideal material may be ceramic, since it will conduct heat poorly and is by itself heat resistant and will not be affected by moisture.
Also keep in mind that the problem with the phenolic pistons only show up in the RV application. There are commercial trucks, busses etc. out there with the same brakes and no problem. This shows me that there is no fundamental problem with the phenolic piston unlike the believe of the previous poster. So the low usage of our vehicles maybe to blaim and that the piston simply sits in brake fluid that contains to much water and the piston will absorbe the water. If we now get metal pistons and still have the mooisture sitting in the bake fluid the metal will rust.
I can understand why it takes Bosch a while to come up with a solution since simply replacing the piston with a metal piston may not be the long term solution.
* This post was
edited 10/26/09 09:49pm by gonzo71 *
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