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Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > No AC power from Generac 36

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BillS

Mount Pleasant, TX

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Posted: 11/24/11 05:17am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

big whitey wrote:

....sure would be nice if Honda/Yamaha offered a built in model,SIGH. again all the above reflects my experiences and is my opinion,YMMV.


Honda did make a built in type RV generator at one time, 4KW with a Honda liquid cooled engine, a Model EV4000 and EV4010.

Bill


'03 Lance 1121
'03 Dodge 3500 Diesel Dually

88lover

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Posted: 11/25/11 05:19pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I don't see any replacement for the impact 36 with like output. the Onan is weak and the stronger KW Onan's won't fit in the compartment. and the Honda I will have to agree with BillS.

Bill, I have read your post about dismount. On my Lance, the wires for the 12 pin and the 4 wires that go to the bridge rectifier are sealed through a plate.

So, I guess I will have to first disconnect the inverter, then tie a pull string to the wires, open the caulked service plate and pull the wires as I drop the generator out the bottom.

Setting up the test bench will be a pain. I guess I can use one of the camper bottles of LG but will have to buy a regulator and hose and connections. Since the generator has it's own prime and start run switch, I can leave the remote controls in the camper and can pick up a pair of battery cables in any auto parts store.

I am encouraged that I found a distributor with a true parts department who have the cross referance guide to all of the parts listed in my owners manual.
I just hope that it is not the inverter itself that is fried.

Can U give me a list of the fittings and length of lpg hose I will need and also a heads up on where would be the best place to shop?

Thanks guys for all your help

* This post was edited 11/25/11 05:26pm by 88lover *





88lover

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Posted: 11/26/11 11:24am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Was able to open up the inverter today. The 12 pin at the inverter end unplugs easilly and can only be inserted one way so no problem.

The red,black,blue,green wires that go back to the Diodes-bridge rectifier at the generator are contained in a lug box mounted on the side of the inverter. The wires are cable encased and I traced them back through the wall to a junction box where they were connected with wire nuts to wires that were encased in metal flex conduit and then entered the generator through a angle connector.

The AC voltage wires came off the Inverter through a second junction box. Even though the camper was connected to 120v at the time, there was no voltage across these lines (generator not running), so I guess there may be a transfer switch somewhere in the camper. I see a control center for the camper with a converter under the step right below the fuse pannel. Could the converter be doing a dual purpose of converting 120 to 12v and switching between shore power and generator power?
Could the converter be causing the problem?

Before I go further, I plan to disconnect the 120v shore power, start the generator, and with my meter, see if there is 120v comming off the inverter. I might be saving myself some grief.

BillS

Mount Pleasant, TX

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Posted: 11/26/11 06:11pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

While you are in the inverter, you can check the voltages. These are instructions I have in my file:

Disconnect the wires from the AC junction box and make sure the connections are tight in both boxes. The other box has 4 wires; these are the DC wires coming from the generator. Caution: DC voltage can injure just as bad as AC, especially since the voltage coming out of the generator is approximately 400 VDC. So you'll want to do this without the generator running.

Once you have confirmed that the wires are tight, start the generator with the AC wires still removed. This will assure that there is no load whatsoever on the generator. Check the AC voltage coming out of the AC side of the inverter and check the DC side as well. The voltages on the DC side are as follows:

Red to Blue = 375-400 VDC+
Red to Black = 185 VDC+
Blue to Black = 185 VDC-

Bill

BillS

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Posted: 11/26/11 06:18pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Deleted Post

* This post was edited 11/26/11 07:34pm by BillS *

BillS

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Posted: 11/27/11 04:54am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

88lover wrote:

Bill, I have read your post about dismount. On my Lance, the wires for the 12 pin and the 4 wires that go to the bridge rectifier are sealed through a plate.

So, I guess I will have to first disconnect the inverter, then tie a pull string to the wires, open the caulked service plate and pull the wires as I drop the generator out the bottom.

Setting up the test bench will be a pain. I guess I can use one of the camper bottles of LG but will have to buy a regulator and hose and connections. Since the generator has it's own prime and start run switch, I can leave the remote controls in the camper and can pick up a pair of battery cables in any auto parts store.

I am encouraged that I found a distributor with a true parts department who have the cross referance guide to all of the parts listed in my owners manual.
I just hope that it is not the inverter itself that is fried.

Can U give me a list of the fittings and length of lpg hose I will need and also a heads up on where would be the best place to shop?

Thanks guys for all your help


All the electrical connections can be disconnected in the generator compartment. The battrery cables should be obvious. There is a control wire harness that unplugs on the side of the generator and the wiring to the inverter is connected inside the electrical box on the wall of the generator compartment with wire nuts. Disconnect the LP gas line, remove the mounting bolts and it's out.

For the fuel hose for bench testing, I used a piece of Stratoflex hose I made up years ago for a LP gas heater and a LP gas bottle with a regulator attached. For 12-volts to start the generator, I used jumper cables to a battery. You will have to improvise control wires to start and stop the generator. It will crank, but won't run by jumpering across the starter solenoid.

Bill

88lover

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Posted: 11/27/11 12:27pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks Bill,
I did not know it would be decessary to disconnect the AC wires from the inverter terminal to test for AC voltage. I did plan on measuring the DC voltages but did not know the values.

You are right about the converter box which has a magic minder attached. It appears that this unit (I don't know the model number yet) was the one that N mentioned that has a built in automatic transfer switch. This switch appears to prevent AC from backfeeding to the generator.

I also did not know I would have to rig a generator kill switch as I did not realize the only one I had was mounted on the remote control panel and not on the generator itself. Doesn't SW1 on the generator perform this function of start, run, stop?

I also note a little 3" black box in the generator compartment that is not shown on the schematics. Could this be the transfer switch? The black box is shown on the picture of the generator.

My plan is to
1. determine if AC is output from the generator itself>pass>pull transfer switch/converter. Fail>
2. Test DC voltages
3. Test control circuit through 12pin
4. pull generator

* This post was last edited 11/27/11 01:30pm by 88lover *   View edit history

BillS

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Posted: 11/27/11 07:01pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I don't know what year and model camper you have. I doubt the transfer switch is near your generator. It should be close to the entrance of the 120-volt electric cable. The automatic transfer switch in my '03 Lance model 1121 is located under the kitchen sink on the wall near the range. It is right inside the storage compartment that holds the 120-volt electric cable. The automatic transfer switch has a label on it, but I don't recall the brand name.

Just to check the voltage, you shouldn't have to disconnect the 120-volt AC wires on the inverter output. I was checking my generator for a different problem and it was necessary to disconnect the wires to completely isolate the generator.

Bill

* This post was edited 11/28/11 04:22am by BillS *

NRALIFR

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Posted: 11/27/11 09:59pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Before pulling the generator, I'd try to make darn sure that transfer switch isn't causing the problem. I'm afraid I'm completely in the dark regarding the transfer switch Lance used because as I said, my camper doesn't have one.

Just thinking logically though, it seems to me that since you get AC power into the camper just fine when plugged into shore power, you might be able to wire the generator output around the transfer switch by disconnecting the generator output in the junction box inside the generator compartment, and rigging up a temporary cable connected directly to the plug on the end of the shore power cord. All you would need is some Romex and a TT-30 receptacle.

The transfer switch's default position is probably shore power anyway.

You mentioned you have a polarity checker or something plugged in under the sink in your camper. What's it plugged into? Is the receptacle it's plugged into a regular AC duplex outlet, or is it on some built-in device? I think the transfer switch is going to be close to where the shore power cord comes into the camper as well, or possibly close to the power center where the AC breakers are.




2001 Lance 1121 on a 2010 F450


BillS

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Posted: 11/28/11 04:41am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

NRALIFR wrote:

Before pulling the generator, I'd try to make darn sure that transfer switch isn't causing the problem. I'm afraid I'm completely in the dark regarding the transfer switch Lance used because as I said, my camper doesn't have one.

The transfer switch's default position is probably shore power anyway.



You are correct, the transfer switch default position is for 120-volt shore power; however, he needs to check the output voltage of the inverter. If the Geneerac generator inverter isn't producing 120-volts AC, the transfer switch will not automatically transfer from shore power to generator powwer. It is important to check the input voltage to the inverter from the generator to see if the proper DC voltage is going to the inverter. If the DC voltage into the inverter is correct, and the ouptput voltage isn't, then the problem is the inverter and/or control board. If the DC voltage into the inverter isn't correct, then the problem is in the generator, possibly a control board and/or a stator problem.

Bill

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