Every RV I've purchased where I negotiated the price, my negotiations were for an out-the-door price and it includes everything the dealer will be receiving. Sales tax and title fees are paid to the STATE not the dealer in Kansas. If your state allows the DEALER to collect sales tax or licensing fees then he will have no CHOICE in the matter. Anything else he tries to add would be against the "out the door" price we'd agreed on and would be a deal killer for me.
Thank you Skip, that is what I am talking about. Some people did not understand the post, I am NOT talking about tags and taxes to the state, I am talking about the dealer "doc fees" for doing nothing!
I'm not complaining about paying for the cost of service. If it costs the dealership $X for overhead, then he has every right to collect that cost on the price of the vehicle. My ***** is when the out-the-door price has been negotiated, everything is agreed upon, then when the time to write the check comes there is suddenly another charge. That is unethical.
A group of us met of about 10 at Ryan's this morning with each paying ticket. We were wondering why our tickets ran more than expected. The 15% tip was collected before we saw any food or service. In my case it saved me 13 cents however.
I like others do not like charges that we did not expect to show up on the final $$$ amount.
By the way a tip collected when you walk through the door feels more like a cover charge to me. Tips are to be earned.
I would like to compliment Sooner Schooner for pointing out the very deceptive and unethical practice. I hope some people who have been deceived in the past will recognize dealer's "Doc" fees for what they are, which is just supplemental profit.
I have 2 stories to tell about doc fees, both of which are somewhat humorous.
I was at a large RV dealership in Anniston Alabama where the salesman sprang the doc fee on me as a line item in the quote. I told him I thought it ought to read "Supplemental Profit" instead. He became indignant and stated that the preparation of sales documents was a legitimate cost of doing business and their fee was reasonable. (Of course, they hope most people will just assume it is some State or Federal Government fee they are required to collect). I told him that I just went to the restroom and asked him why that equally important part of doing business was not itemized. I then asked him to list his personal commission on the sale as that was also a legitimate part of doing business. He declined, but was unable to explain to me why they itemized paperwork expenses but did not itemize facility maintenance or salesman commissions in the quote. In the end, there is absolutely no difference.
When I bought my tow vehicle, the dealership tried to charge me a $500 doc fee. I told them that I wouldn't pay it. The salesman went away and came back with a quote that still had the $500 doc fee on it but the overall price was reduced by $500. I agreed and paid for the truck. The next day, I went to the Courthouse to buy a tag and after standing in line for an hour, discovered that my name was spelled wrong on the title application. I had to go back to the dealer to get it fixed before getting a tag. I went back to the dealership in a very bad mood. The girl at the front desk told me I would have to wait for the guy who filled out the paperwork originally and that could be 30 minutes or more. I immediately demanded to see the general manager. When he walked up, I explained to him that I had been charged $500 for 15 minutes worth of paperwork (equivalent to $2000 per hour!) and asked him if i had a right to expect perfection at that rate. He agreed. I then told him to either refund my $500 for defective service or fix his mistake immediately. It took an additional 5 minutes to get the paperwork corrected and the GM took care of it himself. If they had jsut deleted the phoney $500 charge to start with, I would never have been so demanding.
So Cedarhil, they removed the $500.00 from the sale price as you asked, then when there was a mistake on the paperwork that you did not pay for, you accused them of charging you $2000.00/hour to do the paperwork in a very bad mood? You even suggested they should "refund" you the $500.00 doc fee that you really didnt pay.....seems as this is very "deceptive" as well. jmho
I rarely buy new, but when I do I am up front that I am negotiating the drive out price. I don't care how they make their money or what they label it, I just want to deal with "how much do you want for it" and "how much will I pay for it"
That is what I did also. I want to know what number I write on the check and that is the number I ask for.
That's exactly how I negotiate these deals. Tell them this is my "out-the-door" price. I could care less how they arrive there - if they have a mandatory $200 fee, then they can lower the price by $200. In Califorinia, the dealer collects the tax & registration (DMV) fees too, and that's included in my price. That's the amount of the check I'm willing to write.
It also helps a lot to do your own financing - both in terms of writing a check for the amount you agree to pay, and for the negotiation process, as they can't keep changing the financing terms to manipulate the numbers.
2003 Country Coach Intrigue, Cummins ISL 400
Toad: 2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (LJ) toad, with just a few mods...
Other rig: 2005 Chevy Silverado 3500 Duramax Dually / Next Level 38CK Fifth-wheel Toy Hauler w/ quads, sand rail, etc...
I did one of those write a check in the amount I will pay for the car deals one time, and they accepted it. So I signed the papers as they were getting the car ready. In a little while I noticed increased activity in the showroom, and after a few minutes the sales manager came up to me and told me they had lost my check, and asked if I would please write them another one. He was slightly embarrassed, but since I had purchased several cars from them and had a good relationship with them I called the bank and arranged for a stop payment and wrote them a new check.
Wonder what they would have done had I not been the nice guy I am, and had already left the dealership with the car before they discovered the missing check?