I was going to stay out of this, but guess I'll throw my two cents worth in. You Canadians don't have a history with Mexico like we Americans do. War in 1848, invading in 1914, etc. We have had a love/hate relationship with Mexico for a long time. Much more so than with you guys in the fridgid north. And the US DOES have many natural attractions. Why go to Mexico when we can go to Death Valley, San Diego County, El Centro, Aridzona, the Rio Grand Valley, the Gulf Coast, Florida, etc. and the roads are marginally better too. Yes, many do believe all the news reports. We live in Northern Nevada, and hardly ever hear about how many murders there are in St Louis. We can get the news from the San Francisco bay area, otherwise we wouldn't hear about all the murders in Oakland. The only reason I know how dangerous Canada is, is because of all my Canadian friends I have made down here in La Penita telling me about Surrey, Toronto etc. What about the RVers that were murdered in Alberta last year, we wouldn't have heard about them except by reading about them here on the forum. There was fairly wide coverage about the two RVers that were murdered in New Mexico, but that was because of the excaped convicts that did the job. I don't think that Canadians are any braver than Americans, just a different mind set, or maybe we aren't as naive.
Stan & Linda
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I would opine that many people don't go to Mexico out of unease about the situation in there, as they perceive it. I would opine that that unease is shaped by a media that makes its livelihood out of sensationalism. You categorize that unease as fear; how many of them would categorize it is discretion. How many of the people you say are afraid, wouldn't go to Mexico, violence or no violence? You are painting with a wide brush.
The US State Department says there are millions of US citizens who travel in Mexico every year. And, according to the State Department, there are more than a million US citizens who live in Mexico. Do you suppose they are forced to do so, in spite of their fears?
I mentioned before and you seem to ignore, that there is far less incentive for US residents to travel to Mexico in the winter than there is for Canadian citizens to travel south.
There are far more Canadians that winter in the US than winter in Mexico. Is that because they are afraid to do so? I imagine they have lots of reasons.
On edit: Added the italicize question it the first paragraph.
Tom
* This post was
edited 01/14/12 03:53pm by pulsar *
This has been mentioned in other threads but the RV'r of today is much different than say 20 or 30 years ago. Back then the Americans out numbered the Canadians. For us Mexico was just too far way. Today's RV'r likely has a newer unit and many of them are quite large. These people fear the roads rather than the cartels. Today's RV'r would want CG's with amenities. Not very many of these in Mexico. Too many dated CG's with tight spots , bad electricity and no water pressure. For most of us on this forum those factors are unimportant but the winter Texans, Floridians and the AZ folks would not put up with the lack of proper facilities. Of course there is some new "blood" every year but not many. So even if the media did not poison the minds of their viewers I really think that RVing in Mexico will never be like it was. The fear of violence affecting their vacation becomes the "last straw".
There are a great many more reasons to go to Mexico than the weather and there are a great many things to be seen in Mexico that you will never see in the US. We go there for many many reasons. I cannot even begin to relate those reasons or our experiences in Mexico here. When we think of or see pictures of pyramids it is almost always of Egypt yet the largest and third largest pyramids in the world are in Mexico - though most Americans probably do not know that. You will not find any of them in the the US. So many places to see and things to do - and we almost never go to the beaches. We spend most of our travels in the US and are still totally in awe of the US as well. We spend about 8 months per year roaming around the US. But Mexico is very different and that is why we enjoy it so much.
As far as fear - and I have said this many times in many ways - I have been going to Mexico for 40 years (on and off) and what I hear all of the time from the vast majority of Americans - including friends and family - is they will not go to Mexico because they are afraid. I have heard this throughout the 40 years. That is what they tell me. I still do not know why. Yes, a broad brush. Life is a broad brush.
In 1848 the US invaded Mexico and took much of what is now the southwest US from Mexico. In 1914 Pancho Villa made a raid a few miles across the border into the US and then immediately turned around and went back to Mexico.
I continue to hear all of this. All I am saying is I personally have never experienced any of it in all my time in Mexico. People report stuff but I have no personal knowledge of any of it.
briansue wrote: ...
As far as fear - and I have said this many times in many ways - I have been going to Mexico for 40 years (on and off) and what I hear all of the time from the vast majority of Americans - including friends and family - is they will not go to Mexico because they are afraid. I have heard this throughout the 40 years. That is what they tell me. I still do not know why. Yes, a broad brush. Life is a broad brush.
...
You have come no where close to talking with the majority of US citizens.
briansue wrote: In 1914 Pancho Villa made a raid a few miles across the border into the US and then immediately turned around and went back to Mexico.
After Villa crossed the border and shot up Columbus New Mexico, General "Black" Jack Pershing led an expeditionary force into northern Mexico and chased Villa around for several months, catching nothing. If I remember right, it was the US Army's first use of motorised vehicles and airplanes. BTW he also led an American expeditionary force into France a few years later. He got the nickname "Black Jack" when he was the Commanding Officer of one of the Black Regiments in the American southwest.
Sorry Tom - I definitely mis-spoke there - I meant the majority of those I have spoken with. One of the unfortunate things about communicating on one of these forums is we can use one word incorrectly or leave one out or whatever and be completely misunderstood.
I always found it strange how people react to things. I worked in Colorado for many years and whenever there was a news item in the paper or whatever about a murder in Mexico my co-workers would all say how they would never go to Mexico - and almost half of them were Mexican-American US citizens. They would not go to Mexico because they heard of one murder but they went to Denver all the time where we heard of more murders than we heard of in Mexico - this was years ago before the drug war.
One friend was born in the US but grew up speaking Spanish so had accented English. He went to Cancun and I asked if he went out and explored nearby areas and he said no - he did not leave the hotel. I asked if he at least went down on the beach and he said no he did not leave the hotel. There are many of the same sort of stories and many conversations I have had over many years where people insist that Mexico is just far to dangerous - and again - this was before the current "war". It is much worse now. The media has been spreading this sort of thing for as long as I have been alive. It is just unfortunate that so many have come to believe it. It is not my intent to argue with anyone or upset anyone - I am just trying to relate may experiences. And I find it really strange that so many people who have never been to Mexico think they know something about Mexico when most of them know next to nothing about Mexico.
We have been to Columbus many times and stayed in the campground where the remains of the fort Pancho attacked is. We cross the border there to go to a dentist and eye doctor in Palomas - which also happens to be one of the easiest and fastest border crossings. I think maybe most Americans don't know most of the southwest was part of Mexico and last I read in the census more than 30% of the population of the 4 "border states" are of Mexican heritage.
stanbnv wrote: You Canadians don't have a history with Mexico like we Americans do. War in 1848, invading in 1914, etc.
"etc" is the important word here.
Let's all not be so naive. Canadians not having the history with Mexico and Latin America should be a good thing, in relation to RV'ing. For those that don't click-and-read: "The stakes of the covert game are quite high, for all those on the ground who are touched by it, including innocent citizens".
"innocent citizens" are the important words here,
P.S. Edit: yes I have travelled to Mexico and Latin America. Great enjoyable places.
* This post was
edited 01/15/12 02:40am by UltimaRV *
Dian, Robert & Precious (taking a break - see profile)
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I have to agree - "innocent citizens" are the important words here - which is at least part of the point I keep trying to make. If we are to believe any of the statistics that have been put out by various sources (and I am not saying I believe any of them) the number of murders of cartel members killing cartel members in Mexico outnumber the number of "innocent citizens" killed in Mexico by a ratio of about 50 to 1 (I have no idea and not making any claims but that seems to be approximately what the numbers seem to add up to). In the US we have not seen any statistics from DOJ or FBI that tell us how many of the numbers in their statistics are criminals killing criminals or "innocent citizens" being killed by whoever.
Way back when I was a kid growing up in a suburb of NYC we never ever locked our house - even when we went away on vacation. At one point there was some question about where the key to the front door was and we never did find it. We did not worry about crime. My fathers job in NYC (he commuted) was a crime reporter for one of the NYC daily newspapers so he certainly knew there was crime - but apparently not in the burbs. Today, my brother lives in that same house and has a very sophisticated security system and all kinds of locks and motion sensing lights and every security device you can think of. Each night he does security patrol to make sure every window and door is locked.
In recent years we hear of how many people in the US are buying guns to protect themselves and on RV forums we read of RVers who travel with guns to protect themselves. WHAT IS GOING ON?
Regular sensationalized news reports in the US tell of crazy people shooting people in beauty salons and IHOP restaurants - seems every week or so there is another report. Most of the people we hear of dying in these reports are "innocent citizens".
So the point I keep trying to make has to do with why does anyone think the risks are any greater one place or the other? How many "Americans" killed in Mexico were in some way involved in the drug trade? Does anyone know? How many "innocent citizen" American tourists have actually been killed in Mexico? Is there any kind of statistic or ratio? Anywhere?
I don't think there are answers. I just think things have lost perspective and our out of proportion. And again, in all the years I have been going to Mexico I hear the same things from almost every American I know when I tell them I am going to Mexico - "aren't you afraid?". OF WHAT? I don't have an answer. But based only I what I know from my experience in the US there are an awful lot of people who seem to be afraid of an awful lot of things. Perhaps with good reason. I really don't know. I grew up in an age when we did not lock our doors or arm ourselves. So maybe it is just my upbringing and mindset that keeps me from understanding any of this. Or maybe I just made up my mind a long time ago that I will not give in to this. I guess I am just an "innocent citizen" who has somehow miraculously managed to stay alive for over 67 years including travels in Mexico on and off for over 40 years.
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