Trap
Alberta
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moisheh wrote:WE are a Monaco owner. I was at Lazydays this week and looked at a few HR's. 2012 models. I was impressed by the new ergonomic dash. The great layout and other improvements. One Endeavour had a residential fridge and 4 of the biggest 6 volts I have ever seen. More like forklift batteries. The battery cables were the heaviest in any MH that I have looked at. HUGE. Same for the industrial connectors. The new MCD front shade is great. I liked the fit and finish. The one thing that bothers me is the Navistar engine. I have never liked them and for me this would be a deal breaker. I remember the poor guys who bought units with the Mercedes engines. You cannot give those away.
Moisheh
Moisheh, while I'm a little skeptical of the new MaxxForce 10, after driving one yesterday I do have to say the motor is very impressive and from what I can tell does not give up anything to the Cummins ISL in the power department. To get the rest of the coach I'm thinking we'll get the MaxxForce 10
Trap
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moisheh
North America
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It's not the power that bothers me. School buses equipped with the Maxforce engines have been problematic. They are extremely noisy. Resale value of a MH with Navistar power will always be poor. I also wonder about service. Cummins is not new to working on MH's. They have techs who know that access is sometimes from the inside and wear clean clothes and booties. Navistar may not provide this level of service. If you do not do your own servicing Cummins can service your gennie and engine. Navistar will not have gennie parts or Onan techs. When a Cummins dealer orders parts there are no freight charges. I don't know how Navistar will handle the freight but I know that Workhorse charges freight. Does Navistar have a customer support hotline? Navistar's reputation among truckers is not what I would call stellar. Not needing DEF is a big plus as long as Mavistar can keep their EPA certificationb. According to all the other engine mfrs. this may be a problem. EGR will make for lots of engine heat. Here is some info that I gleaned from another forum. Most are comparing the Maxforce 10 to an ISC so that would make it a downgrade from the ISL. I certainly undertsand your dilemna as the unit is just so gorgeous and the floorplans are great. One question: Does the Maxfoce have an engine brake or an exhaust brake? No engine brake would be a deal breaker for me.
"The ISB6.7L for 2010 and later will require the use of diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) which is a urea water solution that is required to meet the emissions requirements set by the EPA for MY 2010 and later engines. The Maxxforce engine does not use DEF systems but has a more complex system in that it uses twin turbochargers, a low pressure stage feeding a high pressure stage. Any issues with turbos could mean the replacement of two turbos not one as in the case of the Cummins engine. International chose not to use SCR (selective catalyst reduction) as a means to clean the exhaust. The SCR process uses a fine mist of DEF sprayed into the exhaust ahead of the catalyst to reduce the oxides of nitrogen. Maxxforce is trying to accomplish the same by forcing more air into the engine to reduce emissions. The forerunner to the Maxxforce engines that used the same technology was the Caterpillar ACERT engines with twin turbos. They had plenty of problems with those when they were issues. Even when there were no issues, the twin turbos and associated air plumbing make for more engine complexity and higher repair bills. "
Moisheh
* This post was
edited 02/06/12 06:56am by moisheh *
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Trap
Alberta
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Moisheh The MaxxForce 10 has a three stage engine brake that seemed to work well. As far as driving this unit goes it did seem to be on par enginewise with the DutchStar we drove awhile back.
No engine brake would be a deal breaker for me also.
Trap
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moisheh
North America
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I know you will love this unit. I guess I am still in wait and see mode as far as the engine. Fortunately we have an 08 Dynasty and I am not in the market for another unit. At least not today!!!I can only see one other possible drawback. One would have to place a lot of confidence in Navistar's staying power in the RV industry. Sales for all the mfrs. are horrible. especially DP's. Monaco has been slow to get everything going and they have zero experience in handling RV dealers and RV owners. (unless you count the workhorse brake fiasco). Of course in today's marketplace there could be other mfrs. who will not be able to survive!! Strange times.
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Trap
Alberta
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Moisheh, Your right about todays Marketplace. It's all a gamble as far as what can happen with any manufacture.
Sometimes it's just luck of the draw.
I had a 20007 Ford F-350 with the 6.0 Navistar diesel. A friend of mine went for the Chev Diesel cause of all the bad he heard about the 6.0l navistar.
My truck was never in the shop for anything more than routine service, while he ended up having to have his engine pulled out twice for leaks.
We're still waiting on the place to sell so I will do some more research as I can.
It's been enjoyable following along with you,.
Trap
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moisheh
North America
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Trap: One piece of free advice. I think that Monaco is fudging the list price of their units. I have seen or heard of 3 persons getting some very big discounts. I have also noticed that many of the Monacos have higher list prices than say 2 years ago. MUCH HIGHER. It is hard to compare as the units have changed but I think the old 25% is meaningless for a Monaco product. I also note you are from Alberta. You could check with a US dealer to keep your local one honest. Good Luck!
Moisheh
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DHart
Washington State
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Joined: 08/06/2007
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We were able to get a dealer to reduce price from $330,000 to $230,000 on an end of the year, still new, 2011 HR Endeavor 43 DFT. At $230,000 we feel we got a steal on this coach.
I would push for as much of a deal as possible on any new coach.
2011 HR Endeavor 43DFT with a 2012 Chevy Avalanche LTZ "toad".
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