kendall69 wrote: This is what I always love about the internet. People who don't know what they are talking about all of a sudden are experts.
Unless you got the gas Sprinter, the diesel sprinter require special, euro spec lubricants that are hard to find --- making you tied to the dealer for routine servicing.
SPECIAL EURO spec Lubricants, WHAT!!!!!!!, HARD TO FIND...WHAT????
I've has Diesel Sprinter since 2007 and buy Mobil ONE which is Mercedes Spec, NOT EUROPEAN.
True, diesels store better than gas, but on a gasser, that just means not filling the tank after the last trip.
STORE BETTER - that's understatement. I had a diesel start after 15 Years sitting with the same diesel in it. Never did that with gas.
As far as diesels, the sheer cost of a diesel to service and maintain is staggering for an average user, unfamiliar with Diesel Particulate Filters, Selective Catalytic Reduction, Diesel Oxydation catalysts, and the zillions of little gadgets that make it impossible to keep a Sprinter running once it is out of warranty without expensive trips to the Factory authorized dealer.
Before my head explodes on this one I need to take a breath. I've got 80K miles and Not one of your scare tactics have emerged. "Little gagets" Hmmm interetsing haven't even seen a "little gaget" YET.
Like I said 80K mile and have NEVER been to the dealer.
Why do you people that don't know what you're talking about spew this garbage.
There is no economic advantage to diesel that is not washed out by high diesel prices relative to gas, and exceptionally high maintenance costs.
Man you really have a problem don't you. Diesel and Gas have been running neck and neck by me. For the same vehicle I was getting 12MPG, with the diesel sprinter I'm getting 22MPG. SO the advantage is like buying fuel for $2.50 when gas was $5.00. Do I need to do the math for you. Ya I better since I see you are so confused with actual facts. 100,000 miles between 12mpg and 22 mpg at $5.00/gal is a savings of $1,893.94. Oh and my " high " maintenance costs, can you handle that facts. $21.00 fuel filter every 20K miles. $9.00 oil filter every 15K miles. 12 Quarts oil ( You know that special Euro stuff I but at Wal Mart called Mobil 1 ) $6.47 Quart.
In Heavy Duty / Commercial use, with a lot of miles, the scale do tip toward diesels, but for most RVs they just don't do the mileage to justify a diesel economically.
Or the hassle of finding someone to service it.
Oh... you are paying Mercedes prices for parts and labor to service this thing.
It is nearly as bad as the Rialta that was built on a VW chassis once.
Sorry, every mile you go tips in the favor of diesel, remember I did the math. Parts and Labor, I've never spent a dime on labor, my parts for fuel, oil etc are the same as everyone else pays for anything on the road.
Check the diesel forums and you will find plenty of people singing the Bluetechs about diesels, how hard they are to maintain, how many fixes and mods they need, and how much trouble it is.
In a van, the bigger issue is the noise from the engine that need to be real carefully attenuated, and even then, it is way above gas levels.
Actually the diesel is FAR, FAR, FAR, quieter that the equivalent FORD V-10,Chevy, Dodge. PLUS the heat over the dog house of a V-10, or gas engine is unbearable.
Unless you need the Heavy Duty towing part (and that doesn't come with a diesel van), why bother?
Note: Sprinters, gas or diesel, cannot tow much.
CANNOT tow much, WOW - since when does 5,000 pound become NOT MUCH?
You can tow dozens of toads under 5K. And really who buys a van to tow more than 5K anyway. This is a non issue.
I haven't seen this much nonsense knocking a diesel in several years. I specifically wanted a turbo diesel , for exactly some of the reasons this person knocked them. A conversion van is a heavy vehicle, engine oil is easy to find, Walmart has it. You can always find diesel fuel on the road, never seen a shortage of it like gasoline. When heading up a steep incline, turbo diesels excel in high altitudes and cannot "ping" like gas engines can under load.
Quote: When heading up a steep incline, turbo diesels excel in high altitudes and cannot "ping" like gas engines can under load.
I noticed this when I got my very first diesel in 2000. I was stunned how they perform going up grade.
Every Gas engine I've ever driven on a MH, whines and revs in the red all the way to the top of any hill. They are exhausting to operate with the heat and engine whine.
I had a four Class C's with V10's and the engine is brilliant, but the constant down shift and engine was was too much.
I overloaded my Sprinter by many thousand pound and she took the Rockies like they were mole hills. My wife didn't drive the van LOADED till I asked he to move it at the hotel. She got in it to move it and it wouldn't move like it normally did when she drove it EMPTY.
She quick called me and said she thought the transmission was gone. I told her, nope it's JUST THAT HEAVY. She couldn't believe we were that overloaded, because sitting as a passenger she never saw any sign of struggle going over the mountains with the heavy of a load.
Lastly if the Sprinter was so bad shy would FedEx buy thousands of them.....here's quote from one fleet owner.
"
I have 30 of these in my fleet and can count the transmissions replaced on less than one hand. Some of my trucks have over 300k miles on them. Most all have over 100k, I have only had to change one water pump and these engine just do not leak oil! See how a Cummins stands up to that. Starters very seldom go out and believe me my guys do a lot of starting, 150 starts a day. I have yet to change a power steering pump or alternator, they just do not go bad. The 2002 had some weak differential issues which they have now fixed. The automatic door locks are a weak point but usually caused by a gorilla slamming the door so hard it breaks wires off switches. They get fantastic fuel mileage, some of mine hit 30 mpg with 200k on them. Daimler had some injector problems with the early models. The engines internally are really bulletproof. The brakes are small but if you buy your parts from Johnson Industries and take it to an independent shop instead of a dealer it shouldnt cost you that much. Did I mention that this engine does not leak oil! Buy a 2005 or later, change your fuel filter every other oil change and you will be fine"."
kendall69
Whew, man, thank you for your counter post! I've been following diesel topics for a few months now because I was thinking about upgrading to one in the next couple of years. The original bash diesel comments had me second guessing myself. So thankful that you bumped me back on track with your personal experience. Now I can keep on researching and dreaming about purchasing one! Thank you again.
Kendall69
You took the bait of one of the Trolls that visit The Class B forum. If you have been reading the forums here the last few months you could have saved yourself some frustration, as well as the time you took to respond to him.
kendall69 wrote: I noticed this when I got my very first diesel in 2000. I was stunned how they perform going up grade.
Every Gas engine I've ever driven on a MH, whines and revs in the red all the way to the top of any hill. They are exhausting to operate with the heat and engine whine.
That aspect is pretty prevalent in Diesel Pickups sold in Australia. Diesel is becoming rapidly the engine of choice in virtually all Pickups(Not Car/Utes, they are more performance orientated). Ford sold 97% diesel in their last Asian Ranger model, so they have dropped any Petrol(gas) engine.
Somewhat off topic but check out this diesel pickup. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/09/first-drive-2012-ford-ranger.html
For the comment about using 15 year old diesel, you were very very lucky. I am speaking from 35 years of industrial experience. Not someting I would have done.
Quote: Kendall69
You took the bait of one of the Trolls that visit The Class B forum. If you have been reading the forums here the last few months you could have saved yourself some frustration, as well as the time you took to respond to him.
No, I was aware of the troll, BUT realize others aren't ....like the person who just thanked my counter below my post.
These are the people I'm shooting for, not the troll. The troll knows he's a troll, but the visitors/newbies don't.
I think it's important for all of us to tamp down bovine excrement when we see it. It helps people who bounce in on a Google search and bounce back out and not having a clear understanding, just the blather from trolls.
The WEB is great and lousy at the same time. You may read 50 posts on how great something is and two posts on how bad something is, and as humans we figure we're going to be the ones that get the two bad versions of that product.
Heck I'm going through this right now. I read the famous post on the guy with the LEMON E.R.A. and am scared to death to get the Winnebago B even - it's just one story.
The top three B's are 30K higher than the Winnebago which is what's attracting me right now, but reading one horror stories makes me think twice.
The OP asked, Which Class B should we purchase? Unfortunately the thread got pretty far away from that, also thanks to the same person, and others responding to him.
Offline
