Jarlaxle
New England
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Joined: 11/18/2006
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Wow, time to launch the hanging curveball: my friend's 1974 Dodge B300 Sportsman class C has a 440 and a TQ. It has NEVER vapor locked, even in 100+ degree heat. All the carb stuff is there, which, considering the NEWEST 440 is 35 years old, is far from guaranteed. It has a thick cork gasket between the carb and intake, and (what I suspect is usually missing) a large sheet metal carb heat shield. His previous MH (1977 Dodge with a 318-3) vapor-locked until we rerouted & wrapped the fuel lines, but the 74 never did.
I tore down a 440 from a 1973 class A motorhome...it had never been opened up (even had assembly line tags on the valve cover bolts), it had hardened valve seats. I don't recall if it had rotators, but I think it did.
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with 3 nutty cats
My beloved St. Bernard, Marm, lost him 1/2/12
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion
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bborc
Brighton MI USA
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Boy brings back memories. The 1980 440 I had in a class A vapor locked baddddddddd. ex manifolds glowed cherry red at night if you shut engine off for more than 10 minutes she was flooded
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moisheh
North America
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A B van is not a MH. Reading some of the very old archives ( 07) you had a similar difference of opinion with a number of poters on a similar subject re 440's. Are you sure that the 60's did not numb your memory! Our 440 vapour locked every summer. The exhaust manifolds got so hot it melted the valve cover gaskets and 2 of the plug wires on the passenger side. This was such a huge problem that some outfit came up with spark plug wires with a ceramic end. There was a fellow from California that did RV motor mods. For awhile he wrote the tech column in either Trailer Life or Motorhome life. I already had headers, electric fuel pump, rerouted the fuel lnes and replaced them with steel lines, changed the viscous fan to one from a 454( comes on sooner) as well as other minor mods. Still in 90 degree plus weather it would vapour lock. I used the old flathead trick and kept a jug of water handy. When it vapour locked I simply dumped the water on the fuel pump! The tech writer suggested that I change the exhaust and tailpipes to 3". He also told me to install a particular school bus muffler ( duals) Was actually quite easy. Voila no more vapour lock even on the Raton Pass in 95 degree heat! Others had the same problem. I also ended up changing my heads as the valves were recessed. Started using an additive to make up for the no lead and put 50,000 more miles on that beast with no problems. 413's in MH's NEVER had hardened valve seats. The 440 is and was a great motor but it lacked some upgrading. Perhaps if Chrysler had solved their financial problems they would have solved the problems. The M600 chassis was light years ahead of the Chev P30. That M series chassis went on to become the Roadmaster used by Monaco. In many respects Chrysler was a real innovator. First unit body, Torqueflite tranny, torsion bar suspension( that one was not such a great idea) and much more. The 318 was an awesome powerplant as was the slant 6.
Moisheh
Moisheh
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Mike Hohnstein
Germantown, Wi
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Joined: 01/04/2004
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Jarlaxle wrote:moisheh wrote:The best RV engine from Dodge was the 440-3! 413 parts are hard to find. Even the 440-3 takes a special stat and I dont think it is available. The original Carter carb is obsolete. Called Thermoquad Both the 440 and 413 overheated in RV applications. Vaporlocked! The 413 will not have hardened valve seats so you either have to modify the heads or find newer ones.
No, wrong!
The ThermoQuad is perfectly fine...used on everything from 318's to 440's. It works very well unless mistreated. They do not vapor lock. (In fact, one reason they were used is because of that!)
The 413 will have hardened valve seats (and usually rotators)...all HD truck and Chrysler Marine engines did, starting in the 60's.
Looks like we have a hardend Mopar zealot here, one in every crowd.
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Jarlaxle
New England
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moisheh wrote:A B van is not a MH.
Read the post. Respond to what i ACTUALLY POSTED and not what you want me to have posted. The "B van" MOST CERTAINLY IS a motorhome. It's about a 28' class C.
As for suggesting I took drugs...have you stopped beating your wife yet?
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moisheh
North America
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Jarlaxle: You certainly are a mopar fanatic. A little sense of humour would help. A Class C is not much more than a van.. The op was asking about a Class A.
Moisheh
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Jarlaxle
New England
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Yeah, that must be why I own a Cadillac, a Ford truck, and have owned not one but THREE GM B body wagons, along with a Panther car & a Fox body. But dont let FACTS get in the way, dude!
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rjstractor
Auburn, WA
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So, how does on tell the difference between a 413 and a 440? I once had a 22 foot Winnebago Indian that the seller stated had a 413 but everything I read on it (old brochures, etc) stated that the Indian had a 440. It was a stout little rig, with oddball 6 lug wheels and IIRC 17.5" tires. Not many 22' motorhomes out there with a 10K rated rear axle. I think I could have hauled a cubic yard of brick in the back and not been overloaded. It was good mechanically, too bad the house portion was a basket case.
1998 Gulfstream Ultra B/H Ford E450 V10
2005 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 w/ Maxidump insert
2006 Ford Escape Hybrid
1998 Saturn SL2 toad
2012 VW Jetta S
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Jarlaxle
New England
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Externally...you cant. Need to check block casting or serial #, or the VIN. I recall some 413's had "Chrysler Industrial" on the valve covers.
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timmac
Las Vegas
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Joined: 03/20/2006
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MasterBoondocker wrote:what if any UPgrades have you done?
Best upgrade would be to sell that old motorhome and upgrade to a new modern motorhome with a better motor. 
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