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Bit Bucket

Brookings, Oregon

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Joined: 04/29/2011

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Posted: 04/30/12 09:23am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joelc wrote:

Forgot about bleach. Excellent cleaner with water. DO NOT USE BLEACH AND AMMONIA.


This is what we have used for over 5 years.

Use it around the house too, so far has been a very good cleaner/sanitizer with no problems for us.

Would you mind sharing your concern?

coolmom42

Middle Tennessee

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Posted: 04/30/12 09:52am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The combination of bleach and ammonia forms a type of chemical called chloramines. It is a vapor, and inhaling it causes about the same effect as breathing chlorine---very very nasty.

Either bleach or ammonia alone are good cleaners, but DO NOT mix them.

I just use some dish detergent and warm water to clean the fridge. If any objectionable smells remain, I wipe down with bleach diluted about 1/10 with water.

Prop the door open when not in use to prevent mold growth.


2006 Toyota Sienna
Single empty-nester in Middle TN

joelc

Milford, PA

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Posted: 04/30/12 11:04am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bit Bucket wrote:

joelc wrote:

Forgot about bleach. Excellent cleaner with water. DO NOT USE BLEACH AND AMMONIA.


This is what we have used for over 5 years.

I took this off the internet, but basically it can form a poisonous gas and kill you.

Mixing bleach with ammonia is a bad plan because it releases toxic vapors, but not so much the chlorine gas that seems to be discussed all over the internet. The production of significant amounts of chlorine is unlikely. Now, the bleach does react (with just about anything) to form chlorine gas and acid (mainly hydrochloric acid), but the chlorine gas doesn't stick around. The mixture of bleach and ammonia primarily produces chloramine, with a possibility of some hydrazine.
Chemicals Involved
Note that each and every one of these chemicals is toxic, except for the water and salt.

NH3 = ammonia
HCl = hydrochloric acid
NaOCl = sodium hypochlorite (bleach)
Cl = chlorine
Cl2 = chlorine gas
NH2Cl = chloramine
N2H4 = hydrazine
NaCl = sodium chloride or salt
H2O = water

Likely Chemical Reactions from Mixing Bleach and Ammonia
The bleach decomposes to form hydrochloric acid, which reacts with ammonia to form toxic chloramine fumes:

First the hydrochloric acid is formed:

NaOCl ? NaOH + HOCl

HOCl ? HCl + O

And then the ammonia and chlorine gas react to form chloramine, which is released as a vapor:

NaOCl + 2HCl ? Cl2 + NaCl + H2O

2NH3 + Cl2 ? 2NH2Cl

If ammonia is present in excess (which it may or may not be, depending on your mixture), toxic and potentially explosive liquid hydrazine may be formed. While impure hydrazine tends not to explode, it's still toxic, plus it can boil and spray hot toxic liquid.

2NH3 + NaOCl ? N2H4 + NaCl + H2O
What to Do If You Mix Bleach and Ammonia - First Aid
If you do accidentally become to exposed to fumes from mixing bleach and ammonia, immediately remove yourself from the vicinity to fresh air and seek emergency medical attention. The vapors can attack your eyes and mucous membranes, but the biggest threat comes from inhaling the gases.

Get away from the site where the chemicals were mixed. You can't call for help if you are overwhelmed by the fumes.

Call 911 for emergency help. If you really don't think it's that bad, then at least call Poison Control for advice on handling the after-effects of exposure and cleaning up the chemicals. The number for Poison Control is:1-800-222-1222

If you find someone who you think has mixed bleach and ammonia, chances are he or she will be unconscious. If you can, remove the person to fresh air, preferably outdoors. Call 911 for emergency assistance. Do not hang up until instructed to do so.

Thoroughly ventilate the area before returning to dispose of the liquid. Seek specific instructions from Poison Control so that you don't hurt yourself. You're most likely to make this mistake in a bathroom or kitchen, so leave and seek assistance, return later to open a window, allow time for the fumes to dissipate, and then go back to clean up. Dilute the chemical mixture with plenty of water. Wear gloves, just as you would for either bleach or ammonia.

Use it around the house too, so far has been a very good cleaner/sanitizer with no problems for us.

Would you mind sharing your concern?


joelc

Milford, PA

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Posted: 04/30/12 11:10am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

As a post to my last entry. I doubt very much if the product you used by the brand name clorox has bleach and ammonia in the same bottle. "Clorox" is a brand name the same as Kleenex is for nose tissues. Don't mix up the chemical name of an item and the manufacture's name.

Bit Bucket

Brookings, Oregon

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Posted: 04/30/12 01:21pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joelc wrote:

Mixing bleach with ammonia is a bad plan because it releases toxic vapors...

Ah.... I see, thanks for the information.
I mistakenly thought you were saying not to use bleach OR ammonia, I should have read the "AND" more carefully.

joelc wrote:

As a post to my last entry. I doubt very much if the product you used by the brand name clorox has bleach and ammonia in the same bottle..

Looking at the ingredients section of the link I posted shows it sure doesn't have both ingredients!

joelc wrote:

"Clorox" is a brand name the same as Kleenex is for nose tissues. Don't mix up the chemical name of an item and the manufacture's name.


lol good one. Yes I know that Clorox isn't a chemical and bleach isn't a brand
Bit Bucket wrote:

Clorox bleach spray cleaner works well for us, kills nasty germs...

I should have said "Clorox Brand Bleach Spray Cleaner" but never anticipated any confusion!

Thanks and good information, I had forgotten about the toxic nature of mixing bleach and ammonia. We actually have never used ammonia for anything that I remember.

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