chuggs wrote: Maybe I'm a little off base... you tell me?
I was looking for a used 5th wheel. In anticipation of hopefully finding something we liked... I installed the rails, wiring harness, and brake controller. I held off on a hitch --- because many of the used 5th wheel listings seem to throw in the hitch too, in many cases. I was having a little problem getting my DW onboard with the whole idea...
I decided...maybe she should just LOOK at one. SO we took a drive down to our local RV dealer. The salesperson asked what type we were looking for...and I asked what he might have that's a "lightweight" 5th wheel...that I could pull comfortably with a 3/4 ton pickup. I told him that I had been looking at used campers...and had seen a few Wildcats that looked like a possibility. He told us about the Outback Superlight edition...and invited us to look it over.
I could tell by the look on her face... my DW was blown away with the spaciousness that todays 5th wheels w/ slideouts have. Her last "RV" experience was going cross-country as a youth with her family in a tiny little Nomad travel trailer. It seems the experience might have left a bad taste in her mouth. I needed to do my homework...but the saleman pointed to the price painted on one of the windows...
He said, "Well...that's the SHOW price...and the SHOW ended last week. BUT..... since it was a 2010 model...and the 2011's were due to come out soon.....I might, might be able to give you THAT price. Hmmmm....do you have a hitch???.... If you're REALLY interested in this unit...I might even be able to throw in a hitch...."
Very kind of him, I thought...but the camper was a bit too expensive for us to consider...so I left it at that. I needed to do more homework...but at least I could tell my wife was pretty stoked about the spaciousness of the 5th wheel.
So, I found a forum with people that had these campers and researched their posts...looking for reliability issues. I even joined in...and PM'd a couple of guys that had the exact model I was looking at. They had good things to say about their units. I just tripped across some posts about "wholesale" dealers... I took a look at one...and sure enough they had the same camper. So I clicked on the "see lowest price" dohicky...and got a mailbot reply with a price offer. IT was $10,000 less than the local RV dealer's "SHOW" price.
I'm sorry, but if the local RV dealer is that far away on price...and can keep a straight face... I have NO desire to do business with them. We're not talking an $80,000 msrp camper...we're talking about a $35,000 msrp camper... How on earth can they be $10,000 apart???
I wouldn't EVEN try to leverage a local dealer with another dealers price. It's important to ME, anyway, to devote my business to the dealer that gave me a good deal...upfront...no silly games. I don't want them to play games with me...and I think they deserve the same from me. I know plenty of people use the leverage a deal technique...but to me --- in the end you're punishing the dealer that was fair to you...and giving the business to the ones that wanted to take advantage of you --- before you started twisting their arm.
Sorry,,, against my principles.
I'm all for supporting your local dealers. I do...and can accept a reasonable price disadvantage by doing so. But at some point --- I draw the line.
Unfortunately RV buying requires bargaining. You were just window shopping.
In order to get your best price you need to roll up your sleeves and dicker. I factory ordered my rig and let the dealers give me there best price. None of them gave me their best price first. After a few back and fourths we got down to the real numbers.
Patience is the key, they needed my sale more than I needed their rig.
In the end I was able to purchase local for a decent price, I was willing to play the game, but I showed my cards up front and let them know I was willing to travel if necessary.
From the dealer's point of view they are trying to maximize their profit. Wholesalers take the volume approach hoping they can sell a lot of units at a small margin while most typical dealers sell less units but at higher margin.
I took the savings and made the drive on my last rig. This time I wised up a bit a patiently negotiated a far away deal close to home!
07'Duramax dually,12'Open Range 399BHS
Hawkshead TPMS,Hensley BD3,Killerbee exhaust brake
Blue Ox Bedsaver,air bags w/compressor
Arvika pin box bike rack,Bak Flip tonneau cover
5500 Onan LP,EMS-HW-50
14'Porta Bote w/8.0 Nissan
Vu Cube 2000,Splendide 2000S
Here is the concern about buying a long distance away.
1.) The warranty service will not be as good from a dealer that you didn't buy from. A dealer you bought from will be quite a bit more cooperative in dealing with the little stuff. The major stuff any dealer will need to get manufacturer's preapproval to fix anything anyway. The dealer we bought from was about 2 1/2 hours from us. We had a large quantity of warranty issues that had to be handled. We found that we got better service from the dealer we purchased from versus those closer to us. However, we had so many warranty issues just returning our unit to any dealer(closer by or 2 1/2 hours away) was a major hassle by itself.
* This post was
edited 05/05/12 03:06am by LostinAZ *
My suggestion remains the same. If product not fully backed by service everywhere you travel, then don't buy it. To answer an earlier question about reimbursement, dealerships get most of their income from the service department. The lions share comes from warranty and extended warranty reimbursement. You will find that the last thing a dealer wants, is a call from manufacturer! Believe me the dealer lives and dies based on making manufacturers happy. Weak manufactures, not so much. Strong quality minded, customer service oriented manufactures demand it.
Had this conversation with Keystone representative prior to buying my Montana, he assured me I would be treated well anywhere I went. Stopped at dealer 2000 miles from where I purchased my fifth wheel. The manager at that location dd not care where I bought trailer. Answered our concern, treated us with respect and even checked on us three days later by e-mail. Called the Keystone representative and he said " told you"! Pick a strong manufacturer with large network !
Pete_k wrote: We can drive 2 hours 20 minutes and pay more or drive 9 hours and save around $6700. I know the closer dealer would be nice for any warranty work. But then again for close to $7000. Difference I can make a vacation out of getting work done also.
Picked out what we want in the unit, Then faxed it to the dealers. Prices came back, closer dealer was $10,000. more. Told him thanks but no thanks we have a deal for this amount. He came down but just not enough. Now I will say this up front, if it were say $2000. Or less I can understand that. Price to get a unit delivered down south cost. Plus the other dealer does not have any deliver cost. There next to the plant.
Would rather buy local, but then again when your talking this kind of cash. Not sure they want us as a customer anyway.
We will be staying in the camper 3 nights there. One in there yard, 2 others in the campground next to the lot. This way we have time to go over the unit. Use everything on it, make sure everything is ready before we head back south. But then again if we buy from the local dealer we would also be doing the same thing. Never would I hook up and take off with a camper for the first time. For me stay and get the bugs worked out then. Head off into the sunset.
Pete
Are you feeling guilty or something?.
The local guy won't do you a bit of good for warranty work when you're 3K miles away on a trip!.
~
* This post was
edited 05/05/12 02:22am by ol Bombero-JC *
Artemus Gordon wrote: My suggestion remains the same. If product not fully backed by service everywhere you travel, then don't buy it. To answer an earlier question about reimbursement, dealerships get most of their income from the service department. The lions share comes from warranty and extended warranty reimbursement. You will find that the last thing a dealer wants, is a call from manufacturer! Believe me the dealer lives and dies based on making manufacturers happy. Weak manufactures, not so much. Strong quality minded, customer service oriented manufactures demand it.
Had this conversation with Keystone representative prior to buying my Montana, he assured me I would be treated well anywhere I went. Stopped at dealer 2000 miles from where I purchased my fifth wheel. The manager at that location dd not care where I bought trailer. Answered our concern, treated us with respect and even checked on us three days later by e-mail. Called the Keystone representative and he said " told you"! Pick a strong manufacturer with large network !
The reality is there is a non selling warranty issue. Dealers that didn't sell the rig are not obligated to do warranty service on it.
Most dealers don't have a problem working on a rig that is 1000 miles away from home, but some do take exception to working on a local rig whose owner by passed them to purchase elsewhere.
The dealer network is not that closely knit like the auto industry.
Pay rates and policies are deficient. This issue across all brands. The dealers are independent operations. The the manufactures do not control the dealers. Some even point this out in their literature.
Bottom line a dealers can and do refuse to do warranty service on rigs they did not sell. I agree the system should not work this way but it does. The manufacture often step in to resolve these issues,sometimes they recommend another dealer or independent service guy to do the work. Honestly I would not want any entity working on my rig that did not want to do it.
Artemus Gordon wrote: My suggestion remains the same. If product not fully backed by service everywhere you travel, then don't buy it. To answer an earlier question about reimbursement, dealerships get most of their income from the service department. The lions share comes from warranty and extended warranty reimbursement. You will find that the last thing a dealer wants, is a call from manufacturer! Believe me the dealer lives and dies based on making manufacturers happy. Weak manufactures, not so much. Strong quality minded, customer service oriented manufactures demand it.
Had this conversation with Keystone representative prior to buying my Montana, he assured me I would be treated well anywhere I went. Stopped at dealer 2000 miles from where I purchased my fifth wheel. The manager at that location dd not care where I bought trailer. Answered our concern, treated us with respect and even checked on us three days later by e-mail. Called the Keystone representative and he said " told you"! Pick a strong manufacturer with large network !
The reality is there is a non selling warranty issue. Dealers that didn't sell the rig are not obligated to do warranty service on it.
Most dealers don't have a problem working on a rig that is 1000 miles away from home, but some do take exception to working on a local rig whose owner by passed them to purchase elsewhere.
The dealer network is not that closely knit like the auto industry.
Pay rates and policies are deficient. This issue across all brands. The dealers are independent operations. The the manufactures do not control the dealers. Some even point this out in their literature.
Bottom line a dealers can and do refuse to do warranty service on rigs they did not sell. I agree the system should not work this way but it does. The manufacture often step in to resolve these issues,sometimes they recommend another dealer or independent service guy to do the work. Honestly I would not want any entity working on my rig that did not want to do it.
You missed the point entirely! I evidently lost my ability to explain (facts) any clearer! I tried... Lol
I just took delivery of my heartland cyclone. We found an. Issue today with the fuel pump gauge. We Could stay to get it fixed. I'm calling heartland in on Monday to find out where in nj we can get the issue fixed. I believe that heartland will help with this issue.
Congrats on your decision. I love the Cyclone!
2012 GMC 3500HD, Diesel, Crew Cab Standard Bed, SRW
2013 Cyclone 3010 (to be picked up)
Artemus Gordon wrote: My suggestion remains the same. If product not fully backed by service everywhere you travel, then don't buy it. To answer an earlier question about reimbursement, dealerships get most of their income from the service department. The lions share comes from warranty and extended warranty reimbursement. You will find that the last thing a dealer wants, is a call from manufacturer! Believe me the dealer lives and dies based on making manufacturers happy. Weak manufactures, not so much. Strong quality minded, customer service oriented manufactures demand it.
Had this conversation with Keystone representative prior to buying my Montana, he assured me I would be treated well anywhere I went. Stopped at dealer 2000 miles from where I purchased my fifth wheel. The manager at that location dd not care where I bought trailer. Answered our concern, treated us with respect and even checked on us three days later by e-mail. Called the Keystone representative and he said " told you"! Pick a strong manufacturer with large network !
The reality is there is a non selling warranty issue. Dealers that didn't sell the rig are not obligated to do warranty service on it.
Most dealers don't have a problem working on a rig that is 1000 miles away from home, but some do take exception to working on a local rig whose owner by passed them to purchase elsewhere.
The dealer network is not that closely knit like the auto industry.
Pay rates and policies are deficient. This issue across all brands. The dealers are independent operations. The the manufactures do not control the dealers. Some even point this out in their literature.
Bottom line a dealers can and do refuse to do warranty service on rigs they did not sell. I agree the system should not work this way but it does. The manufacture often step in to resolve these issues,sometimes they recommend another dealer or independent service guy to do the work. Honestly I would not want any entity working on my rig that did not want to do it.
You missed the point entirely! I evidently lost my ability to explain (facts) any clearer! I tried... Lol
I don't think I missed your point.The RV warranty system is flawed it does not matter what make you buy. They are all suffer the same problem. Keystone is no better or worst than any of the others when it comes to warranty. I don't doubt that Keystone would not step in and help resolve a specific situation by recommending another dealer or expediting parts however it should not be an issue. I don't have to contact GM to get my Chevy fixed under warranty regardless of where I take it.
The basic problem is a non selling dealer can take their preferred customers first and in some cases refuse to do warranty work on your rig if you did not buy it there. If you choose to buy out of state you should not be intimidated by this issue but beware this issue exist.
I have encountered this warranty refusal with my last RV.
Unfortunately the RV industry as a whole is somewhat unscrupulous and allows this issue to persist.
The route of the problem is how the dealers are reimbursed for warranty claims. Many dealers are willing to suffer the loss/headache if they sold the unit but if you chose to drive by them to purchase elsewhere they are reluctant to do warranty work on your rig. Your purchase savings becomes their warranty loss because they are not fully reimbursed for warranty work.
The way to alleviate this issue is for manufacturers to implement a better warranty payment system, One that dealers feel will fully pay them for dealing with warranty work.
The whole situation is so ridiculous I wish I where making it up, but warranty refusal is a real issue that occurs regularly.
We paid extra to buy from dealer near home. What a mistake, took it in for warranty work and they fixed nothing. My husband ended up fixing all the little things that were wrong. We bought previous trailer from out of state and had no dealer to rely on and never had a thing go wrong. For that kind of money would drive and get one out of state.
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