17oaks wrote: 6v Vs 12v: if one battery goes then you are down 6v and up a creek with no paddle.
While I understand your theory, I've never had an issue with 6v batteries in the 10+ years I've used them.
You have to understand my thinking process. I was a IT architect and design and built global info system that were critical in nature.
No plan ever got out the office an approved by myself with out an attached PoF (point of failure ) schematic. Every PoF is identified, analyzed, weighted and then we have to develop a mitigation and fail-over schema.
The problem with running 2 6 v is if one fails at all, you lose your 12 v support. If that is a critical need then at that point in time its jacks up and head to town.
Mitigate this by running 4 6v as you have done, now 6v is perfectly acceptable. Of course I chose dual 12v which is simply just another approach not necessarily THE approach. Personally I like your 4x battery deep solution.
Latter I will address my off the grid support architecture. LP genset + solar. I have not established my design parameters but I am thinking 72 hrs off grid + full AC/heat.
NOTE: I built and designed data centers and applications across the US and never had a data center go down or an app fail or not work.
On another note: I strongly recommend welding wire for these setups. Key is the flexibility of the wire itself vs auto grade. In addition welding wire will handle about 20% more amps than auto grade wire does the result you can use a smaller ga wire. It also hold solder much better and I STRONGLY recommend solder for you connections. Not just any solder by high strength electrical grade. I use solder bullets which are designed to solder a given size and connection together. Drop one in, heat it and insert cable.
Due to the requirements on an RV I cannot recommend sold copper/silver plate or lead flashed enough. The RV requirements can be much higher than that of an auto with big surges. You need surge capacity and connections that are not prone to coming loose.
You can make your own primary cables. Most welding shops will have the wire and the connections can be obtained from a major electrical house.
Don
17 Oaks Ranch, Texas
US Army (RET)
'11 F350 4x4, CC, LWB, DRW, Lariat
AF 1150, solar, satellite
Vietnam Combat Veteran
msiminoff wrote: Nice clean setup Don! I agree that the Diehard PM-1's are among the very best battery choices for a TC.
It's worth noting that the PM-1 is manufactured by EnerSys and is identical to the highly acclaimed Odyssey PC2150... but they're sold by Sears which means that a warranty replacement is always close at hand (not that you'd expect to ever need one).
The only downside (other than cost) is that these batteries require a specific charging scheme if you want to maximize capacity and battery longevity. I see you have a Xantrex temp probe on there... do you have a Prosine inverter/charger in your TC?
Cheers
-Mark
Yes I have the ProSine setup, not sure how big it is but will get it sorted out later...my goal is to insure my rig is stand-alone for some trips I want to take, but those are not near term. I have a Onan 2.5 setup and I am sure I will need to move to a more efficient AC unit. There are new ones out that are far more efficient than the Coleman I have and have GOT to be quieter! LOL
My friend that bought the 845 took the Coleman 19.5 out ind installed a Dometic high efficiency. The nose level dropped considerably,both inside and out.
* This post was
edited 07/12/12 09:04am by narcodog *
17oaks, your experience is interesting and yet not very relevant to RVs. At least, not fairly simple TCs. If you were going to wire a 40 ft coach with multiple battery systems and redundant computer systems and networks, I think it might be. I did see some RVs like that on TV on an extreme rv show.
In any case, welding wire isn't applicable because there is generally zero flex in RVs. If you thought your RV leaked, marine wire might make sense. Otherwise, you are just wasting money on wire upgrades.
There are actually very little surges on the 12V system compared to an auto if you think this through what level of current RV 12V accessories use. If you are talking about AC, you'd have something because autos generally don't use AC.
Relatively basic wiring concepts apply. Simplify the wiring, determine the current draw and run length before choosing wiring size, use bus bars, etc. Basically, solid boat wiring concepts will get you there. My guess is that there is much more info about wiring on boat sites since the wire is much more accessible compared to RVs.
'06 F350 Lariat Supercab SRW, 6.0 PSD 4x4 Long Bed, Intake Elbow, Walker Big Truck Muffler. '06 Host Rainer 950 Double Slide, Fastguns. Firestone Air Bags, Rancho 9000s, Vision 19.5s with Hankook DH-01 245s, Energy Suspension bump stops.
jimh425 wrote: 17oaks, your experience is interesting and yet not very relevant to RVs. At least, not fairly simple TCs. If you were going to wire a 40 ft coach with multiple battery systems and redundant computer systems and networks, I think it might be. I did see some RVs like that on TV on an extreme rv show.
In any case, welding wire isn't applicable because there is generally zero flex in RVs. If you thought your RV leaked, marine wire might make sense. Otherwise, you are just wasting money on wire upgrades.
There are actually very little surges on the 12V system compared to an auto if you think this through what level of current RV 12V accessories use. If you are talking about AC, you'd have something because autos generally don't use AC.
Relatively basic wiring concepts apply. Simplify the wiring, determine the current draw and run length before choosing wiring size, use bus bars, etc. Basically, solid boat wiring concepts will get you there. My guess is that there is much more info about wiring on boat sites since the wire is much more accessible compared to RVs.
I think you are reading things into this I never stated or implied.
Pics tell the story, note they all show primary batter cabling (2 ga) not exactly the stuff in the walls of any RV.
As for flexibility in spite of reading thru my posts twice I never stated RV's flex, the flex is in the twists and turns of the large ga cabling. Welding wire allows some very complex and tight turns vs auto grade. I build these for my clients for years and some of the setups are interesting with batteries in multiple locations and connections needing to be made in lots of different places and some real snaking to get there.
As for loading, maybe its only my Coleman that when it kicks in AC it draws a major load upon startup, granted its not trying to crank over a starter on my diesel, but I think you are trying to downplay the electrical req on a self-contained unit. It take my 2500 watt genset to keep it running and that is still not enough to run everything on electric at one time and have the AC kick on.
I am sorry you think my "experience is not relevant to TC's" and TC's are "fairly simple"...if you think LP/Electric/battery/110-12v/solar/on grid/off grid systems are not complex then you certainly much smarter than I am, but this engineer finds them quite complex.
I look forward to your contributions to the world of TC's, thank you in advance.
If you seriously want to know more about RV type power systems, study boating systems. As you can guess, there are far more boaters than RVers, and therefore, there is a much bigger pool of documented knowledge. For the most part, they are exactly the same appliances and components.
If you've had a bigger more complex rv like a better Class A or 5th wheel, you'll note that they have concepts that just don't exist in TCs. For instance, they frequently have multiple Air Conditioners, full size washers/dryers, full size refrigerators, and autoswitching capabilities for generator/shore power. In the case of Class As, they also integrate the auto capabilities with the house battery system with the ability to "jump" both.
So, like I said, TCs are simple...at least in comparison.
If you seriously want to know more about RV type power systems, study boating systems. As you can guess, there are far more boaters than RVers, and therefore, there is a much bigger pool of documented knowledge. For the most part, they are exactly the same appliances and components.
If you've had a bigger more complex rv like a better Class A or 5th wheel, you'll note that they have concepts that just don't exist in TCs. For instance, they frequently have multiple Air Conditioners, full size washers/dryers, full size refrigerators, and autoswitching capabilities for generator/shore power. In the case of Class As, they also integrate the auto capabilities with the house battery system with the ability to "jump" both.
So, like I said, TCs are simple...at least in comparison.
My class A has 3 AC's and a 50KW diesel genset, however no solar, while the KW are bigger fact is they are no more complicated than a TC, my TC is more complex with more systems.
17oaks wrote: My class A has 3 AC's and a 50KW diesel genset, however no solar, while the KW are bigger fact is they are no more complicated than a TC, my TC is more complex with more systems.
How do you figure the TC has more systems when you have more parts and integration on the class A? The only thing you've noted that your TC has exclusive to it is a solar panel that is basically a battery charger that is independent of every other system on the TC.
17oaks wrote: My class A has 3 AC's and a 50KW diesel genset, however no solar, while the KW are bigger fact is they are no more complicated than a TC, my TC is more complex with more systems.
How do you figure the TC has more systems when you have more parts and integration on the class A? The only thing you've noted that your TC has exclusive to it is a solar panel that is basically a battery charger that is independent of every other system on the TC.
3 AC's is only 1 system, don't confuse lots of parts with lots of systems.
My TC has to integrate LP/battery/solar, on/off grid and toss truck power into the mix. My class A did not have solar or pull power off a truck. Each one of those is a separate system that has to be integrated into the overall schema or risk potential problems from just burning it down to he ground to just frying some switches and relays.
The point of this thread was to show how I upgraded upon some low quality OEM primary battery cables and to show that you the reader could build a set of them just like I did. I provided costs, type of materials I used and why. In the years I owned a off road shop when a customer came in with electrical problems my first inspection was the primary batter cables. I would say over half the time new cables solved the issues. They are an often overlooked source of issues.
Sadly, there seems to be a few on this forum seem to want to think I am not making any contribution, but certainly they can in-spite of having not added a single thing to the thread except negativity. If that is all you wish to bring my suggestion is go find another thread to do it in...
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