I'm starting to research Trucks that are suitable for a TV.
I've read the the HUGE discussion on Diesel vs gas so lets not go there! :-)
This question is: Do I need Dual wheels or single wheels?
We currently have a TT that we tow with our GMC Yukon XL 90+K miles but really struggled when we just did a 4 week trip from San Diego to Jasper NP in Canada vi Utah etc and back via Washington and Oregon.. Given the advancing miles and the prospect of doing even longer and tougher trips with my young family then its time to replace the Yukon while I still have some re-sale left in her.
We may sell the TT sometime in the future and get a 5th wheel that is MUCH heavier.. who knows? So my spec for the truck needs to be based on possible future trailers or 5'ers rather than our existing one. I don't want to be limited by my TV when it comes to choosing a new RV.
So with that said.. should I choose dual or single?
Hi Steve. Your question is pretty general so hard to give specific advice but it all depends on what you are thinking about buying in the future. This advice is not true in all cases as it depends on some specifics but a good general rule of thumb for the modern trucks (couple years old)is:
3/4 ton or SRW 1 ton for up to around 12k GVWR FW. The SRW vehicles are generally limited by payload capacity on the rear axle and tire ratings. You could go gas or diesel with this combination based on your preference
If you are going over 12k GVWR (and definitely over 14k GVWR) trailers you need a dually to get the payload capacity. With dual wheels you generally become limited by the GCWR at that point. This is diesel land in a pickup I wouldn't even think about gas unless it was the ford v10 (dodge and chevy don't make a gas big enough in a pick up any more for this load)
There's no real advantage or disadvantage with dual wheels in non towing activities IMHO. I use a dually as a daily driver and put it anywhere you can put a car including parking garages.
I would like to dimension the trucks capabilities so that I will not be limited in the future.
Just to show my ignorance could you remind me what GCWR stands for again?
If I understand correctly then in layman's terms that a DRW gives you a much higher tongue weight capability than a SRW if we're talking about TT's. Not sure how that relates to 5'ers though??
I can let the cat out of the bag and say that I'm pretty keen on a 3500 Diesel..
A lot also depends upon the cab style, ie my 2000 C2500 reg cab has 3800 lbs of payload, mean while my 05 dually crew cab, has all of 300 more lbs at 4100 lbs. REality is, BOTH have about the same ability at the end of the day from a payload perspective, but slightly different, if one is choosing based on the drive train!
For me, I choose a tv that has a GRAWR of about 1/2 of the trailer wt for the minimum chassis size, then make sure I have the payload to carry the wt in the bed, be it hitch wt or bikes or whatever, add in people wt too.
I then choose a drive train to meet MY specs and needs, not the nganeers in detroit or where ever that want to spec a truck to THERE needs and wants! This takes practice and some math figuring.
At the end of the day, ALL trucks have a limit, The ONLY way you will always have too much truck from an rv standpoint, is to buy at least a class 7 tractor! Otherwise, like many 25 series trucks with diesels, 4x leathe crew cab versions. some have less payload than the strongest reg cab half ton ie 15 series trucks. Along with some SW 25;s like the one I have, have more to a bit less than dw crew cab trucks.
At the end of the day, you in reality need to figure out the how much payload you need along with body style, THEN and ONLY THEN, can you figure out what truck will or will not work for you. What works for you, may not work for me with 4 adult size teens and a given equal wt trailer. I will need more truck chassis payload than you.
If hauling a ball mount, you need minimum 1000 to 1500 lbs of free payload per 10K lbs of trailer. For a 5w, you will need 2000-2500 lbs of free payload per 10K lbs of trailer. You can get away with WAY less truck in a ball mount, than a 5w!
Marty
05 Chev CC D/A LS Dooley
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
00 Chev C2500, V5700, 4L80E, 4.10, base truck, no options!
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer
3 Single axle utility trailers
It seems like the single rear wheel F-350 has enough cargo capacity for a larger fifth wheel, and does not require the extra wide fenders that tend to get hit by things.
You can also check the new GMC 3500 SRW, they have a higher GVWR than the prior years. It might also meet your needs.
For a 14,000 pound fifth wheel, then you would guess about 20% hitch weight, or about 2800 pounds. Then the hitch weight is about 150 - 200 pounds. You can figure the weight of passengers, dog and firewood, then add that to the 3,000 pounds or so for the trailer.
The problem is until you have the heavier trailer, the truck can ride like a lumber wagon, until you load it up to 2,200 pounds or more. Most travel trailers are well under 1,400 pounds hitch weight, and you will tow yours fine, even with lightly tightened weight distribution hitch.
It seems like the single rear wheel F-350 has enough cargo capacity for a larger fifth wheel, and does not require the extra wide fenders that tend to get hit by things.
You can also check the new GMC 3500 SRW, they have a higher GVWR than the prior years. It might also meet your needs.
For a 14,000 pound fifth wheel, then you would guess about 20% hitch weight, or about 2800 pounds. Then the hitch weight is about 150 - 200 pounds. You can figure the weight of passengers, dog and firewood, then add that to the 3,000 pounds or so for the trailer.
The problem is until you have the heavier trailer, the truck can ride like a lumber wagon, until you load it up to 2,200 pounds or more. Most travel trailers are well under 1,400 pounds hitch weight, and you will tow yours fine, even with lightly tightened weight distribution hitch.
Fred.
^^^ I would say not good advice ^^^^
If you plan on going larger in the future, and don't replace your TV every two years, because it is out of style, or it is getting OLD, then go with the 3500 DRW. It is your choice, right now the Dmax/Allison is not a bad choice. Personally I would (for me) stick to a Cummins. Just wondering are you brand loyal, even so give the Cummins a try, you might be surprised!
Buying a diesel is an investment, yes they cost $8k to $10K more out the door new, but the resale value of a good used diesel retains a large percentage of those $$$$. Once you have towed with one you will likely never go back to gas.
Current;y fuel cost is only about 10 percent more than gas, and towing mileage for the same result is about 30 to 60 percent better. You still need to run about 120K miles to get pay back on the $$$, but the payback in towing power is immediate!
Russ & Paula
The Beagles Hedwig and Precious.
Portland, OR.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS
2001 Dodge 2500 4X4, 5.9 Cummins 5 speed, 3.55 gears, Pacbrake, Power Puck, 258K
It seems like the single rear wheel F-350 has enough cargo capacity for a larger fifth wheel, and does not require the extra wide fenders that tend to get hit by things.
You can also check the new GMC 3500 SRW, they have a higher GVWR than the prior years. It might also meet your needs.
For a 14,000 pound fifth wheel, then you would guess about 20% hitch weight, or about 2800 pounds. Then the hitch weight is about 150 - 200 pounds. You can figure the weight of passengers, dog and firewood, then add that to the 3,000 pounds or so for the trailer.
The problem is until you have the heavier trailer, the truck can ride like a lumber wagon, until you load it up to 2,200 pounds or more. Most travel trailers are well under 1,400 pounds hitch weight, and you will tow yours fine, even with lightly tightened weight distribution hitch.
Fred.
^^^ I would say not good advice ^^^^
If you plan on going larger in the future, and don't replace your TV every two years, because it is out of style, or it is getting OLD, then go with the 3500 DRW. It is your choice, right now the Dmax/Allison is not a bad choice. Personally I would (for me) stick to a Cummins. Just wondering are you brand loyal, even so give the Cummins a try, you might be surprised!
Buying a diesel is an investment, yes they cost $8k to $10K more out the door new, but the resale value of a good used diesel retains a large percentage of those $$$$. Once you have towed with one you will likely never go back to gas.
Current;y fuel cost is only about 10 percent more than gas, and towing mileage for the same result is about 30 to 60 percent better. You still need to run about 120K miles to get pay back on the $$$, but the payback in towing power is immediate!
"I would say not good advice "
I'm curious... What do you base that statement on? It didn't get addressed in your post.
I can only offer my personal experience. When we decided to go full time, we couldn't afford a new truck and trailer, so I went with the biggest diesel Dodge offered. I didn't want to find out in the future I didn't have a big enough truck. Went with DRW for the max payload and stability should we go with a 5th wheel along with the 4:10 rear end.
We decided not to go to a 5th wheel. We have no regrets but haven't needed the 4:10 rear. Our truck does not ride bad, but we also have weight in the bed. We are currently perfectly matched with our TT. No regrets with the truck we decided on.
Susan I
2008 McKenzie Starwood 32 FKD TT
Hensley & Prodigy Brake Controller
03 Dodge 3500 Quad HO Diesel DRW 4:10
Fulltiming, On the road somewhere.
Since you said you don't want to get into the gas vs diesel (yawn!!) discussion, I'll just offer my personal feelings about capability and my experiences.
We had in the distant past a smaller 5th wheel, pulled first by an F250. That did just OK. I then upsized to an F350, same engine and that one was very nice - also a SRW. Fast forward a bunch of years - and several TTs - we went again to a 5th wheel - pretty good size (Titanium) 34' and about 11-12000 pounds depending on how it's loaded. We pull with a SRW F350 (and a gas V10). As far as ride and stability - very nice. As far as tow speed - that's limited by me and what I think is safe but have seen interstates at 70+ though usually drive 58-62. Now, you have to add in maintainability. If that TV will be used on a daily basis as a second car (or even a 1st), a dually can get expensive and/or interesting - fuel mileage, general wear and tear, 6 tires vs 4, those big fenders which limit where you can park or even drive the truck. Heck, even our short bed F350 will take planning in a busy parking lot and often ends up in outlying areas, just imagine a long bed dually. Then that bed size - get a long bed, regardless, extended or crew cab - you will never regret that choice and the only regret I have with ours though with a Titanium's nose, not really any problem.
Pull the various load and tow weight ratings off the internet - all of various truck offerings have them posted somewhere and buy your TV accordingly
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