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 > Your search for posts made by 'Idle-Up' found 17 matches.

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RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

Thanks for the replies - Regretfully instead of this thread being friendly and educational so we can all learn from each other to further enjoy our RV’s, a few users have instead chosen two attack it and my credentials. For those who think I just dreamed up this topic, as a hobby, I spend 8+ hours a day designing lithium systems for their integration to RV’s. I designed the very first lithium system for RV’s in the late 90’s. Since then, I have provided consulting information to numerous RV manufactures, as well as industry leaders such as Lithionics Battery, Xantrex Corp, E-Gen and others. In Fact, I’m presently designing the first 100 volt lithium battery system for my Renegade. This system will provide up to a week of “off the grid time”with the roof A/C running. Other unique features include; the RV’s cab A/C compressor is converted to electric and powered by the coaches same lithium system allowing the dash air to run even with the engine off. This is big news for RV’s since the cabs AC unit outputs 19k btu. In fact, I just returned from a trip to Elkhart and Decatur visiting with technicians of 12 different RV manufactures for a “Show & Tell” of my Renegades latest lithium design where the entire coach and appliances are powered solely from lithium allowing the roof AC to run for two days or longer. While I’m presently documenting this newer system for an upcoming video, for those interested in a more conventional lithium system for their RV, I have included some links below of a few systems I designed. You might have to copy and paste the links! Stay Safe - Mike http://www.rotory.com/coach/images/renegademeet.jpg
Idle-Up 09/22/21 12:41pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

So Mike, take a look at this and ask yourself how this looks... Your posts; 9/17/21 - This has been confirmed by Cummins Onan. 9/19/21 - Thanks for your replies however I have spent hours with Cummins regarding these new Inverter based generators. 9/21/21 - Yesterday I finally managed to have a short conversation with my busy friend Bill Stubbs. So what's the truth here? If you didn't speak to Bill until 9/21, what happened on the other 2 times??? Next item; 9/18/21 - I have to inform you that your 2003 Newmar does not have an Inverter based generator. When your genny starts up goes right to high speed. 9/19/21 - I suggest you go out and start your generator you'll note it goes right to a high speed to maintain 60 hz. 9/20/21 – Bruce it looks like it's impossible to get a few members to believe they don't own an inverter generator. All they need to do is start their generator up and listen to it race without a load, 9/20/21 - The changes your hearing is not that of an inverter generator, what you’re hearing and mistaking for a faster speeds is actually the engine speeding up momentary from a drop in rpm from as load was applied. 9/21/21 - Bill mentioned that while all Onan diesel generators use an inverter module, the newer Onan’s now use a different inverter based processor protocol… Seeing as you told all these people they didn't know what they were talking about - and actually doubled down on it, and not very politely either, don't you think this would have been a good time to hand out a few apologies? It's ok to make a mistake - we all do that - the trouble is when you proclaim to be the expert and, in this case, simply had no idea what you were talking about, then totally disregarded the information from those who actually did. Bruce thanks for the reply - As I mentioned numerous times, I immediately noticed a contrast difference between the old and newer gen units with a revised Protocol within minutes when I first started the generator at North Trail. It's also important that you understand - I have spoken over a dozen Cummins Onan tech's since I bought my coach last year, most all confirmed there were operational differences in the newer gen sets at the same period the newly released 2500i and 2800i inverter based generators were released. In my last post I clearly stated that I just spoke to Mr. Stubbs yesterday evening for his accurate assessment on the newer generators where he confirmed there were major operational differences. Regretfully, since you don’t own one of these newer generators, so you’re speaking “off the cuff” without any real "User" experience. In retrospect, I had both my old coach (standard set) and new coach (new protocol) in my garage for 3 months parked side by side for comparison of the generators. Therefore, I speak from facts, I didn’t just wake up one morning and dream this thing up! Best Regards - Mike
Idle-Up 09/21/21 06:15pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

Thanks for all the replies - I recently sold my 2019 Newmar New Aire which had an 8 kw genny to purchase my newer 2020 Renegade Verona with an 8 kw Onan as well. Upon delivery, I immediately noticed a contrast difference in the generators quieter operation and lower idle speed which compelled me to contact Onan to investigate the difference. Yesterday I finally managed to have a short conversation with my busy friend Bill Stubbs, Bill is possibly one of the most knowledgeable guys on the planet with Cummins, Allison transmissions as well as Onan.generators. Bill is the one who uncovered the poor engine performance in RV’s which was caused by a protocol called “Fuel Sense” which was bogging down Cummins engines in RV’s. Fuel sense caused over-shifting in an effort to save fuel. Bill mentioned that while all Onan diesel generators use an inverter module, the newer Onan’s now use a different inverter based processor protocol, which allows the Onan to idle slower, as well as control lower operating speeds to make the somewhat noisy Kubota’s engines a bit quieter and more fuel efficient. He mentioned these new diesel protocol’s were inline with the new 2500i and 2800i inverted based smaller gas generators recently released. Glad you got to the bottom of it mike. Hopefully the new and improved version will also reduce the amount of invertir boards that owners are going thru. Cheers and stay safe on the road. Reisender thanks for the reply - Regarding the many board failures in Onan’s, the most common cause for this occurs when the generator is using to the same battery set as the main engine. When the owner can’t start the RV’s engine because of a depleted battery, he then starts the generator. The problem occurs as he attempts to start the engine “while the generator is running”, the extreme momentary high amperage load of the starter windings overloads the Onan’s 12/120 volt circuitry, causing the control module to fail. Regretfully, this is a short coming of the Onan system since it’s not uncommon for an owner to have a depleted chassis battery from all the processors running when the engine is off then start the generator to power and start the main engine. Regards - Mike
Idle-Up 09/21/21 09:40am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

Thanks for all the replies - I recently sold my 2019 Newmar New Aire which had an 8 kw genny to purchase my newer 2020 Renegade Verona with an 8 kw Onan as well. Upon delivery, I immediately noticed a contrast difference in the generators quieter operation and lower idle speed which compelled me to contact Onan to investigate the difference. Yesterday I finally managed to have a short conversation with my busy friend Bill Stubbs, Bill is possibly one of the most knowledgeable guys on the planet with Cummins, Allison transmissions as well as Onan.generators. Bill is the one who uncovered the poor engine performance in RV’s which was caused by a protocol called “Fuel Sense” which was bogging down Cummins engines in RV’s. Fuel sense caused over-shifting in an effort to save fuel. Bill mentioned that while all Onan diesel generators use an inverter module, the newer Onan’s now use a different inverter based processor protocol, which allows the Onan to idle slower, as well as control lower operating speeds to make the somewhat noisy Kubota’s engines a bit quieter and more fuel efficient. He mentioned these new diesel protocol’s were inline with the new 2500i and 2800i inverted based smaller gas generators recently released. I would additionally like to personally thank the moderators for re-opening the thread! http://www.rotory.com/coach/doorstop/onan1.png
Idle-Up 09/21/21 07:20am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Flex Solar Panel RV Upgrade - Mike Mas

Thanks for the reply - I noticed it was not working for me either - you can just copy and paste ether link below in your browser. Thanks Mike
Idle-Up 09/20/21 12:55pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

Thanks for all the replies Regretfully, Bruce it looks like it's impossible to get a few members to believe they don't own an inverter generator. All they need to do is start their generator up and listen to it race without a load, nothing like the new 6-8 kw diesel Kubota engines at idle most all the time. Stay Safe - Mike Mike. Our 2003 7.5 Onan quiet diesel was an inverter generator. Starts quiet. If you turn on a load it speeds up. Turn on another load it speeds up more etc. I think you may be confusing older Onan gas generators with diesel generators. Cheers. Thanks for the reply - Your 2003 is not an inverter diesel generator. The changes your hearing is not that of an inverter generator, what you’re hearing and mistaking for a faster speeds is actually the engine speeding up momentary from a drop in rpm from as load was applied. In addition, it only sounds like it’s running faster but it's just additional “mechanical” noise from the Kubota diesel engine working harder with the load. Once the load is gone, the engine gets quieter (appears to be turning slower) but only because it’s no longer working and relaxed with less diesel mechanical noise. The newer inverter diesel generators idle down so low you can barely hear them running. There is a no comparison to the older generators. believe me I've been doing this since 1978 and owned over 20 diesel Onan's since then. The first Inverter generator I owned was in my 2020 Renegade. As soon as I heard this difference in operation, I called Cummins / Onan and they confirmed it was a Inverter generator. I also mentioned this same Inverter generator in more detail in my In Depth article which I authored you can find it at: Renegade In-Depth Review Regards - Mike http://www.rotory.com/coach/doorstop/onan2.png
Idle-Up 09/20/21 12:22pm Class A Motorhomes
Flex Solar Panel RV Upgrade - Mike Mas

http://www.rotory.com/coach/images/panel1.jpg Hello RV.Net Users - I recently completed and documented my Flex Solar Panel installation on my RV and wanted to share the film for those who are interested in installing a solar system on their coach. While my panels are integrated with my lithium battery system, they will work equally well with AGM or Flooded batteries. The main advantage of a lithium battery system is their ability of storing a full days energy from the panels. I decided on using flex panels for my installation as they fit flush to the roof where they won’t catch leaves or hook branches which may damage the panels. In addition, they light, easy to clean the roof and very efficient for their size. Please click or copy and paste the link below for the film. Enjoy - Mike Mas
Idle-Up 09/20/21 10:26am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

Thanks for all the replies Regretfully, Bruce it looks like it's impossible to get a few members to believe they don't own an inverter generator. All they need to do is start their generator up and listen to it race without a load, nothing like the new 6-8 kw diesel Kubota engines at idle most all the time. Stay Safe - Mike
Idle-Up 09/20/21 07:09am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

Thanks for your replies however I have spent hours with Cummins regarding these new Inverter based generators I suggest your research it further. I suggest you go out and start your generator you'll note it goes right to a high speed to maintain 60 hz. No one said inverter generators were complicated, the alternator simply dumps the output into an onboard inverter which maintains 60 hz even at idle speeds. I have a number of articles on these generators, inverters, lithium batteries installations and much more on my non- sponsored personal website. I invite you to check them out to brush up on modern technology click or copy and paste the link below. Stay Safe - Mike
Idle-Up 09/19/21 07:27am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

Nothing new here. My 2003 Mountain Aire has a QD 7500 that uses the inverter technology. Thanks for the reply however this is new news as of 2021. Regretfully, I have to inform you that your 2003 Newmar does not have an Inverter based generator. When your genny starts up goes right to high speed. Regards - Mike
Idle-Up 09/18/21 01:43pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: RV Lithium Lite & Lithium Super Upgrade Systems - Mike Mas

phemens, The reading I've done (which may be incorrect) suggest low slow charging may be possible at -20 c (-4 f) Tonight it will be -33c here. Thanks for the reply - charging at freezing temperatures is incorrect as it will cause immediate un-repairable damage to the cells. If you plan on using your coach during winter, I suggest you only buy a lithium battery with an "Internal" heater. While heat- blankets will let you get by, they do not heat the cells equally which changes the capacity of the cells differently. Here's a little video I did on lithium heating: Stay Safe Mike https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smCms94wH88 https://youtu.be/smCms94wH88
Idle-Up 09/18/21 07:51am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

Hello All- For those of interest here’s a just released image info from Onan of the new 2500i and 2800i (inverter models) as well as a listing for the new 6 kw diesel Inverter model. PS I did re-size the images as requested! Stay Safe - Mike http://www.rotory.com/coach/doorstop/onan1.png http://www.rotory.com/coach/doorstop/onan2.png
Idle-Up 09/18/21 07:32am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

DrewE thanks for the reply - Every generator made has a speed control function as the literature you provided, if they didn't the generator could not maintain 60 Hz. The variable speed control your thinking about allows the engine to increase throttle to accommodate different loads or Variable Speed Generator. There is also a world of difference between a variable speed generator and an "Inverter Based Generator" they operate on totally different electronic protocols. Unlike the older generators the alternators output on the new units goes through a built in inverter like a Honda generator does for 60 hz regardless of speed. Inverter based generators such as my 8kw unit can idle and put out perfect 60hz power. In fact I charge my lithium batteries using my Xantrex 3012 with the generator at idle. You can't idle the older generators they have to run at a fixed rpm to maintain 60 hz. I've listened to and repaired hundreds of Onan generators since the 80's and none would sit at idle, as soon a they start up, they run at one set speed all the time. Regards - Mike
Idle-Up 09/17/21 04:51pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

Please limit the image width to less than 400. Otherwise folks have to scroll to read the text. Hello I sure will thanks!
Idle-Up 09/17/21 04:18pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

Thanks for the reply however I suggest you research it further. These new 6-8 kw diesel inverter generators were not released until a few years ago. This has been confirmed by Cummins Onan. In fact my 2019 Newmar did not have this feature, neither did my 2017 Nexus Super C 6 kw. all the past generators ran at a constant 1800 rpm to maintain 60 cycle output. Regards - Mike
Idle-Up 09/17/21 11:25am Class A Motorhomes
Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

http://www.rotory.com/coach/doorstop/coach.jpg Hey Guys - I thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss Onan’s newer style “Inverter Based Generators” which use a processor controlled variable speed protocol to vary the generators rpm to match immediate load demands. In any case, inverter based Onan generators are quieter, more fuel efficient and will last 2-3 times longer than a standard Onan thanks to the fact they spend most of their time operating 50% slower than past Onan generators. Fortunately my new Renegade Verona - Was equipped with a 8 kw “Inverter Based” gen-set. As soon as you start the generator, you'll note it's a departure from the older Onan generators which were required to operate at high rpm's even when there was no loads placed on the generator. Presently all the newer 6 kw & 8 kw Onan diesel generators - Are "Inverter Based Generators". Onan just released their first gas / propane inverter versions called 2500i - 2800i for B & B+ Vans. Last time I checked, the 10 /12 kw Onan’s were still using the older constant speed protocol. The primary difference of the older Onan generators is they were required to run at a set speed around 1800 rpm. This was mandatory for the generator to maintain a true 60 cycle wave form. Any deviation in speed, would cause the sine wave frequency to change. http://www.rotory.com/coach/doorstop/onan.jpg The term Inverter Based Generator - Can be a bit confusing to some RV owners. While this technology is new to Onan's RV units, inverter generators have been around for decades. In fact, my 15 year old Honda 1000 portable generator has this inverter technology. When you start a inverter generator it will run at a high idle speed for a few minutes to reach operating temperature. Once this is accomplished, the generator then slows back down to idle speed just as your main engine would waiting for a load. These newer inverter generators - Operate differently as they now dump the alternators output into a built in inverter module which maintains the generators output at a constant 60 Hz, regardless of rpm. As soon as a load is applied, the inverters processor samples the required amperage, then quickly increases engine speed to a level to maintain that load. It’s this process of allowing the engine run slower which conserves up to 40-50% fuel compared to the older generators which were required to run at nearly 50% throttle constantly. http://www.rotory.com/coach/doorstop/masbatt.jpg On a few Occasions - When I wanted to top off my Renegade’s lithium batteries set, I'll use the generator to power my Xantrex 3012 inverter to charge the batteries at 150 amps, or at 300 amps using my second onboard Xantrex Pro 3000 inverter charger. The beauty of this new generator is runs just a bit over idle speed to accommodate this charge cycle. In fact, you hardly know the generator is working. This same process with my older Onan generators was awful, since the generator would have to run at high speeds even though it had a very minimum load. This low speed charge cycle only consumes around .10 gal hr. verses half a gallon an hour on the older generator units. You'll also note that when running the roof AC unit, as the compressor cycles off, the generator lowers to idle again conserving fuel and reducing noise. In my discussions with a number of RV owners - I was surprised to find out that many owners did not realize their RV’s were equipped with this new technology generator. If you’re not sure you have an inverter generator- Just start the generator with no loads applied. If the generator stays at idle with no load, then you have the new inverter set. If it runs at a constant fast speed with no load, you have the older ten-set. While on the topic of Inverters - Most Renegade’s from 2020 now use an inverted based compressor motor for the refrigerator as well. This system requires half the power of past units. The refrigerator in my Renegade only draws 3 amps, where the same 18 cu ft refrigerator in my Newmar drew 6.5 amps to operate. The inverter controlled compressors have the ability to run at seven different speeds for efficiency drawing as little as only 1 amp to maintain temperature. Since my coach runs entirely - On it's own 16,080 watt hour Lithium battery which runs the A/C, my generator is seldom used. My coach is a little over a year old now, and I’ve only run the generator 3.1 hours for testing and exercise. Regretfully some type B and B+ & C manufactures are now removing the generator when they install a lithium package, this is not a good practice. I would not own an RV without a generator. I did want to mention in the article they also offer a a unique advantage for RV lithium battery charging, since you can charge your lithium batteries with the gen at idle, preventing the use the engine with all its DPF extended idling problems. In conclusion - I could not be more pleased with its quiet running and economical fuel operation. Congrats to the folk's at Onan for this major improvement in RV generators. Stay Safe Guys - Mike
Idle-Up 09/17/21 07:48am Class A Motorhomes
RV Lithium Lite & Lithium Super Upgrade Systems - Mike Mas

Hello Forum Users - I just completed my 2nd “Independent” In-Depth film on upgrading an RV to Lithium Power and wanted to share it with the forum. On my most recent film, I designed two different systems for RV’s titled; "Lithium Lite" and "Lithium Super". The “Lithium Lite” system is based on a 300 amp hour system with 3,800 watts of capacity which essentially replaces and doubles the power of most RV’s AGM batteries. This system is ideal for smaller RV’s such as B, B+ and Class C RV’s. The "Lithium Super” is a Powerhouse System which uses a 625 amp hour battery with 8,064 watts hour capacity which allows the entire coach to be run totally on lithium power, to even include the roof air conditioner for up to 8-10 hrs at a 50% cycle. This system also offers expansion to 1250 amp hours. My design includes moving the house batteries (now lithium) from their past “open air” compartment, where the batteries were exposed to extreme temperatures, road dust, water & salt spray, to the opposite side of the coach, to a larger sealed compartment which is temperature controlled. This compartment also houses the inverter, BMS, solar controller and battery isolator, to allow very short cable runs for near zero loss. This unique design captures “Free Heat” generated from the inverter and a neighboring AquaHot compartment to supplement the lithium batteries internal self-heating system to provider power saving and uninterrupted operation during freezing temperatures. I hope you enjoy the film - Mike Mas Please click on the link below for the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2RilLqYE5c&feature=youtu.be Seems if the link is not active - please copy and paste either links above or below - Thanks! https://youtu.be/k2RilLqYE5c http://www.rotory.com/coach/images/lithiumsuper.jpg width=640
Idle-Up 02/03/21 06:32pm Class A Motorhomes
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