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RE: Tire Advice
Looking over your new tire list and reviewing the Goodyear, here are some comments to consider.
On the Goodyear that had the blowout, I'm assuming you are referring to the Endurance trailer tire? If so, the ST22575R15 tires were in an E load range, with a Load index 117. Correct me if I have stated this wrong.
Here are some questions to ask yourself.
Something caused that tire to have a blowout; why? What is the DOT date code on the tires on the camper now? Assuming you bought all four simultaneously, they should be close. You are after the date of manufacture, not the date you installed them.
What tire pressure do you run those tires at?
Do you make a lot of hard 90 or 180 turns with the camper on a hard surface at your home/storage place every time you come and go to a campout?
Have you weighed the camper, axle by axle, and ideally, each wheel position?
What tire load range did Skyline place on the camper? With an 8,800 GVWR sounds like you already took a jump to E load range from what may have been a D load range by Skyline.
Comments on what may have happened.
There is a term called "interply shear" that happens on tandem axle trailers in turns. In a turn on a tandem or triple axle trailers, the tire tread and tire internals are getting stressed from the high friction between the road and the tire, when the tread does not slip on the road. The tire has to withstand this effect. Look this topic up on the web, it happens and is more aggravated by low air pressure, overloading, lots of hard turns, and tire age, to name a few.
Something caused your tire to blow out; think through what may have happened and why so you can correct it in the future. If you are low on pressure, that is a problem. The only way to lower the risk of interply shear that is practical, is more reserve load capacity per the loaded tire. This reserve capacity is above the stated rating on the tire. Some tire experts (I'm not one of them, but I had to deal with his) suggest 20% extra reserve tire capacity over the heaviest loaded wheel.
If you already jumped to E load range over the factory D load range, you could gain more reserve load capacity, but you will only get the increased reserve capacity from increased air pressure in the E load range tires. Suggest running them at the max cold side wall stated pressure on a trailer.
Was there a series of big potholes on a trip sometime? Potholes at 50 to 60 mph are bad news to a trailer tire, especially if the pressure is not at max. Damage internally can start that then takes a long time to rear its ugly head with a blowout.
There is a common trend on tandem or triple axle trailers when one tire blows out. The tires are at or close to or at full load capacity all the time. When the blowout happens, the other tires on that side go into overload. Now they have taken a hit of internal damage. It is common that those other tires can fail prematurely as time goes on. All of your fears about changing them now are a good concern. You are at increased risk if the damaged tires are not changed.
Having lived through the trailer damage that can occur when the tread flys off, the camper repair cost can outweigh the tire cost. Do you want the risk of simultaneously dealing with camper damage on top of new tire costs?
Not sure if you have a TPM (tire pressure monitor) on the camper; if not, consider adding one in the future.
I also noticed in your list of new tires; the Carlises were not at the 113 load index and not the 117 load index of the others. To give the Carlises a fighting chance, go with the 117 load index.
Try and figure out what caused your blowout and how to prevent it for the next time.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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06/03/23 07:17am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Komfort 274TS Receptacle Issues
You said "all" your receptacles are dead.
Is the display on the microwave working? The microwave is plugged into a separate receptacle, typically is "not" on a GFIC, and has its own circuit breaker.
If the microwave display is lit up, then this helps tell that the 120 VAC shore is getting into the camper. If not, you may have an issue inside the power converter box not allowing the 120 VAC shore power to get to the branch circuits after you confirm the GFIC's are working.
As was stated, the kitchen receptacle can have its own GFIC, and the bathroom can have its own GFIC. If they are tripped, all circuits downstream of the bath and kitchen can also be dead, except the microwave, which may be on its separate circuit. Check them.
As to your power converter board getting hot and changing colors, this issue should be checked out by an electrical person trained in doing this. The power converter can go bad, more so as they get older. Odds are, the 120 VAC receptacle issue is not part of your power converter issue. They are separate topics.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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06/02/23 09:56am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Mystery leak
I may be able to help, but we need more to give more specific help for your camper.
A few questions to start the discussion.
1. Make, year, and model of the camper so we can look up the floor plan to add context to your wording.
2. Does the camper have fiberglass or corrugated aluminum siding?
3. Are the wall studs, floor joists, and ceiling framing (rafters) made from wood or metal?
4. You stated this
You press down on it and its hollow underneath. Its right up against the wall in the front bedroom and probably comes in three or four inches.
Which wall shows the floor damage, the front wall, left side wall, right side wall? Left is the driver's side wall or non-door side wall.
5. Do you know if the walls, ceiling, and floor have fiberglass batt or solid foam block insulation?
6. Do you know what type of roof membrane you have?
7. Any chance of pictures of the inside damage and the outside of the camper showing the outer walls, floor to roof?
Pending the answers to the above, there are ways to investigate where the leak or, more likely, leaks are coming from and how far they have spread before tearing into the camper for repair. I have successfully used a moisture meter (many, many times) to scan the camper and see inside the walls, ceiling, floors, and roof. I'm willing to share how to do this, but we need more information to help better fit your situation.
Hope this helps,
John
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JBarca
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05/31/23 10:05pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: No gas to stove only
https://a.co/d/frDLD0F
That's the link for the one I ordered.
I was around 5 to 7k feet for most of my trip, and when we noticed it not working, we were back around 3k feet and are now at sea level at home.
I should have the new one in a few days to know if it works.
Thanks for reporting back on this. That appears to be the same Seven Universe R60 stove regulator that Atwood started using, just with the Suburban part number. Both Atwood/Dometic and Suburban have used that stove regulator for some time. I had "issues" with them regulating at all. They would pass through whatever the upstream line pressure was—no step-down feature. I bought 6 of them, 3 for clients campers and 3 for stock. I tried to report the issue to Dometietc, but they would not even listen; I was willing to send them new ones unopened to test; they wanted nothing to do with it. No one else was complaining, so they wrote me off. See here for pics of the R60 regulator I bought the 6 of them. http://forums.goodsamclub.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30325772/gotomsg/30327828.cfm#30327828
That same regulator has been reported and tested to give issues above 4,500 ft elevation. See this thread below where the poster had these issues, he tried to work with Dometic, and they stated the stove is not rated to work above 4,500 ft. ??? The poster did not give up and tracked the issue down to the main tank regulator to increase the set point to 11.5 " WC and get a reliable tank regulator that would not drop below the 11.5 " WC and not go above 14 WC. See here for that RV net post, this will drop you into where the problem starts to get sorted out, and he posted the fix, and now it all works at all the elevations he camps at.
http://forums.goodsamclub.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30325772/gotomsg/30330637.cfm#30330637
When you get your new regulator, before installing it, I suggest this. Test it on the end of your hose like you did your existing regulator. You may have more issues than just this stove regulator if it does not work. And even if it does work, hang onto that old regulator until you get back up above 4,500 ft to ensure the new one works correctly.
My issue here at 500 ft elevation was the R60 would not step the pressure down; in your case, it will not pass pressure. But you went through a large elevation change, and it appears you are on a rubber hose gas line camper setup. Is this correct?
Not sure how old your camper is; rubber LP gas line over time can leach oil into the hose, and that oil can mess with certain small orifices if it gets large enough in volume. The longer the hose, the worse the problem. I am unsure what chemical reaction occurs between a rubber hose and LP gas, but the oil formation is well documented. I did no not like seeing the RV industry starting to change from black iron main gas lines with soft copper pigtails to the appliances to now using all rubber hoses from the main tank regulator to the appliances. On the older campers, there was only about 3 to 4 feet of flex hose from the main tank regulator to the black iron 1/2" sch 40 main gas pipe. This older setup had limited rubber, and the oil issue did not show up so much. We will see how this plays out long-term on having that much rubber hose in a camper.
Curious about how your new regulator will work. Please report back.
John
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JBarca
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05/31/23 06:29pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: No gas to stove only
Pulled the hose off the regulator and gas flowed out of it. Disconnected the regulator from the stove and put it back on the hose and no gas came out. Looks like I found the culprit?
55 bucks on Amazon for this little guy.
GRH60. LpG 10" WC
Hi,
Can you tell us the brand name of the stove regulator you found on Amazon or a link to it? I searched under that part number, and it does not show up. I may not be searching for it correctly.
You reported the stove regulator was closed/blocked, not passing gas on your end of the hose test. This is not a common thing if I understood your test correctly. I have not "yet" seen this failed closed issue on a stove regulator other than when there were elevation issues above 5,000 feet. The camper travels lower in the 4,500 ft elevation and under, and the regulator starts working again. That issue I learned about. But not a purely stuck closed regulator that is normally open with no gas attached to it.
What elevation are you at now, and what was it when it worked at camp for you earlier? These elevation issues do not show up here on the east coast, but west coast folks have reported them.
May learn something new about your regulator failure and I am trying to understand it. The learning never stops.
Thanks
John
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JBarca
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05/30/23 05:41pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Travel trailer blueprint
Trying to figure out spacing for the "studs" my new trailer came w/o a ladder or to add a latch to keep the friction dor from blowing closed.
Try contacting Cruiser directly. Explain what you want to do. They may send you the stud plan for your VIN number upon request. They will also confirm if your roof is declared a full walk on roof or not. If it is not a walk on roof, many times you need to use a trap of sorts to protect the membrane and use 3/8” or thicker manageable pieces of plywood on top of the tarp to service the roof and spread your weight out. 2 ft x 4 ft pieces will span rafters at 16” ok and are manageable to get up and down. Use as many as pieces as needed for your task. Ask them what the rafter spacing is and confirm the maintenance roof access procedure.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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05/28/23 03:57pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: MGVWR and problems titling trailer
Here are the stated manufacturer weights - 2023 Forest River RV Wildwood 31KQBTS
Hitch 905
Cargo 1292
Dry Weight 8573
MGVWR on sticker 9905
Weight on DMV scale - 10,851
There is no way our beach chairs, mat, sewer stuff, hoses, and random household supplies put it at that weight.
We are thinking bad scale or Forest River stated weight is just wrong. Just have no idea how to fix it. The DMV guy is calling the state headquarters today but says there is nothing he can do. I'll call the dealer today.
Frustration is we are supposed to leave on 6/1 for two weeks so have little time to get this worked out and really don't know how that even gets done.
Thanks!
Hi,
Trying to help here, I looked up your camper and others in the same Wildwood group. Here:https://forestriverinc.com/rvs/wildwood
Your 31KQBTS is 36'7" lg, triple slide, and the book-listed dry cargo rating is 1,292#. Several other 36 to 37 ft long campers are also listed, but they all list more cargo capacity. And a few in the 11K GVWR range.
A question: Did you get the smooth-sided fiberglass siding option? That option on a camper that long can be 300 to 400# more weight.
I thought there was a semi-new law that each camper is supposed to have a weight sticker inside the camper stating that the camper weighs less cargo, the LP gas adds so many pounds, freshwater filling the tank adds, and what remaining cargo capacity is left, as that exact camper left the factory with all options. There should also be a cargo capacity sticker outside up front on the left where the tire size and pressures should be. Does the inside weight sticker cargo capacity align with the outside tire cargo sticker capacity?
Using the brochure weights may not be accurate as it does not include added options. But, the inside weight sticker should consist of all the options from when it left the factory.
I will say this, only having a dry 1,292# cargo capacity on a 36' 7" lg bunkhouse camper is not a lot. Filling 2, 30# LP tanks with gas and group 24 battery uses up a little over 100# before you even put any cargo in the camper.
I wonder if they optioned it up by the dealer order for their stock, and the options ate into your low cargo capacity?
Please post back how this comes out and your trip to the scales.
Hope this helps,
John
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JBarca
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05/25/23 10:57pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Atwood hot water heater
Can you post the model number of your water heater and the rev number?
Do you get a DSI fault on the inside panel when on gas?
A 2002 Atwood heater would have a separate T stat for the electric and the gas burner side. It may be that the gas side T stat is not working correctly. Opens up too soon.
Does the gas burner shut off or run constantly, just the water does not get hot as the electric side does?
How long did the gas burner run from an overnight cool down of the water heater? 20 minutes, 40 minutes, etc
Another thing, on a 2002 Atwood with both gas and electric, the electric side and the gas side both have their own ECO (emergency cut-off) switch. The ECO is supposed to open up in the 180 F range. The gas T stat is supposed to open at 140 F range, and if the gas ECO opens up lower than 140 F as it has a problem, then the water will not get to temp as it is overriding the gas T stat.
Need more info to go on.
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JBarca
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05/24/23 06:35pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: RM2652 on shore power, but LP igniter still snapping
Let's start with a few simple questions.
1. Is your LP gas turned off?
2. If your LP gas is on, have you bled the air out of the lines that the stove burners light?
3. When you hear the igniter snapping outside, does the fridge fire off on LP gas?
4. If the fridge does not light on the gas, and the gas is turned off or not bled out, do you get a fault light on the control panel inside at the top of the fridge?
If you are getting the fault light, the fridge is trying to run on gas and is not lighting correctly. You may not even have the gas turned on as you are plugged in, which can explain the gas fault.
If you are plugged into shore power, the fridge is turned on, you are in Auto mode, and you get a gas fault, this can point to the 120 VAC receptacle on the back area of the fridge outside behind the lower vent grill has no power going to it. The refrigerator will automatically switch to LP gas mode if the fridge's 120 VAC power cord does not sense 120 VAC power, even though the camper is plugged into shore power.
Check if the fridge receptacle is getting power. Plug a 120 VAC test light in or use a circuit tester. If there is no power, the fridge may be working correctly trying to light on gas; the issue is that the outside receptacle is dead. If so, back to why it has no power.
If the outside receptacle does have power, then report back, and we can go from there.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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05/24/23 06:15pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: AC tripping generator
Mdk,
You are welcome, and it sounds like you have everything up and going Great!
Now to your T-stat and what kind you have
Great stuff! That's exactly what I'm looking at lol. I had the 2 capacitor setup. I do not have a digital display like yours. Just a few switches that change from on, auto for fan control, temp control and a setting for cool, off and heat.
Opps...:S. OK, let's try this again.
The T-stat shown in this picture is the cream-colored rectangular-shaped bottom device that says, "Duo-Therm by Domitic". This vintage is the analog-style T stat that works with the analog control box. This control box requires a separate 12 VDC source run to the control box to operate the controls. The camper 12-volt DC system provides this. The 120 VAC is fed to that box, but it only powers the motors on the roof unit.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4673/27914060199_1aefc74769_o.jpg width=640
The digital display above the T-stat with the word (Acu-rite) is a 2, AAA battery-operated remote thermometer. I have the remote sensor inside the fridge to tell what temp the fridge is doing without opening the door. It is 34.7 F inside the refrigerator. The 70.4 F is the ambient temp in the room. This display has nothing to do with the AC unit or the furnace. LOL.... sorry about that; it just came along in the pic.
I hunted down a pic of the vintage before the analog control T-stat. This is called the "Bi-metal" system. This pic shows the T-stat that works with the Bi-metal control box. This bi-metal control box only had 120 VAC come to the control box up in the ceiling. An onboard transformer created the control voltage to work with the T-stat and power the control board to turn the relays on and off to control the roof unit. This system has no short cycle protection; you are supposed to wait and not fiddle with the on/off buttons or the temp slider. In automatic, the system takes care of itself. The two vintages of the system cannot interchange T stat or control boxes. They are specific to the technology of the time.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52915798319_affc15d134_o.jpg width=640
OK, now curious as I am "into" the Sunline brand of camper, what T stat is in your 2003 model year camper? And you know what month and year it was manufactured? This info is in the binder manual or the VIN tag on the front left outside of the camper if you can still read the tag. The model years rolled mid-year, sort of like the car industry.
Have a good campout,
John
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JBarca
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05/22/23 07:08am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: AC tripping generator
Hi Mdk4020,
I'll respond here in your generator post, so it ties together better.
Here are a few things to help explain the older Brisk Air controls that apply to your 2002 AC system. There are three main parts to the AC system in controls.
1. The roof unit. This is what is in the roof itself. The roof unit has fan and compressor motors, motor capacitors, and a wiring harness with a 6-wire white plastic plug into a control box inside the camper. That is the extent of the controls on the roof. There are no contactors or other control devices up on the roof to start or stop the motors. Motor control comes from the control box.
Look like this. The silver junction box houses the capacitors.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4652/39658010982_38d4a6d432_o.jpg width=640
Inside the capacitor junction box. NOTE: pending the age and vintage of the roof unit, you may or may not have 2 capacitors in this box.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4670/39658003462_33959829e6_o.jpg width=640
The wiring diagram from the side of the capacitor box
https://live.staticflickr.com/4704/39689071001_01b16eb906_o.jpg width=640
NOTE: The little black capacitor is called out at "COMP STARTER" on that wiring diag. This extra smaller capacitor is not always used, it helps the compressor get started by boosting the start voltage as that vintage compressor needs the extra help.
The other capacitor is a split capacitor, part of it for the fan, the other part for the compressor the Mfd ratings are different for each part. This split capacitor comes in a few shapes, round and sometimes white or silver or oval again pending the vintage. Here is the top of a round silver one.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4746/38980119034_872b6b976d_o.jpg width=640
2. The control box, is a silver metal box inside the camper up in the ceiling where the air intake grill is and the mesh filter. This box is where the fan and motor contactors (relays) are located on a PC board. The 6 wire white plug from the roof unit plugs into this box.
NOTE: There are a few versions of this control box. This picture is from the older analog T stat system.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4682/24497019347_dd25b1f3d6_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49021397288_579d264569_o.jpg width=640
At this point, we (nor you) know if you are on the analog or the bi-metal control box. Those are the 2 main types of control boxes; they are wired a little differently and have different control power sources.
The analog control uses 12 VDC from the camper DC system to power up the control board.
The bi-metal controls use 120 VAC to run a transformer on the control box board to create the control voltage to run the AC controls.
Your 2002 camper might be on either of those 2 control boxes. Ideally, you understand what you have for now and future troubleshooting.
3. The T stat. The T stat sends signals to the control box to run the roof unit or not. There are other features the T stat does, but again the analog T stat and the bi-metal T stat are different. We need to know which you have.
This pic is of the analog T stat.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4673/27914060199_1aefc74769_o.jpg width=640
Behind the cover of the T stat
https://live.staticflickr.com/4593/38633487664_ef245b4da9_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/4684/25472318158_bf3bfa143d_o.jpg width=640
The above is more to help you understand how the 3 main parts of the AC controls work. There is more going on with the T stat, the furnace interlocks, and possibly why your genny is having issues, but I need to know if you are on the analog control or the bi-metal.
Each main control part has different part numbers. The roof unit you posted the model number for is only the roof unit. The roof unit works with many different control systems.
The control box has its own part number, and so does the T stat.
I can tell which vintage you have by the looks of the T stat. Please post a pic of your T stat. . If it is like the T stat above in my pic, you are on the analog system. The bi-metal system looks very different. I do not have a pic handy of that T stat.
Now to your Micor air. I'm not sure if you sorted out your wiring issue yet. Here are a few big-picture things.
Here is your wiring diagram from the other post
https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/muahNFRxR0uK.jpg
When going with the Micor air, you have to abandon the small black capacitor called COMP STARTER on the wiring diagram.
The color codes can be confusing. These pics from my last Micro Air install may help. This is a newer Dometic Brisk air unit, but the roof unit wiring should align with yours.
Here is the blue compressor tie-in that is calling out. I used a black wire to extend the Micro air black wire
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52835465660_1352a032f7_b.jpg width=640
The Micro air (MA) cable casing is gray; it shows the brown (MA)-to-white (DOM)from the compressor (must be the white from the compressor) and black (my wire)-to-black (MA) connections and the red (MA) plugs into the capacitor red, and the white MA with the yellow connection hood also plugs into the capacitor.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52835244119_4c72327a9a_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52835465825_d613fd832f_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52835465845_ae83607808_o.jpg width=640
Here is a link to my Flickr photo site with more pic of the micro air install, which may help.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/camper-johnb/albums/72177720307672421
The Micro air needs the first 5 starts to work right to train (learn) the unit how to optimize the starting profile. There are instructions on how to do this on a genny. See page 26 in the Micro Air instructions. https://www.micro-air.com/support-documents/installation_resources/EasyStart_364_Installation_Guide_for_Dometic_Family_RV_ACs.pdf
Since you had a few messed up starts on the first 5 starts, I'm unsure how to reset the starts. And I'm unsure how the soft-start will react to those messed-up first starts. You may have to call them on Monday on how to reset the learning process to get the system optimized.
I hope this helps, and please let me know about your T stat; I can explain the rest of the AC controls for the future once I know which you have if you want.
Let us know how it goes.
John
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JBarca
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05/21/23 08:38am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: AC tripping generator
The thermostat SHOULD prevent short cycling.
Assuming Mdk4020 is still on his original older Dometic control board, and T stat from 2002/2003, he might still be on the older bi-metal controls T stats. The mechanical and bi-metal T-stats were not smart enough to create a timing function to prevent short cycling. The older analog T stat may also have had the issue.
Even a new non-ducted AC with mechanical controls has the short-cycle ability issue.
When the electronic T stats came to be, many of them had the compressor timer to prevent short cycling.
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JBarca
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05/20/23 06:27am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: No more training wheels
It appears Andersen sells a safety chain kit to go with their hitch.
https://andersenhitches.com/product/ultimate-connection-safety-chains-with-plate/
As to the law, this is a gray area, and not sure if it is federal or state-dependent. In the current statute here in Ohio, a gooseneck hitch requires chains unless you have a 5th-wheel hitch connection to a commercial tractor; it needs cables or chains. See here, https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4513.32
Curt does offer a gooseneck safety chain adapter for a Dodge puck system. Not sure if these would fit in the truck bed with the Andersen in place. They might. https://www.curtmfg.com/part/60617
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JBarca
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05/18/23 10:30pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: AC tripping generator
Shouldn't need a soft start with a 4500w generator. My best guess is the water heater is on electric and the battery is low so the charger is putting out max charge...that may be enough to push it over the edge.
The 12v battery is disconnected. I have it charging for when we go on our vacation in 2 weeks.
The hot water heater is off. I don't think mine has an electric option but I have no load amps of a few miliamps even if it did. I've always operated my hot water from a button on my control panel and it runs propane to heat it up but that switch is off
You need to reconnect your 12 volt. You need both to properly operate the ac unit. Power to the ac unit is provided by generator or shore power. 12 volt power is needed to tel the ac unit what to do. Might be part of the problem .
Galvanizd, This is a good thought.
This is something to rule out; yes, connect the battery and try again. We didn't get a confirmation if this Sunline was using a Centurion or an American Enterprises power converter. In 2003, Sunline stopped using the Centurion and went to the American 60 amp 12-volt power converter. I know that the American can run OK without a battery attached, but I'm not sure about the Centurion.
But, the battery will act as a capacitor on the 12 VDC side. Actually, it will run the AC unit control board all by itself. Now here is the but, the Dometic analog control board uses a 12-volt DC relay as a starter for both the fan and a separate one for the compressor. If, by chance, the 120 AC power flickers or goes low volts, the power converter may stumble and drop the 12 VDC control low enough that the control board flickers the relays while trying to start the compressor. The generator will not like that flicker of the AC power during this high surge spike. Having a battery in place will supply a constant 12 VDC regardless of the power converter dips. This is all theory, but it could happen. The best way to rule it out is to put the battery in and try it.
For sure, let us know how this battery test goes.
John
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JBarca
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05/18/23 09:52pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: 30 amp camper/50 amp plug and cord
JBarca, are you saying there are 2 A/C breakers (both turned on) but only one A/C unit?
Sounds like someone could get electrocuted.
I also think you meant a 30 to 50 amp adapter. Putting a jumper between to 2 hots on a 50 to 30 amp adapter would create a major issue.
There may be a play on words, yes, there is only one AC unit on the camper. Yes, there are 2 circuit breakers for 2 AC units as shown on the power panel tags, and yes both are flipped on.
And while they may have run the wire through the camper for a second AC to later add a 2nd AC, that does not mean the wire is connected to the breaker. Keystone made the camper, why they did not label the 20 amp breakers as living area AC, and the other, a future Bedroom AC , I have no idea.
To the 30 to 50 amp adapter, I was referring to a 30 amp male plug on one end and a 50 amp receptacle on the other end, which has the jumper between the 2 hot wires on the 50 amp receptacle end to the one 30 amp hot wire.
This is what Camco calls the 30amp to 50 amp, it is just they do list it as 30M to 50F with the male and female called out. https://www.camco.net/adapters-dogbones/power-grip-18-30am-50af-dogbone-adapter-125v-3750w-cetl-55183
Re-reading what I posted, while I did call out that the 50 amp end receptacle has the jumper, I may have mixed up the 50 to 30 generic wording. Thanks for pointing that out. I will correct the post to make it more clear. Not sure how you assumed the other way around, but I can see it now being miss read that way. I'll fix it. Thanks
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JBarca
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05/17/23 01:53pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: AC tripping generator
Thanks for the info. I have a feeling it's a combination of both issues. My generator might have a hard time handling hard spikes that max it out at the same time this compressor might just be very hungry for amps.
I think I will get a soft start because just about any AC I have or in the future would get, would be a nice addition to have just to make the components last longer if nothing else.
Do you recommend a soft start brand? I have been looking at then and don't know which ones would be good or not
If you make it to getting a soft start, the Micro Air brand is good from my dealings with them. This brand, https://www.microair.net/products/easystart-364-3-ton-single-phase-soft-starter-for-air-conditioners. Shop around as other retailers sell them, sometimes cheaper than buying direct.
I know there are other brands of soft starts out there, I cannot speak to the quality of them.
Also, ICON in Canada makes good AC shrouds that will fit your older Brisk Air AC unit. You stated it was brittle when you took it off. Amazon does sell its brand, sometimes cheaper than ICON directly. I have bought several of them when restoring older Sunlines. If you need help with the sizing, let me know. These folks, https://www.icondirect.com
John
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JBarca
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05/17/23 01:27pm |
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RE: AC tripping generator
55V on startup? Sounds like the gen can't handle the surge. Even 95V is low.
What is the AC voltage and amps on shore power?
It seems to be a common problem with all generators due to the need to ramp up however from the tests I've seen the honda only drops to 95v for a few seconds. Then again the test I saw was with harbor freight testing us8ng a kill a watt meter and that thing is pretty slow and inaccurate.
To run my tests I plugged in the kill a watt meter first then a line splitter and used my clamp over the line splitter to get amp readings while using the ports on the line splitter to test voltages. The kill a watt meter helped me see wattage readings real time within some sort of accuracy. The amps and volts I did off my meter because the kill a watt doesn't hold min/max but also doesn't react quick enough to get the voltage drops. It was saying voltage drop was closer to 105v but i know that's not accurate when running the min setting on my meter I got a 55v reading. Testing shows that it ramps up to 95v almost instantly maybe a second or two before it gets back to 120v.
I know 95v is normal because of honda inverter tests I've seen. Those 2200i's can actually start ACs but my 4500w generator can't and it's kind of disappointing lol.
It's also weird that only sometimes it maxes out the generator almost like a motor locked up. Other times it starts up just fine.
Preload doesn't seem to help because it trips sometimes when the AC fan is still running but once the compressor kicks in it trips. It's very random and I can tell when it happens while outside because the generator will Rev all the way up for a few seconds and eventually trip
I just saw this response as I was typing when it came in.
OK, there is something else that may be going on. Your statement in blue turned up a few thoughts. Since you are running on a genny, you are boondocking off-grid, right?
Unless you or someone changed it, your 2003 Sunline is on the older American Enterprises power converter or the Centurion. What size battery bank do you have, and what guidelines do you follow when to plug in and charge the batteries? Those older power converters did not have a boost mode. The point is, what else is going in the camper that eats into 120 VAC power?
The fridge is going to take 325 watts 120 VAC unless you force it to gas mode only. The water heater will pull 1,400 watts if the AC elements is on, and the power converter, well, it's a wild card pending on how drawn down your battery is. Those 3 power draws can all be going on in the background and you not know it unless you force a test with them all off. For a test, turn the power converter breaker off, (Sunline used to put the power converter on the general purpose circuit) the fridge, and the water heater off, (yes your 2003 can have an electric element heater, the power switch is on the back of the heater itself, not on the tank panel. ) Then connect the battery, and it will run the 12 VDC to run the AC unit controls. If the genny works consistently, then other loads in the camper may be randomly adding up against you.
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JBarca
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05/17/23 01:13pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: AC tripping generator
It is a ducted system. Do these AC units just happen to draw a ton of current when starting?
It's always been hit or miss since I got the generator. I would say it starts about 90% of the time unless I purposely short cycle it then I can pretty consistently trip it.
I did test both the motor starting Capacity and the main capacitor and they are within spec. I tested the coils as well to make sure there aren't any resistances in the coils and all seems good. The unit does work most or the time after all, and it is cold. It's just unreliable.
The older, and even the newer, RV AC units from Dometic and Coleman Mach do have a high spike of inrush current when the compressor starts. As I showed, 37 amps inrush on a Brisk Air 13.5 K BTU roof unit is common from what I have found. Again, assuming you are in the 120 volt range. My Fluke amp probe has a peak feature, not sure what meter you have to grab that peak spike, your reported numbers were lower. When mine is in constant scan mode I can't see that high spike the display is flashing so quickly.
Since you have the ducted system, you can try this to see if it helps your genny handle the spike better. On the AC T stat, select the fan to be "on" in place of "auto". This will turn the fan on all the time. Then turn the T stat to cool and set your temp. The compressor will cycle on and off with the fan running all the time. The intent of this test/trick is to lower the inrush combo of both the fan and the compressor at the same time.
If that helps make your genny run OK, then well, it helps tell a soft start can help compensate for your gennys inrush spike problem. It may be, your brand of genny is more sensitive to a high spike than others. The soft start on mine took a high 37 amps down to 18 amps. It is just that the soft start does cost a good bit, but still less than a new AC unit nowadays.
OR, if the fan is on all the time when running the AC helps solve it, you can run it that way when on genny power. The only issue is the fan noise all the time. We like the AC to shut down totally when the T stat setpoint is satisfied to not hear the fan noise. Some folks like the white noise of the fan, and some can't stand it. Sort of a personal preference.
There is a cleaning procedure of the inside and outside coil that can help lower the fan power which "might" help you. That said, it will only lower the fan an amp or two, but it will lower a small bit of the combo inrush current. If this interests you, let me know I can link you to it, I have a post on the Sunline Forum showing how to do this. If yours has not been cleaned, well ever, it is good to do the cleaning anyway.
The new AC unit motors are a little more efficient. When the time comes to get a new AC unit, the Coleman Mach brand has more offerings for lower power use. The new Dometic AC's do not offer as many choices. Both brands will require the air box and the T stat control to be changed.
Hope this helps,
John
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JBarca
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05/17/23 12:52pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: 30 amp camper/50 amp plug and cord
Just bought a Puma 25BHFQ. One A/C and a 30 amp camper in every way but the plug and cord are 50 amp. Must I always use an adapter or can I plug into 50 amp if available? Thanks. The camper is on a permanent site with a 30 amp plug. I'd like to eliminate the adapter by installing a 50 amp plug.
You didn't say what year the new to you camper was or if it was used and brand new. I'll add a few comments to attempt to help the cause.
I have seen new campers (2019 and newer, at least) wired and corded with a 50 amp shoreline cord and 4-prong plug with only one roof AC unit.
I "think, (not knowing for sure) this is a sales tactic to lower the overall selling cost. The power converter has a 50 amp 2 pole main pole breaker to split the camper loads into two 120 VAC 50 amp sections. This setup is a 50 amp camper, and they created power converter space and pre-wired the bedroom for a 2nd AC unit but did not install the 2nd AC unit. Thus, they can charge more for a 2nd AC unit as an adder but list the camper cheaper as standard. This camper has normal loads on both sides of the main 50 amp 2 pole breaker, not just the 2nd AC option.
A picture of the power converter breakers will likely solve all this mystery.
The adapter, the 30 amp male plug to a 50 amp receptacle, heads up, they sell two versions of this adapter, and pending your camper needs, it may or may not work for you.
Version 1: The adapter has a jumper molded into the 50 amp receptacle end to tie both hot legs together. This allows the 30 amp plug / 30 amp shore power outlet to power the entire camper with a split 50 amp 2 pole power converter breaker. You are still only limited to 30 amps of incoming power.
Version 2: The adapter "does not" have a jumper molded into the 50 amp receptacle end to tie both hot legs together. This adapter only powers up one leg of the 50 amp 2 pole power converter breaker. This means only half your camper will have power, which is the side that only got the power. The other leg is dead.
Yes, they make them like this as I bought one of the version 2's this spring. After figuring out the issue with a meter, I had to return that brand and buy a Camco one that I knew had the 2 hot wires jumper in it. Neither brand ever stated if there was a jumper on the 50 amp receptacle end. It is hit or miss, pending the brand.
Hope this helps,
John
PS Here is a pic of the camper wired for 50 amp but only one AC unit. They even included the 2nd AC unit breaker, it just does not have the 2nd AC. You can see, there is split power on both sides of the 50 amp main breaker that needs power from a 30 amp cord.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52905434633_c893e860ee_b.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52905227304_54241ef941_b.jpg width=640
EDIT: 5/17/23. added extra wording to describe the 30M to 50F adapter.
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JBarca
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05/17/23 10:20am |
Tech Issues
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RE: AC tripping generator
I should've specified. This is bare bones. A few miliamp draw probably from something like the gas detector or something. Fridge is off along with everything else. No lights. I have a high and low setting for the fan speed. When I got the 28 amps I was on low. When I got 30 amps I was on high. But that couldve been a coincidence. I did not record the amp draw Under normal conditions yet. I was more focused on the high draw when I did my tests.
This is a single unit. I believe it's a 13500 btu unit. Didn't lookup the model number though. It's a 2003 sunline 27ft. I assume the AC is original since when pulling the cover off it has a lot or cracks in it from being brittle (I may of caused more cracks pulling it off lol)
Hi,
I am very familiar with the Sunline campers. A 2003 Sunline, 27 ft would most likely have 13.5K btu AC on it unless someone upgraded it.
See this post where I did some amp testing on my Sunline. Before on the 13.5 K btu unit and then on the 15 K btu unit with the soft start.
http://forums.goodsamclub.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30390081/gotomsg/30391084.cfm#30391084
On my coil cleaned 13.5K btu unit, with the power converter running on a charged battery, no other 120 VAC on in the camper, but the AC fan was on before the compressor kicked on, and I got 37 amps in rush.
As I was typing this, something dawned on me, what model is your Sunline? Or, more importantly, do you have a ducted system, meaning multiple ceiling ducts, OR do you have no ducts and all the cold air comes out of the center area of the AC unit inside? (a non-ducted AC) The control systems are different for the ducted and non-ducted.
Hmm, have you ever run the AC on your genny successfully in the past?
I can see maybe 2 things giving you an issue if you are on the ducted AC system.
Your compressor starting capacitors may be weak on the older motor, (there should be 2 caps in your AC junction box up the roof if it is the original)
Your genny does not have much surge spike forgiveness. Again this comes back to, did that genny ever run the AC unit well or are you just trying it now for the first time?
Dirty coils on the AC will pull a little more current, but not that should stop your genny from working.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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05/16/23 10:50pm |
Travel Trailers
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