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 > Your search for posts made by 'KendallP' found 86 matches.

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RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

Yes, I know hes the right guy and I remember his photos, that's why I bought the B&D 40 amp charger, I also remember BFL's ugly graph on charging he posted but never quite understood it. I just had to pull that graph up from my files. The graph was actually quite well designed. Just not pretty. The point of it was... Given a 220 Ah bank of 2 - 12v hybrid batteries at 50 SOC... the slower the charge... the longer the Bulk charge, but the higher the SOC once the Acceptance / peak voltage stage was reached. The eventual outcome is exponential. The higher your bulk current, the lower the time benefit over the next lower charge rate increment. At 35A - 177 minutes from 50-90% SOC At 55A - 139 minutes from 50-90% SOC At 70A - 129 minutes from 50-90% SOC So one might roughly extrapolate that hammering the bank with another 15A (85A total)... might shave off another 5 minutes or so from the total time. Therefore there is little generator time benefit to anything beyond C/3. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVdiquTKC4k6CMqqcRowHV8ojZE7srwd9fPK3Gd5KAyCpuHHJ1moN13VVPJ4BHwd7bAZOKRN1AN5STgD1Sv1W6k2Vuo2kulBvJ37aQ5qY5fEE5rpm7ANC_13oAqLgux-eM8LTN-YlrqBZuR6jxoJ2NtOA=w639-h494-no?authuser=0 .
KendallP 04/27/22 11:50pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

Photo from 12 years ago for K's entertainment Bless you, B
KendallP 04/20/22 12:30pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

Yes, you have to do a second run after the first time it says FUL. Confirm real full with an hydrometer The 1093A has 2a setting but the 1093D has 4a as it's low and for the E. A near full batt accepts more like 4a going to the 15.7v E so 2 as low not enough Have you ever verified what % charge you have when it says ful with your hydrometer? My batteries are not on a slide and getting a bulb type hydrometer is impossible. I'm guessing these "smart chargers" only charge to 95% SOC or so. Any thoughts about not bringing batteries up to 100% charge does for battery life over time? Ha! Man did YOU come to the right guy. You won't find anyone on these boards with more documented experience with this than BFL13. He's basically answered everything already, but I'll break it down a hair... 1. If you do a single, modest cycle... say 75% SOC... and then a recharge with a Vector... and float it for quite a number of days... then you might get it back to 100% as could be hydrometer verified. But this will be the case with any voltage-controlled charger like your on-board converter or charger, only probably worse. 2. Then there's the whole stratification thing. Fewer bubbles with 12V hybrid batteries, so stratification is more prevalent. BFL used to remove his and tip them to combat stratification... until yours truly talked him into GCs 3. The short answer is to recharge them with the Vector and then poke the equalizing button. Unless it's really hot outside (Vectors are temp compensating,) you'll likely want to open the negative to isolate the bank from the coach... to protect the circuitry of your appliances But how about a general rule of thumb for someone like you who can't get at them with a hydrometer... For each 50-90 charge you performed camping... run at least one equalizing charge with your vector. That said... we haven't talked about the "Reconditioning" mode. I haven't employed that in many, many years, but I recall believing it made a difference. However... unfortunately the Vectors don't give a float charge at the same time as the pulsing. So this is where you reconnect the negative and let your on-board converter or charger float them. Either way... pulsing should have no ill effects like equalizations can. And you'll probably need to run several 24 hour sessions. But do note that pulsing does nothing for stratification. Or you may want one of those pulse conditioners that runs off your battery power. Those work fine so long as you're plugged into shore or solar... which you should be in storage. I doubt they draw much power when you're offshore, so I believe you can leave them connected 24/7. Here's a search on the subject. Confirms my belief that it seems to work. .
KendallP 04/20/22 12:29pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

Yes,you have to do a second run after the first time it says FUL. Confirm real full with an hydrometer The 1093A has 2a setting but the 1093D has 4a as it's low and for the E. A near full batt accepts more like 4a going to the 15.7v E so 2 as low not enough Huh. Did not know there was an "A" version of the 1093 My 25A (VEC1095ABD) B&D equalized at 4A. Just floated at 2. The pdf of the manual I have confirms this.
KendallP 04/19/22 09:43pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

I have the B&D 40/20/10/2 also and really like it it was the best $50 I spent when I got it on closeout when Walmart stopped selling them. I use it to charge and maintain my 2 6v GC batteries. Getting back to top charging I suspect the B&D does not fully charge the batteries when it says ful, because when I disconnect the B&D and float at 13.6V with my old Magnatech constant charger for a couple of days I can dry camp for several more days without generator usage. Has anyone else noticed this with the B&D or any other "smart charger"? IMO, virtually no auto chargers are equipped to completely charge lead/acid batteries in a single bound; with the exception of the Vector/B&D VECs. If the battery has been light to moderately cycled once only, after the "FUL" display, you still need to run a single equalization cycle to complete the charge. But like BFL said, there's no substitute for verification by a decent hydrometer... like one of my famous Australian units. .
KendallP 04/19/22 09:35pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

son has the one you posted, the one I have is even more basic. No start mode, 6V mode is 6A current limited but not voltage limited so on the 6V mode it will easily rise to at least 8V @ 6A if you leave it on long enough and the battery will take it. But unlike the one in the picture the 12V mode will limit voltage. Well technically the one in the picture will limit voltage also... if the switch is set to "Charge." But I never use it like that. Glad to hear your 6 Amper will take a battery to 8V. Sounds like you're good to go!
KendallP 04/18/22 05:22pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

I had one of the HF "beast" chargers, it's now down at our son's house, but he brings it up when I need it. Extech makes pretty decent meters. Not NIST traceable, but still accurate enough for our use. In fact Extech, Amprobe OEM meters to well known and well respected T&M companies. My next task is to check the 4 Trojan T-125's GC2's that are 10 years old on my other trailer. It will be interesting to see how close to replacement they may be. They often get drawn down to 30% SOC or so and have lots of cycle on them. OK. Sounds like you're saying my meter is up the task at hand here. Thanks! Yeah, it's amazing how long batteries can last that are continuously floated when not in use. Now if this is the HF charger you have, then you may want to thinking about trading your son for another one... https://static-data2.manualslib.com/product-images/7/651/65097/raw.jpg
KendallP 04/18/22 04:35pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

yes, I think we have the same charger. Mine is a B&D 40/20/10/2? A with equalize and desulfate. For GC batteries load test at rated AH testing each battery individually, that is 6V applying the load for 20 seconds. Load tester is a harbor freight "carbon pile" tester, good for up to about 500A load. NOTE: this test method is for GC batteries only. GC batteries are designed for long life, low load not high current draw so trying to do the typical X times CCA (which GC batteries don't have a rating for anyway) or X times AH is not useful. But be sure to measure voltage directly at the battery with a good DMM, NOT the meter on the load cell. (1) it isn't very accurate and (2) w/o a four terminal measurement it will read low because of IR drop in the cables. And I modified mine by cutting off the clamps and crimping on terminals that I can attach to the battery posts. However a quick check of harbor freight doesn't show the load tester anymore. all they show is one good for 100A. But if you do a search for "carbon pile load tester" they pop up on amazon, ebay and others. Several look like the harbor freight unit. A decade ago I paid $50 at harbor freight. Today similar on Amazon are around $80 And in addition to the vector charger I have a cheap harbor freight 6V/12V charger that being cheap has the advantage that the 6V position is not automatic, just keeps stuffing current in letting the voltage rise so it is easy to equalize by monitoring the voltage and stopping at around 7.5- 7.75V on a 6V battery. And it current limits to 6A. And it also doesn't show up on harbor freight website anymore. But I bet lots are available at garage sales. Just look for old, old, old battery charger w/o any of the fancy stuff. I treat the charger, the carbon pile load cell and el cheapo harbor freight charger like gold. they do not get loaned out. Yeah, yours is a VEC1093DBD like BFL's and mine. I've had my eye on one of those HF 500A load testers for years. And yeah, I see some on Amazon... along with better pricing on DC clamp amprobes that I've also been pining for for years. Thanks! I have 2 manual chargers that can equalize. One is 12V only at 10A. The other is "The Beast." A 12V / 6V Harbor Freight unit that had a short run before some bevy of lawyers put the kibash on 'em. MEX has one too. He tore his down and said they are built like tanks. He felt the components may have been military. One forum member tested his and came up with something like 18A in the 10A mode. You bypass the automatic mode by switching to "Start." Doesn't matter what current or voltage you have selected. NOTE: MEX doesn't consider anything under 16V (8V for 6V batteries) a proper equalization charge. The Beast will easily do that for at least 3 batteries at a time and probably more. Makes it convenient when I want to equalize the whole RV bank at a time. I just need remove the negative to the coach. Of course we know that our Vectors won't hit 16 unless it's really cold. And we also know our Vectors can certainly make progress in the 15s... and also more safely. In fact, for this thread, I used The Beast for the final session and made no further progress over the multi Vector sessions. I just could have done it faster using The Beast. Yeah, I wouldn't loan mine out either. I have an automatic Schumacher for that. I have this multimeter. Is there any reason to suspect it's not up to MEX's load testing challenge?
KendallP 04/18/22 02:07pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

Then I did a load test recomended by Mex, 20 seconds at 230A and record battery voltage. Some good and bad news from the load test. The "good" side is the Duracell only dropped to 5.75V while the Trojan's dropped to 5.48V. so it would appear that the Duracell has less internal resistance, and internal resistance is a big drawback to GC batteries. But that may also be the bad news. Since both weigh virtually the same and the same AH, what magic was done to reduce internal resistance??? first thing that comes to mind is maybe thinner plates but more of them. Drops resistance, but also is a drawback to long cycle life. The battery load cell was the same as used 12years ago with the Trojans as was the NIST traceable DMM. Time will tell Sounds like we all have the VEC1093DBD. BFL used to have a couple of lower amp Vectors back in the day... if he doesn't still have them. And my 25A version gave up the ghost several years back. Is that 230A at 6V or 12? And what load tester?
KendallP 04/18/22 12:01pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

OK, I ran the charger on "Recondition" for awhile. It climbed to 14.38v and plateaued. According to the graph on pg. 12 of the manual, it's supposed to be a higher voltage stage. I hope the standard absorption stage isn't any lower than that. I guess I'll have to test that now. Or perhaps it's designed to override the minimum battery voltage these units require to even begin a charge. I got the unit for its 25A capability. Apparently it also employs pulse desulfation during the charging process. They sell a Pro Version with a specific pulse desulfation button, so who knows. Definitely not seeing auto-equalizing, though. If anyone knows of a portable charger with auto-equalizing like our old Vectors, I'd love to hear about it. Perhaps I'll post a new thread in that regard.
KendallP 04/17/22 03:58pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

I just picked up a pair of Duracell GC2 230AH batteries, with a March date code. Brought them home, hooked them up to the Vector and it didn't take long (an hour or so) for the Vector to say "full". Like Ken, my Friese (sp) hygrometer was just at the "green" 1.2ish mark..... Ok I did one full equalization, went up a bit, but definitely low from what I got with Trojan's. So I've got them going through another equalization cycle. Equalization cycle current was 4.1A and Max voltage was 15.7. Still hoping I can get them to 1.275 temp compensated. BTW the Duracells were replacing a pair of Trojan T-125's that had been abused on a regular basis but finally gave up the gost 1 month shy if 12 years. 5 of the cells still had a good SG, but one cell was dead, dead, dead with SG near 1.0 Trojan's were on my list but at over double the cost of a duracell or Deka, and 3.5X a costco Interstate, they went out of the choice quickly. You are fortunate to have that Vector... as I am to have my Black & Decker version. Their discontinuance was a major loss. Haven't been able to find anything like 'em since. I have the Everstart version of this charger. No idea what the "Recondition" modes does, but reviews of it are favorable. I'm running it now on those GC15s to find out. Otherwise a decent manual charger will do it... with a little tighter monitoring. But note that both BFL and I got to baselines of 1.290 temp adjusted with the same battery model. So I wouldn't give up at 1.275 unless the progress stabilizes there.
KendallP 04/17/22 12:26pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

I was talking about comparing weight between brands of lithium batteries. Like more active material inside. time2roll may have been aware of that and just chose to place the focus where it was most pleasing. Not sure. But yeah... I caught what you were laying down. 'Twas a nice security blanket in regard to this fancy, relatively new tech... for one who has been so used to judging lead/acid batteries in that general fashion. Eyebrow raised. Now if only there were such a simple thumb rule to judge the expected longevity of a given BMS.
KendallP 03/14/22 12:54am Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

Just to clarify, please confirm the temps you gave, eg 60, are electrolyte temps after cooling? I know after an E the electrolyte temp is higher and so is the fluid level. After it cools you get a higher SG with the fluid lower (more dense so bobber floats higher so more into the green) Have to be careful the + change in SG is from being more acidic or from being colder. Confirmed I generally rest them overnight and read the next day. Definitely 6 hours, minimum. And temps are taken with the caps off and an infrared thermometer's outer edges touching the outer ring of the holes. So as close as one could physically get to the substance being measured. That said... I would think... so long as you're getting an accurate temp reading, it shouldn't matter how soon after the E you take the sample. Unless, of course, you let the sample sit in your vile and come to room temp if different than battery temp. This is a reason to rest the batteries in the garage so that there is little difference between battery and room temp. But we're getting a little nitpicky, I think. Just dip and read. If you don't lollygag, you should be fine. But I always ASSumed that the fizz still in the solution from a fresh E could cause the bobber to maybe float lower. That's the primary reason I let them rest before sampling.
KendallP 03/11/22 10:41am Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

Here's the chart. I have the excel file for it. It's quite involved. Someone put some serious time into it. Don't recall where I came across it, but it's credited to bb_94401, a forum member who hasn't posted in quite a few years. Pianotuna posted the excel file on another forum here. The chart places a 0.040 difference between 75 and 100%. It didn't take Trig to come up with my estimated SOC differential of approximately 15%. Assuming, of course... that the chart is accurate. One could run his own experiments by cross referencing resting voltages with SG readings. https://ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/E38_Battery_SOC_Table.jpg
KendallP 03/10/22 11:11pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

K, agree new batts need a recharge for any shelftime, but not sure your 15% is correct from all your Es As mentioned, my GC 15s only needed a couple of Es at the start. They act like they are still good to 460 at two years but not very many deep cycles. Without being too hard on East Penn, that I am very happy with my GC 15s, K has made the point you have to recharge your new batts when you get them home. I got the 15% from a chart based on how much increase in SG I was able to get. Wife rang the dinner bell. I'll try and post the chart... unless you have a better one.
KendallP 03/10/22 07:14pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

OK, I ran a couple more auto equalizations and they peaked at 1.295 to 1.300 at about 57F. So approximately 1.286 to 1.291 temp adjusted (80F.) I couldn't help myself. I hit them with The Beast for 3 hours. (Only took them to 16.2v. My first set of GC2s.) This brought them all to 1.300 at 60F with one of them 1.305. Therefore a temp adjusted average of about 1.291. So I'm going to call it about 15% worth of baked on sulfate on a battery with a same-month date code. I would say it is highly unlikely that the batteries left the factory fully charged. Therefore I believe I have corroborated MEX's information... at least for this "big" sample of 2 batteries. .
KendallP 03/10/22 06:08pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

Costco sells spring lettuce hydroponically grown complete with roots. Reintroduce to nutrient liquid with 12 hours of UV 390 nm. Trim weekly with scissors. Excellent in an RV. "Spring lettuce," eh? Is that what you kids are callin' it these days? I got the DW one of those Aero Gardens for her birthday in January... on sale for 80 bucks. I can't believe what they want retail for 'em now. Has a half dozen slots. Works great! Bright as Hell, though. We have it in the dry bar around the corner from the kitchen. We grow from seed. They sell pre-seeded pods or you can seed your own. Most sprout within 4 days. I bought her some coriander seeds because I like cilantro, but she hasn't planted any yet. That stuff is so cheap, though. Better to just keep it on the weekly grocery rotation. How many plants are you set up to grow? .
KendallP 03/08/22 11:27pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

Did not realize "salad" grew well with UV ;) My hometown, Santa Cruz buddies made that same discovery back in the mid ‘90s. As a landlord there, you definitely didn’t want to include electricity in the rent if you could help it
KendallP 03/08/22 12:31am Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

Mex has drifted 30 years past retirement and considers himself obsolete and disqualified from further commentary. But I sure am enjoying my new hobby as designer of UV LED hydroponics salad growing. You're right, old man. You've outlived your usefulness. We got this. I just got the DW one of those little countertop hydroponic garden units for her birthday. She's pretty stoked on it. She's got some dill, thyme and Thai basil going. Plus 3 lettuces. Next you should try quilting. Perhaps join the local bridge club. And I hear the Red Hat Society is a real hoot.
KendallP 03/07/22 10:06pm Tech Issues
RE: MEXICOWANDERER On Top Charging New Flooded Batteries

3 more auto Es and 1.300 at 57 in the one cell I've been probing since after the first round. I'll test all 6 tomorrow and go from there. .
KendallP 03/07/22 08:15pm Tech Issues
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