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 > Your search for posts made by 'KendallP' found 91 matches.

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Toyo M154 Tires on Freightliners - Your experience on snow

This thread is for owners or past owners of Freightliner DPs with these tires. I had another thread going about these tires which ran its course. It occurred to me there was a better question when donkeydew was good enough to answer it with his own experience with these tires. Said he's on his 3rd set. If you have a Freightliner DP with these tires... and you've driven on snow and/or ice... I'd like to know how they performed for you. Thanks in advance. A little background: Michelin has a proprietary tire size for certain Freightliner DPs. Online forums are replete with dissatisfaction with the OEMs in regard to early checking. (Note: Not baggin' on Michelin. Their Defender LTX M/S are my preferred tire for the wife's Highlander. Awesome tire!) The Toyo M154s are considered one of the best replacement options because they're a sturdy, smooth, quiet commercial truck tire that happens to be available in a size that is very close to the OEM. I was able to find, I believe only 5 others in that size from the likes of Yokohama, Goodyear, etc. All with similar looking tread. https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/tyt-548330_lb_xl.jpg height=640 width=480
KendallP 11/06/21 05:43pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

sure have the one that sticks out was getting caught on the ice field parkway in blizzard conditions all the way to lake Louise not fun but no problem with the tires they held the road much better than i would have thought they would Well that's really comforting. Thanks!
KendallP 11/06/21 05:24pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

i am on my 3rd set of toyo's. i have driven the motor home all over the western us and northern canada in all kinds of weather with out a problem.i would save the money on siping them. Most helpful post yet. Very reassuring. Thanks! You say "...in all kinds of weather..." Does that include snowing and sticking? Or just snowing? Have you driven that 40 foot DP on snow-covered roads and on ice with those Toyos? .
KendallP 11/03/21 11:25am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

So 3 comments and they are horrible tires? That's hardly a decent sampe size. There is a difference between saying they are "suitable" and saying they are "not recommended"...you are adding something that isn't there. 1. Nope. The "comments" are all over the RV forums. The reviews on Tire Rack were simply to point out the likelihood of very low aftermarket sales. Why do you suppose that is? 2. No I am not. I've provided the links. The Toyo website says they are "Recommended" for steers and "Suitable" for drives. I'm sure anyone else reading this thread will understand Toyo isn't just stating that for no reason. And once again... on their website... if you search "Drives"... the M154s will not show up. Here's the page again And sort of interesting... the Toyo.ca page is slightly different. This is the one I linked in the OP (at the time... I hadn't noticed it was the .ca version.) "Recommended" for steers and "Suitable" for trailer for long haul and drives for urban and regional. On this page you have to click the blue application button to see this.
KendallP 11/03/21 11:17am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

Responses in blue below... You were the one indicating it was MH owners. Quote: The Toyos are considered to be (by motorhome owners)... one of the best replacements. Yes. And? Lots of comments are just as likely a result of them being a commonly available model. If 1% of people complain, you will have far more complaints from a tire that sells 100,000/yr vs one that sells 20,000/yr. You yourself, indicated the Michelin was a popular tire for this application. When? They came with the rigs. And I said there were only 3 reviews on Tire Rack... with the first review in 2011... meaning they've likely been for sale on that site for at least 10 years. That doesn't ring as very popular to me. If Toyo says they are "suitable" as drive tires, they are suitable. "Suitable?" Yes. "Recommended?" No. If you think you know better than the manufacturer, go for it. As stated many times... I don't. And I'm not planning on siping the tires. Thanks for weighing in.
KendallP 11/02/21 09:47am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

I actually had used tires sipped at LS, they were about 50% tread and had poor wet traction. I had them sipped and far less tire spin on take off. Of course this is anecdotal, but you appear to have had some very noticeable benefit from the siping. Perhaps it wouldn't have helped when new, but it obviously did down the road, as it were. Thanks for weighing in.
KendallP 11/01/21 03:42pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

That you have voiced several times a dissatisfaction with the Michelin tires, just makes all this seem silly. Why would you even consider trying to duplicate a tire of which you think so poorly? Not the tread design, nor the ride, the grip or the noise. But the durability. I have voiced that several times in this thread, as well. One need only look as far as the OP to read, "...these particular Michelins have a very poor reputation for early sidewall cracking and such." Here again... the Toyos were not designed to target the motorhome market. They're website lists them as "Recommended" for steers and "Suitable" for drives... on commercial vehicles. They happen to come in a rare size that compares to the OEM tires and many owners have reported much satisfaction with them... including the prior owner of the subject rig. The Michelin website makes it clear that the XRV is targeted to the motorhome market. One could only assume that means they are meant to be "Recommended" as both steer and drive tires. Perhaps the siping has something to do with this? I don't know. Anyone reading through this thread is probably sick of seeing me repeat all this by now. And it doesn't matter. My decision not to sipe was all but made before I started the thread. I've made that clear, as well. I asked for opinions... because I felt this was a unique case... and I think I've got yours. Thanks for weighing in. .
KendallP 11/01/21 02:52pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

Since the siping on the Michelin tire picture is curved/angled in the top picture it certainly looks like it was molded rather than someone taking a heat knife and cutting uniform angle cuts along the edge. Way too labor intensive for production tires. That's what I've been thinking. The point here is... they appear to have opted for some kind of siping... that looks a bit like aftermarket siping... for these tires targetting the motorhome market. The question is, should one consider trying to mimic that with aftermarket siping... if... like many... you are not confident in the OEM Michelins... and you know there are very few options for replacement of this proprietary tire size. As I've mentioned, prior to writing the OP, I had opted to leave well enough alone. I just don't see enough legitimate evidence that it's helpful. Plenty of anecdotes. But little real evidence. Perhaps with the siping, the Michelins may offer better wet, snow and ice traction. Who knows. But the channels in the Toyos ARE deeper... which is certainly a plus in the rain. As an aside... I believe there haven't been any recent studies on aftermarket siping because... so many mud, snow and all-season tires already come chock full of sipes. So the motivation to run expensive tests is very low. This thread marks a very unique situation... which was always the point... where there really aren't well-siped options for this unique tire size beyond the flawed OEM. Thanks for weighing in.
KendallP 11/01/21 01:24pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

No siping. Run the tire the way it was designed. Agree, not necessary. Thank you for weighing in. This was my conclusion as well.
KendallP 11/01/21 12:02pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

Who are these people you keep referring to? The average MH owner has little to no knowledge of tire design...so your assertions regarding quality are suspect to begin with. I stand by my original statement that if it was needed, the manufacturer would provide it. 1. I was not talking about design. There a tons of reports, here and other sites, of very early sidewall checking on the Michelins, despite very little UV exposure. I don't know where you got that MH owners are critiquing the design. They're simply reporting what happened to their OEM tires. Perhaps Michelin has solved that problem. If more owners hadn't felt burned by Michelin, I'm sure more of them would have stuck with the OEM tires to find out. 2. The manufacturer designed the Toyos to be best suited as steers. If you go to the webpage for these tires, you will see them "Recommended" as steers and "Suitable" as drives. And if you click "Drive" tires, "22.5" on the same Toyo website, you will not see the M154 model listed. The problem is, Toyo doesn't have a drive tire anywhere near the same size as the OEM. Nor does anyone else that I could find. The Toyo M154s are very close in size to the OEM. The speedometer might run a mile or two off at 60 mph. Yokohama makes one that guys seem to like and a few other manufacturers do as well. I believe I was able to find 6 brands / models. My research indicates that the majority of owners have opted for these Toyos. So partly because the OEM tires were a proprietary size, the Toyos are considered by many owners of Freightliner DPs... that came with the Michelin tire in question... to be one of the best options for replacement of the OEM tire that was known to have premature checking issues. And yes. I respect your decision to stand by your statement. Hopefully that means we can both move on. Cheers
KendallP 11/01/21 12:01pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

Here is something about tire siping with factory and aftermarket. I can assure you that neither Michelin, nor any other tire brand, cuts their tires after they are molded. Tire siping Yeah, that one came up in my research too, but thanks! None of those look like the photo in the OP. And I looked around google photos and saw other Michelin XRVs with the same slits. Did you see the OP photo?
KendallP 10/31/21 04:33pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

From a tire warehouse dealer: Aftermarket siping can void manufacturer’s treadwear warranty. Also, while siping might provide some nominal increases in traction, you are much better off spending the extra money you would have spent on that service on better tires with appropriate siping and tread. Aftermarket siping may decrease the tread life of your tire. The engineering, high level of construction of the rubber compound and manufacturing process ensure that pre-molded sipes in the tread do not work against the expected tread life of the tire. Siping itself also reduces dry road performance as it increases tread squirm, tread wear, road noise and reduces gas mileage. The Michelin tires have pre-molded sipes which were designed as part of the overall tire tread. Judging by the photo in the OP, I'm not sure about that last sentence. Also... tread life matters not to most motorhome owners. Age is the bigger concern. The last set on this rig was changed out at 10 years and only about 10,000 miles. The next change-out will likely be 6 years and less than 10,000. But yes. Tread squirm is a concern of mine. As for better tires? Very few options to replace the proprietary OEM tire size. Also... I believe Les Scwhab has their own warranty that goes above and beyond the manufacturers'. They are known for good service. And you pay a premium for it. Often Michelin prices for Dean and other mid-level brands. Toyota installed the wife's latest Michelins. Their latest special (Buy 3, get the 4th for a dollar) was tough to pass up! Before that, it was a tire shop in a town about a half hour south. Les could get the Michelins. But at a HEAVY premium. Good on the salesman for talking me out of going through them for those tires. But for truck and motorhome tires? They're pretty much the best game in town. Thanks for weighing in.
KendallP 10/31/21 02:09pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

Ah! So you bought the RV with factory siped Michelins already on it. And are deciding to replace with the same (factory siped michelins) or Toyos. In that case, my last comment stands. I would question Michelin as to why they sipe their own tires. Is it done in accordance with their engineers to provide the best tire? Or is it a cheap fix for an engineering mistake? My guess would be the latter. Ha! You may be right. If so... I doubt Michelin will admit it. But no. The rig is on it's 3rd set and as many owners. 1. The OEM Michelins. 2. The Toyo M154s. 3. The 2nd set of Toyo M154s. The Michelins were never an option. They are notorious for coming apart at the sidewalls. But that doesn't mean their tread design or the siping is bad. But yeah... the siping looks like very similar to what the tire shop does. MY guess is... they wanted more traction without the expense of redesigning the mold... for a tire that doesn't sell much... because of its terrible reputation among it's target market. Tire Rack has a "whopping" 3 reviews of the XRV. The first was in 2011. What does that tell you? BUT... in addition... one might ASSume that the engineers... who approved the plan... were comfortable enough with the idea... knowing the company would still have to honor the warranty, including threat of lawsuit if they ever became known to come apart at risk to life and limb. I'm also reminded that the Toyo tread depth is 19/32 vs 16 for the Michelins. So more room for water in those channels. Most who have converted to the Toyos report a quiet, smooth ride. Some say better than the Michelins. I don't have a frame of reference, but I'll say this... she rides smooth and quiet. Can't hear the tires from the cabin.
KendallP 10/31/21 01:56pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

x3. I agree with Toedtoes and valhalla. But re-reading your OP for the second or third time, my impression is you're looking for validation for a decision you've already made. If so, just do it. No need to explain to us the decision. Curious how an aftermarket business who does the siping (Les Schwab) can be held to the original manufacturer's (Michelin's). If you get them to agree, kudo's to you. Good luck with your decision. Mike Actually... no. I had already decided against it. As I said in the OP, I was looking for your opinions. And I do appreciate them. Especially since they reinforce my own. :) I left a clue in post #4. After a lot of research, I was leaning away from the idea. That link... (and 2 subsequent links to be found within it)... was the final linchpin. I will say this in favor of it... 1. IMO, the CR test was flawed... at least in terms of this particular debate. They used 2 tires that already had a ton of siping from the factory. These Toyos have virtually none. While the Michelins they've replaced... do. 2. Other than CR, virtually every expert said the siping would likely garner better wet, snow and ice performance; possibly at a loss of tread life. But it's a virtual certainty that these Toyos will be changed out within 6 or 7 years... likely with something like only 10,000 miles. This rig is a family camper. Not a globe trotter. But... of course... there is also the possibility of greater road noise, lesser dry performance... death of the warranty... and... I just don't like the idea of taking decades of engineering out of the experienced engineers' hands... and placing it into those of a tire shop. Also... the tires were well proven by the previous owner... whom I knew very well. He just didn't do much driving in the rain and zero in the snow. .
KendallP 10/31/21 09:45am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

Got to agree with toedtoes on this one. Unless you are aware of a design defect that siping corrects, they would have siped them at the factory if it was needed. See reply to toadtoes above...
KendallP 10/31/21 09:38am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

I'm not missing the point. I just don't see why anyone would consider this.... ...If the tires are not appropriate or satisfactory for the vehicle/conditions, then siping will not make them suddenly appropriate or satisfactory. The only solution for that is to replace them with different tires. If the Michelin tires are siped by the manufacturer, then I would contact them and ask why they need to sipe them before making a decision. If they are siped aftermarket but before purchase, then I would not buy from that shop. I guess I thought the point was clear. The Michelins... are the OEM. And the OEM tread. They are siped. BUT... they are known to be of poor quality. And not because of the siping. The Toyos are considered to be (by motorhome owners)... one of the best replacements. But they are not the same tire... nor tread... as the OEM. They are really a commercial steer / trailer tire. Great for steers. But less than ideal for drives. There is no ideal choice here. There is no "solution... to replace them (the Toyos) with different tires." The unique size leaves fewer than usual options. One can have a "best" solution without it being an ideal one. .
KendallP 10/31/21 09:37am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

When I first saw the link about tire siping the first thing that popped in my head was Schwawb. They were (still?) heavily into that. Any more I tend to avoid them for more than one reason. Used to be a good place. Yeah. My family began using them in the late '70s, I believe it was. Les died. It was still ok for awhile and then the kids eventually sold out. I looked far and wide around here for someone who could source the Yokohamas, but to no avail. That said, I think my local shop is still good. Most of the local truckers still go there and seem really happy. What's funny is... when I set up the appointment, they didn't offer the siping. Per the OP, it was the photo of the Michelin that even sparked the memory that they used to "offer" / "upsell?" that service. I meant to look into it before the install, but an emergency sped up the process in a big way. In fact... the tech talked me out of balancing the drives in place of their much cheaper liquid stuff they use for all the truckers. He came across as a real honest young man. Well... he's probably in his mid 30s and has a family... but I'm getting to the age where most men seem young. I heard about his family when he told me the story of how he almost bought the farm. With the benefit of experience, he now has all air ride rig owners dump the air first. Said a couple of kids from up north were crushed from leaking air that way. Doesn't sound like a good way to go. They mounted them about a month ago and I called them today to ask if they still even do the siping
KendallP 10/30/21 09:29pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

So, you buy tires that were carefully researched and developed by the manufacterer and someone at a tire shop recommends they make a bunch of slashes in the tire to make it work better... If the tire isn't performing to standards, get new tires. Respectfully, you missed the point. No one said the tire isn't performing to standards. It's all in the OP.
KendallP 10/30/21 09:05pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

$113 each or total??? Total. OP updated accordingly. You're a mod. Do you have any idea why I couldn't shrink the Michelin photo without stretching it wide? Something in the HTML code the system doesn't agree with, perhaps?
KendallP 10/30/21 07:01pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Tires - To Sipe or Not to Sipe Toyo M154s

In my experience,many "swore by it" usually within a short period of time after having the new tires installed.Without giving consideration to the new tires.As time went on,I expect lots,like some I have talked to,experienced premature tire wear. More "traction",more wear. Makes sense. However, most motorhomes have more than plenty of tread left at the 6, 7 or 10 year mark when many recommend replacing them simply due to age.
KendallP 10/30/21 06:21pm Class A Motorhomes
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