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RE: What kind of quality lifepo4 do you get for $300 review

Stircrazy said, “if the battery comes with it and it actavates it totaly kills the battery.”…How so?? A quick check over at LifeBlue dispels this notion: http://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/100ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html Same thing at Renogy: https://www.renogy.com/12v-200ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-w-bluetooth/ 3 tons doesn't dispell it at all. they are just heating the battery befor it ever gets to 0 degrees. what I was talking about was just cutting off charge sources at around 0 (sorry 32 for you guys) and allowing the battery to still be used untill say -20C (not sure what that is in F this early -17 or somthing like that) just running a load like a furnace at that temp should be enought to keep the internal temp of the battery above 0c which would allow charging again. Steve There are dropin batteries out there that allow what I think you're asking, once below 0c/ 32f or what ever the assemblers call low temp charging cutoff BUT STILL ALLOW THE USE OF THE BATTERY TILL THE NEXT LOW TEMP DISCONNECT. This is Battleborn's... Battle Born Batteries protect themselves from charging in cold temperatures and won’t accept a charge once the internal cell temperature drops to 24°F. At this point they will continue to discharge even down to -4°F. At this temperature we recommend no longer pulling power to avoid damaging the batteries. Lifeblue batteries allow the same. Even my Elite GBS Batteries do the same. If any cell drops below 32f it will cut off charging but still allow the discharge use of the battery pack. Exactly, my consternation was over the statement “totally kills the battery” when this is NOT a LFP reality - the battery WILL continue to furnish power… 3 tons that depends all the BMS I have looked at totaly disconect once you hit one of your preset. generly they don't just shut off charging as they are designed with one path. I wached the video of whats his name doing the temprature tests on a battle born and at 1 degree c it totaly disabled the battery. maybe the new versions with the heat have two seperat control sections, I would love to know if thats what they are doing now. The renogy is kinda neat, but they even say there new BMS that is software driven, so sounds like some one beat me to it haha.. the tru blue doesnt give any details on how it works. or if it works the same. Steve
StirCrazy 01/17/22 01:24am Tech Issues
RE: What kind of quality lifepo4 do you get for $300 review

Stircrazy said, “if the battery comes with it and it actavates it totaly kills the battery.”…How so?? A quick check over at LifeBlue dispels this notion: http://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/100ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html Same thing at Renogy: https://www.renogy.com/12v-200ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-w-bluetooth/ 3 tons doesn't dispell it at all. they are just heating the battery befor it ever gets to 0 degrees. what I was talking about was just cutting off charge sources at around 0 (sorry 32 for you guys) and allowing the battery to still be used untill say -20C (not sure what that is in F this early -17 or somthing like that) just running a load like a furnace at that temp should be enought to keep the internal temp of the battery above 0c which would allow charging again. Steve
StirCrazy 01/16/22 06:56am Tech Issues
RE: 3d printers for making stuff for the RV

Company I used to work at used 3d printing for proof of concept and engineering mockups for some of their new products.. Works great for that. However, strength and desired finish can be less than stellar at times since the plastic is applied in layers rather than all at once. Because of that, they had actual traditional injection molds made for actual production runs for parts that strength and looks were critical. But, hey, you have it, you like it, may as well use it. it depends on the type of filiment you use and the orentation you print it in, you can build it strong. injection molding it more for the high capasity and speed. 3d printers are not known for knocing out the parts and in that world time is money. I have only don't a couple prints on mine so far. its working great, but I am waiting for a few upgrades to come in then I have to dial it in all over..
StirCrazy 01/16/22 06:51am Tech Issues
RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?

Well until you factor in dragging a bunch of propane cylinders around with you.. They do get heavy to carry, even "20 lb" weight just under 40 lbs when full.. I may be mistaken, but don't they put places to store your propane cylenders on the rv's in the US? I know every unit I have looked at in Canada has propane tanks and mounting locations for them ;) seriously though with the two 20 lbs in my camper if I am not running the furnace I can go almost two months on the fridge and cooking. the 5th wheel probably the same but its 30lb bottles.
StirCrazy 01/16/22 06:43am Travel Trailers
RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?

Your camping in a RV, right? Your RV NEEDs a 12V battery for basic functions like powering the control board in your propane fridge, right? Your battery charge does not last a month, right? You must recharge the battery periodically anyways, right? Since you obviously must recharge the RV battery, you must have solar, gen and or a huge battery bank to last more than a long weekend, right? So, where is the "advantage" of a propane fridge if you already have a battery, must have a gen and or solar and recharge the battery daily or every couple of days? advantage of a propane fridge is I can go 4-6 days before i need to recharge even with no solar or generator. No way could I go for that long with a 12V compressor fridge. If the sun is out much at all I can keep the batteries fully charged easily. With a compressor fridge, nope, I'd still be bringing out the generator even with full sun every few days. Propane advantage over batteries is propane energy content/gallon or energy content/lb is orders of magnitude higher than a battery. Now I will agree that a compressor fridge cools down faster and is less temperature sensitive than a propane fridge. So if you camp with power handy it makes sense. With LED lighting & propane fridge in nice weather battery draw is pretty low. Even in cold weather we still can go several days in cloudy weather before needing to dig out the generator. So if we had a compressor fridge when we boondock for 2 weeks I'd need to bring along more gas for the generator. As it is I seldom even use all the gas in the generator, still have lots of propane left. For us have no desire to have a compressor fridge for the type of "off grid" camping we do. If most/all our camping was at places with available 120V, then a compressor fridge would likely be high on the list. Your forgetting the mere fact that unless you have a very, very small (2 cu ft or smaller) propane fridge which doesn't need 12V for the control board your RV fridge is using battery 24/7 and when it opens the gas valve, the gas valve consumes additional battery.. I can go 24 hrs on one single pair of 6V GC2s (215 Ahr) and use less than half of that capacity. GC2s life cycles are based on using 80% of the capacity which means I can go as long as 1.5 days. If I added an extra pair of GC2s I have the capability of 3 days with no charging. If I added about 200W-300W of solar and had two pairs of GC2s I would be right at 6 days without the need for a gen. Now, to add some insult to injury to the idea that propane is "superior" I am doing this with a 120V home fridge with a inverter. 12V fridge compressors tend to be a bit more energy efficient which means 200W of solar and 4 GC2s would give you easily 7-8 days without the need for a gen. If I remember correctly 12V compressor fridges tend to only use about 25 Ahr per day which is only twice what a propane fridge with electronic control board. Granted, with my inverter I cheat a bit, it has a "power save" feature which turns the inverter on/off. When the fridge T stat calls for the compressor the inverter snaps back to life powering the fridge, when compressor shuts off, the inverter goes back to sleep. That in it's self saves me a good 24 Ahr of battery per 24 hrs. You may as well get used to the idea that propane fridges are slowly being dropped. Given the fact that compressor fridges over the yrs have become very energy efficient, battery capacities and solar are improving and the cost to build compressor based fridges are much lower. It really will not take much to adapt to a 12V or even a120V compressor fridge. You might wish to consider that propane costs have increased greatly, they are not going to get cheaper and with the all out attempts to banish everything that operates from any fossil fuel sources (propane is carbon fraction extracted from crude oils and natural gas via refining processes) it too will be in the cross hairs of extinction.. with the larger propane fridge in my 5th wheel 7cu ft, with 4 GC batteries I can go just shy of 2 weeks with out charging, and my fridge has fans to move air across the fins in the back. if I am not runing the inverter for other stuff or the furnace. so I don't realy concider 3 days that great, in fct I would be down right upset as that is 33 ah a dayassuming your only using 1/2 the capacity of your batteries and the adverage battery is around that 200ah mark. now add fringe season to that where your going to run your furnace. yes the fridge might drop off as it isnt starting up as much so say it drops to 25 AH a day, add in the furnace and your talking big draws.. my truck camper only has a 5cuft fridge but it has two GC2 208AH batteries and 325 watts of solar. the adsorbation fridge makes it so the furnace is the major draw and I can camp indefinatly in that if there is sun every two days. if I had an 12V fridge I would probably make it a weekend but beyond that would be dicy for me I think if you always camp where its above 75 degrees so you never run the furnace then ya a 12V fridge makes sence and you can compensate for it, or if you just run the furnace for a fe min to take the edge off in the morning type thing. this way you have a workable load and solar can cover it. you start adding the full time furnace into it and maybe other loads that are even more (inverter microwave, coffee pot etc) then your needeing even more batteries and larger solar and hoping you don't have many cloudy days. I do like some aspects of the 12V fridge , but you can make an adsorption fridge preform just as good and use a fraction of the power. for people that mostly plug in then adsorption fridges are awsome, just need enough power to get where your going. I am seeing the adsorption fridges more in the larger pull to a park and stay there for a month with hookups type units. don't forget large battery banks and solar are not the normal, it seams like it on here but you go out camping and its amazing how rare it is to see that kind of thing. mind you I would expect to see more of it down in the hot areas of the US , but even then gennys might be more popular. Steve
StirCrazy 01/16/22 06:38am Travel Trailers
3d printers for making stuff for the RV

I have fallen down the worm hole of 3d printing since Christmas, and was wondering if anyone else on here is playing with them. If so, how you use them when it comes to RV's. I can see them being usefull for brackets, holders, even light bases , speaker adapters and so on, but what have people actualy done. Steve
StirCrazy 01/15/22 06:44am Tech Issues
RE: What kind of quality lifepo4 do you get for $300 review

The battery tested turned out that it had no low temperature cut-off. Will Prowse has done similar tests with the same results for the cheap batteries. If you plan on using the battery and know it will not get down below freezing it would be a good choice.No Thanks! Another Minnesota resident that finds a low-temp shutoff mandatory. Enjoy, Perry I don't know about that, laitly I have been finding the prospect of getting a battery with out the low temp shut off more desiriable, let me explaine. if the battery comes with it and it actavates it totaly kills the battery. LFP batteries may not want to be charged much below 0, but they can be discharges to -20 for most of them... so in my mind it is almost betyter to build you own cold weather protection system that does two things. use a thermostat controled relay to shut off ny charge power at say 1 degree C ( battery temp not outside temp, as most of the time the discharge will keep the batteries above this temp) then you still have your ability to discharge and run stuff in the camper also warming up the battery. you could have a second relay that at -20 disconects the battery totaly and have them a normaly open relay so if there is a problem they fail open (disconected) you could also add one for a battery warming system that turns on and cycles the heat between set temps. you could use something like an ardunio or a raspberry PI to build one of these that would be reliable and cheep. Steve
StirCrazy 01/15/22 06:40am Tech Issues
RE: Trailer connect

yup they do. well not power, I have it disabled for the camper and the 5th wheel. You have what "disabled?" The 12V charge? Why don't you enable it so it comes on when the truck starts? The 10 minutes of charging you'd gain from a remote start, though, is negligible. yes the 12V charge. I disabled it becuse I have solar on both the 5th wheel and the camper, as well as 6V deep cycles that I want to have the proper charge going to. Mind you I am looking at a DC to DC charger for emergencys in the camper when I am camping in the winter.
StirCrazy 01/15/22 06:28am Truck Campers
RE: Trailer connect

Computer constantly sends tiny signal down brake wire to sense trailers brake magnets presence. So it knows automatically. What if you have disc brakes...no magnets? there is actualy a setting for hyd trailer brakes in the dash menu.
StirCrazy 01/15/22 06:24am Truck Campers
RE: Freaking RV manufacturers

That's nonsense. If it was true that not paying MSRP for something made them bad then ever car on the road would be bad as well. Manufacturers and dealers set a high MSRP as the consumer has come to expect a huge discount. The manufacturer and the dealer still make the expected profit when the unit is sold. The consumer simply "feels better" about his amazing negotiating powers! Right. Competition in the marketplace is what fuels better quality and prices. When we start to see foreign RV's being imported that are better made and cost less US manufacturers will change it's process to compete. Until then it's going to be the status quo of paying for shiny gadgets. :R When pigs fly on their own and "man" has completely stopped "climate change". Business is very complicated, just because there is "competition", does not necessarily mean lower cost, nor does it mean better quality or a combination of both. Take a good hard look at automobiles, we have plenty of foreign brand names who have dipped their feet into the US market.. If you were correct, the domestic name brands would have 100% perfect builds and be affordable for all. The truth is even the foreign brands build junk, they ship the junk to us and it is not priced any cheaper than the domestic brand names... Wrong. In the 70's this is exactly what happened. The US auto industry was completely overtaken by foreign brands forcing US to step up in terms of quality, efficiency, longevity and price. The US auto industry would not be where it is today had that not happened. The rest is rhetoric and moot because it actually happened. You could also name a dozen other products where this occurred. If someone creates a better and cheaper product people will buy it. It's only a matter of time. Were they realy that much better, I say no, but let me explain my reasioning. in the early 70's epa or what ever they were clled then and the goverment made some big changes and mandated fuel milage requirments and also horsepower limits that afected registration rates, insurance and taxes (not sure if this was universal in both Canada and the US or in every state) so this put the North american industry into a state of flux and redesign, cars started getting smaller in size and engines, which also ment new engine designs. the invsion of the Forgine car maers was perfectly timed as which ford, cheve and dodge were having new design blues the normal quality toyotas, datsun, honda, ect showed up. these cars were not new and were on there 3, 4 or more generation of the same platform so the bugs were worked out, and it was only in the early 80's when the north american companies caught up and passed them. To me it was to be expected and nothing to do with bad quality, but rather new product blues, like you see any time they bring out a new engine design or such.
StirCrazy 01/08/22 06:45am Tech Issues
RE: this is why

Well, LFP’s certainly more than fit my own dry-camping needs, but at the warp-speed technology is moving nowadays, my guess is that they are merely transitional until an even a more power dense, solid-state battery technology arrives onto the scene - probably about the time my 10yr LFP warranty runs out - this, hopefully, before me - ugg, lol ?? 3 tons ya most of the stuff I have found so far points to solid state, and modified chemistry Li. the two most promising ones are at the point they are almost big enough to be a small watch battery. Steve
StirCrazy 01/06/22 07:24am Tech Issues
RE: LiFePo4 vs Lead Acid...Some points of interest.

cost is a mute point in my opinion, your never going to be as cheep as a FLA set up, but if you are going to match capacity for cold weather preformance and take life into consideration then that changes. also for some reason people like comparting cost wise to the cheepest sams club battery, at least compare premium batteries to a LFP as thats what it is. the article is pretty deicent, it still is just a companies buying guide but they don't seam to be pushing one way or the other. Ten misspelled words in three sentences. You're Moot Cheap Performance Comparing Cheapest Decent Company's Seem Also no punctuation. 54% of American adults cannot read or write prose beyond a sixth grade level. https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2020/09/09/low-literacy-levels-among-us-adults-could-be-costing-the-economy-22-trillion-a-year oh are you ever cute. yes my spelling sucks and it always has because aa long time ago in grade school canada was looking at going to a phonetic dictonary to be different from both the US and England. so randome classes across Canada were chosen and a three year exparament of teaching them how to spell that way began. Spell check is my friend which this antique board doesn't have and probably won' install like other boards. as for grammer that is the only way I got through highschool but at 4 to 5 am when I am having my morning coffee and in a hurry to get through the reading, do you realy thing I give a **** and am going to re read every thing and corect what my fat thumbs hit wrong? as for education, Im not going to get into a my %$#^ is bigger than yours like the americans seam to like doing, but my specialty is in math and sciences and the only time I worry about spelling is when I am writing papers and reports.
StirCrazy 01/06/22 07:19am Tech Issues
RE: Sizing a battery bank. Ah VS wh?

Surprisingly, Steve's above post has many errors wrt PWM and MPPT. It would be easier to delete it than try to correct it all. I am not feeling like trying to. good you think so but it matches how my two systems work perfectly , in low light there is even more of a difference.
StirCrazy 01/05/22 08:09am Tech Issues
RE: Sizing a battery bank. Ah VS wh?

Steve's above post has many errors... He could use a good spell checker too. I could
StirCrazy 01/05/22 08:08am Tech Issues
RE: this is why

Don't be puerile. -30- seriously thought, any studies like what you are sugesting, that we could bring in here would probably only makes sence to a hand full of people and 99.9% of them don't want to know that much. I can look and see if there is any sumeries that would make more sence but the problem there also is any peer reviewed paper usaly goes onto a pay for download site and I don't see it worth paying for. I just want people to stop using sales pitches and outdated information as gosple. but I am on 4 days off work right now so I'll see if I can find anything for you. Steve Can’t speak as to our Northern Friends, but education in America has been horribly debased over recent decades, a degree today roughly equates to a HS diploma a mere century ago…Unfortunately, this trend also effects higher Academia whereby so-called celebrated ‘peer reviews’ have been compromised as well due to marginalized PhD’s standards (pal-peer reviews), and due to ‘outcome based modeling’ funded by a huge infusion of ‘results oriented’ Gov’t Grant moola used to fund faux science research (aka, medieval Scientism)…A retrenchment of modern Civilization… 3 tons Upon edit, Elon Musk stated “that an 18 yr old kid who can’t get a small business loan, can get a $100k Student load, tells you all you need to know”!! yup, and to top it all off any paper that is pear reviewed would have to be sumerized so most people wouldnt fall asleep before they got anything out of it. I read 3 yeaterday but didn't apply to what I was looking for, but one thing of interest for Pianotuna as I know he likes keeping up on the new tech. they are combining SI02 into the cathode, or was it the anode?, one of them... of a LFP battery which is showing increased capacity in storage and discharge, just thought it was kinda neat as thats the kinda stuff showing up in my search haha. the problem I am having right now is every "New" battery compares its self to normal batteries or AGM as they have been the standard for so long, I havent found any research comparasons between LFP and SIO2 yet, except for a few retail sales driven ones that contain false or misleading or incomplet information as we all know they do.
StirCrazy 01/05/22 08:00am Tech Issues
RE: Norcold 9.7 (10) cu ft 12 volt compressor fridge?

We have the 12v fridge you're describing with a 480 AH bank (4×120) and it's been a minimal draw. We have yet had to manage battery usage beyond what we previously were used to with 480 AH AGM (4×120 series/parallel). The fridge has a night/sleep mode, and has performed flawlessly. I had a 2014 Mammoth with the standard 2-way Dometic that had issues probably due to not enough ventilation and possibly too much un-levelness. I opened the camper side door and found greenish coolant puked out on the vinyl floor. Coincidence the back window is big enough to throw an old fridge thru? do you know what the average fridge AH consumption is in a 24 hour period?
StirCrazy 01/05/22 07:51am Truck Campers
RE: Sizing a battery bank. Ah VS wh?

“That seems like such a little amount. I thought it would be more about the solar's charging rates. Like "25amps per hour" or 25ah x 4.5hrs of sunlight = 100 amps charged in 'one day.' I havnt quite gotten to that research yet...” if you looking at it as 25AH then no, they will never put out full power. a 12V panel on a PWM controler will put out 17ish v all day long which is 17v to the controler at 17.6 amps. since a PWM doesnt convert it only used a percentage of that and is faily inefficent so lets say 14.4 at about 15 amps. this should be fairly close as 480 watts of 12V panels on a PWM in my 5th wheel will only give me about 23 amps. this changes when you go to something like MPPT controler and say what I have on my camper which is a 72 cell 24V panel. this puts out aproximatly 32 to 36v depending on the panel so with a MPPT controler it is actualy a built in dc to dc charger so it takes that input and converts it directly to the output voltage and you only lose the effeciency of the controler. mine is 98.6% so lets pick 34V at 300 watts that is 8.8 amps but since the battery needs 14.4 it converts it to that output - the effeciency loss so you end up with 295.8 watts of 14.4v and 20.54 amps. so the same output panel in different configurations with different controlers in ideal conditions can varry widely with out having to get into increased preformance in low light of a split cell 24V panel. I realy started looking into this when I found I got more charging out of a 325 watt system than my 480 watt system and wondered why. Steve
StirCrazy 01/03/22 04:26pm Tech Issues
RE: this is why

Don't be puerile. -30- seriously thought, any studies like what you are sugesting, that we could bring in here would probably only makes sence to a hand full of people and 99.9% of them don't want to know that much. I can look and see if there is any sumeries that would make more sence but the problem there also is any peer reviewed paper usaly goes onto a pay for download site and I don't see it worth paying for. I just want people to stop using sales pitches and outdated information as gosple. but I am on 4 days off work right now so I'll see if I can find anything for you. Steve
StirCrazy 01/03/22 04:10pm Tech Issues
RE: this is why

are you but hurt? :BIt's butt hurt, not but hurt. Either way, rude. it was from a different post which he brought here. it also was a joke hence the smily face.
StirCrazy 01/03/22 04:06pm Tech Issues
RE: Trailer connect

I have a 14F350 and my camper doesnt show up at all. I believe it used the brake circut to sence if there is something on it but I am not positive on that. it makes sence though as my camper is the only thing that doesnt show up. Steve But the lights and power still work, correct? OP must be insinuating that that stuff doesn’t work until brake depressed. Which seems odd, although I don’t know how the newer Fords work. yup they do. well not power, I have it disabled for the camper and the 5th wheel. Steve
StirCrazy 01/03/22 03:56pm Truck Campers
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