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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
Stopped at a cat scale on the way to the sand dunes. Fully loaded with sand rail back in. 1250 lbs tongue weight according to the weigh safe hitch. They were real busy so I did not separate the truck and camper to re way. Had a decent load of fire wood I. The back of the truck along with a smoker under the topped.
Still squirrly in side wind but far far better then the first trip with the rail pulled in.
https://i.postimg.cc/FfRtNqt3/20230426-091626.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/G46NnpQw/20230422-221916.jpg
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dsrace
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04/29/23 06:16am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
Any chance you took it to the cat scales since it's spring?
It's less than $20 to get real data rather than more guesses and salesman who have no idea selling you something that may or may not fix the problem.
so i have not taken it to the cat scales. i do intend too but with all the work i had to do to the toyhauler to get it prepped for a trip, i ran out of time. i did put the weigh safe hitch in to check tongue weight. dune sport said they weighed the unit at the factory. i know that doesn't mean much until verified but the stated 7200 lbs empty with 1200 lb tw. so , according to weigh safes hitch, i have 1250 lbs tw empty. when i say that, i have bedding on the bed, prob 100 lbs of gear under the bed, 50 lb steel tool box in place of the lead acid batteries, fully stocked bathroom, with kitchenware and pans but no food, clothes, tool boxs or sand rail. 1300 lbs tw in that stage, so they were probably correct. pulling the sand rail in that drops to 750 lbs tw ! backing the sand rail in that stays at 1300 lbs, with rail pushed to the ramp gate as in the tires touching the ramp gate. the ramp gate down drops 100 lbs of tw vs in the closed position. thought that was interesting. i have 12" of room to push the rail forward and back with it backed in. so moving it forward to almost touching the fridge adds 200 lbs tw! that was surprising imo as i never would've guess that pivot point was that close. with the camper fully loaded for sand dunes trip, rail 4" off the gate, 100 lb tool box loaded against the gate, two folding chairs against the gate, fresh, black and grey tanks empty....... 1250 lbs tw. i am using an anderson wdh for the sway reduction more then the wdh part. with it set as it was before the front end drops .5" lower then unloaded height, back end ( measuring from wheel wells to the ground) sits 1" higher then the front with only 15 psi in my rear air bags, a tool box, a decent load of fire wood and a green mountain smoker in the back of the truck. heading out now for a dune trip so we will see how it pulls this time with 1250 lbs tw. i will make an adjustment to the hitch along the way.
they stated 7200 lbs empty, i know the sand rail weighs 1960 lbs wet, i know the roll around tool box i take weighs 100 lbs, i know the steel storage box/tool box i mounted in place of the lead acid batts on the tongue weighs 50 lbs empty, 7 nuts bolts small parts organizers under the bed that easily weigh another 100 lbs..... all loaded up, empty water tanks, i wouldn't be surprised if it weighs 10,200 lbs loaded.
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dsrace
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04/26/23 04:41am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: purchased a custom dune sport toyhauler
Hoping to run to the cat scale this weekend to weigh the truck and trailer loaded for a camping trip. Might run back and load the rail and weigh it loaded as well.
Been re working dune sport custom winch install since mon evening. They used 4- 1/4" lag screws to screw a 12" long 2x6 to the floor and another 4 to screw the winch to the 2x6. Obviously the back 2 will pull trying to wind up 2000 lbs. 8' long rope gate and a 36" climb. Not the worst but lag screws into osb/ply wood doesn't cut it imo.
Made some plates that bolt the winch to the floor and the steel left to 4ight cross frame underneath. Best I could do and waaaaay better then lag screws. The front lag screws began to pull out. Got really lucky the winch went into thermal over load and shut down before the winch blew off the floor and shot at us, letting the buggy run down the ramp gate.
They used a 3500 lb badlands winch from harbor freight. Nothing wrong with that brand imo, i have never had issues with them before. At 2k lb and half spool, badlands states on the box that the winch has a 130 amp draw. My 200 ah agm battery is 14' from the winch. 28' round trip as this is dc power and dune sport used 8g wire. Between the terminals not being even finger tight and to light of wire, prob why the winch shut down.
Spent the last few days re inforcing the attachment and stepped up to a 4500 lb winch that only has an 80 amp draw at 2k lbs and half spool. Going to install a 50 ah lithium next to the winch with its own charger. Plenty of room and I'm only pulling it up an 8' long ramp gate and 14' into the camper..... 4 times a year. So much for the $550 winch option.
https://i.postimg.cc/xkZhZJZW/20230408-174537.jpg
badlands 3500 lb winch draw
https://i.postimg.cc/mtc19tft/Capture-1.png
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dsrace
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04/13/23 01:41pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
also, i called and spoke with a rep from hensley on thrusday. man was in his early 60's , no didn't aske he actually told me. he has been there many years and has a lot of detailed info to offer for the asking. out of the conversation i found it interesting that they claim a money back guarantee that even with a tiny amount of negative tongue weight, their hitch will prevent sway. i don't doubt his conviction not the info but would be skeptical until i tried this for myself. even with their current sale they are still $3k though. pro pride is $3800 right now but did not speak with them. i will make another run with the trailer as balanced as possible but ( in this particular case ) sure seems to be a lot more effort required for a bumper hitch vs a fiver/gn.
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dsrace
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03/25/23 07:59am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
Any chance you took it to the cat scales since it's spring?
It's less than $20 to get real data rather than more guesses and salesman who have no idea selling you something that may or may not fix the problem.
i simply saw that and inquired about it for the info. i just posted it as to show there is another building and selling. i did buy a weigh safe hitch but have not pulled the trailer out as the ground is very soft still and the snow is still melting. most of it is gone but it will be a little while yet. it was 60* yesterday and that was sooooo nice. it snowed last week here but not much. there is not white rock or concrete back to the building its stored in. im hoping by next week i can get it out and weigh it. i have been repairing and prepping a second sand rail i have. this one is a couple hundred lbs heavier so that will be the best to use to set it up correctly. i have not downloaded the cat app yet but will and the there is a cat scale 20 miles from me.
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dsrace
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03/25/23 07:49am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
saw that another company is making the gn conversion. i emailed and same specs as bpconverion on weight rating. this companies hitch is $5500 and almost 600 lbs though.
https://youtu.be/QrfysAbUjYo
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dsrace
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03/24/23 04:55pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Forest River RV XLR Boost 37TSX13? Any owners on here?
If your hauling heavier toys, the triple axle will be more stable in the wind and carry the load more evenly, imo. Not sure if GD still does but that 350g had an option of 8k lbs axles for a little more ccc. I have never owned a GD but looked into purchasing a 40' fiver. I have owned 2 first river toyhauler and they were the least amount of maintenece/issues out of the 6 toyhaulers i have owned.
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dsrace
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03/08/23 09:29am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Mattresses!
My wife found a 4" thick adjustable foam topper at bed bath Nd beyond. We gave it a try on top of the oem mattress and it has been very nice. I need a more firm mattress or my back kills me as I am a side sleeper. That topper has foam rods that go through it that you can shift in different places to get the support right where it needs to be. Cut them in half and you can adjust his and hers individually. We only made 2 adjustments to get it spot on.
https://youtu.be/9wK3Waqrvq8
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dsrace
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02/09/23 11:20am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: 2016
Congratulations on rr.
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dsrace
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02/09/23 11:14am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
My Coach has an 18CF fridge. I have yet to see a 12V fridge that big. I have looked at the specs on some 8CF ones. They are remarkably similar in specs. All of them would drain a 100 AH Battle Born battery every day. So I am pretty sure an 18CF 12V would need two 100 AH batteries each day. To keep my current amount of headroom for bad events, I would need to add 3 Battle Born 100AH batteries. Then I would need to add enough solar to feed them. That is not happening. Not enough room on the roof, and my Solar controllers are maxed out.
I am not interested in going on a electricity consumption diet.
I will keep my gas fridge, thank you very much
With out a doubt, 12 volt comp fridges do not fit everyone's needs. All of my sand dune trip are at parks that have either full hook up or a min of water and electricity. Based on real world trial and the specs in my previous post, our 10 cu ft domestic 12v will easily run 24 hrs on battery only. Im only using 1 200 ah renogy agm. If I were boondocks long term, then the fridge would require a gen or more solar then my current 200 watt system. 200 watts is more of a battery maintainer then a charging system, imo. I thought I saw domestic offered a 13 cu ft 12v but not 100 % on that. I have had 6 campers and 5 of them had absorption fridges. None of those fridges perform like our current domestic 12v as listed in previous post. For our application, I wouldn't willingly go back to an absorption fridge.
This 12v is food safe in 4hrs after start up. Much better for our application as I don't have to turn it on 24 to 48 hrs before. Only the 2 of us and a 10 cu ft is massive over kill. On a 7 day trip we didn't completely fill an 8 cu ft. I doubt the 8 cu ft is any diff on power consumption.
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dsrace
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01/16/23 08:44am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
the simply answer to the op's question is, personal application. the end users wants are what it all comes down to. some have no issues with the functionality of a conventional lp/electric rv fridge where others want the functionality of a conventional compressor fridge.
i opted for the dometic 12 v dmc4101 in our current camper. i have never had any great experiences with lp/elect rv fridges four our use in the last 5 rv's over the last 20 some years. never had one fail but on hot days they struggle to get the job done. when i say that i mean, one can leave a can of soda in the freezer overnight w/o fear of it bursting.
i ran across some test results conducted by mike at rv travel. they were the deciding factor to go with the dometic dcm 4101 and in particularly because it has 3 different power level settings where most of the other brands do not. not saying it is better or worse then other brands just saying it meets my wants better then the other brands. here is a link to that article and a pic of his test results on a single 100 ah battery. i only have 200 watts of solar and a 200 ah renogy agm battery.
https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-jam-dometic-power-usage-part-1/
https://i.postimg.cc/gn30VZJs/dometicdcm4101.jpg
if one was only opening the fridge 2 to 3 times a day then one could leave it in eco mode with only a 3.5 amp draw, when it cycled. it does not run for an hr every time it cycles either.
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dsrace
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01/14/23 06:34am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: First RV,Travel Trailer, Toy Hauler ever!
if that is the label from the toyhauler then yes, that would seem correct. that is one of the better ones for ccc ! not sure i would travel far with 135 gal's of water in tow but you **** sure can in that unit.
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dsrace
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01/13/23 12:10pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: First RV,Travel Trailer, Toy Hauler ever!
Yes Ds the ladder is bent but it is an 09 and cheaper the the WW with he same floor plan and two years newer and has almost double the payload so prob will end up with the FR...
Never know when looking at pictures. Based one your response, it seems like the better choice......as long as there is damage to the roof from what ever they struck. Or at the very least, more damage then your willing to fix. Beyond that, it sounds like the better choice based on ccc.
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dsrace
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01/12/23 09:50am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: First RV,Travel Trailer, Toy Hauler ever!
Maybe its just the picture but the sand storm looks like It has a bent ladder. Or I should say the top of the ladder looks bent backwards like they ran into something. Both will be a handful to tow at higher speeds in wind. Basically you need the one with 4500 lb plus cargo capacity.
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dsrace
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01/11/23 11:35am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
It’s not pin weight.
here are two screen shots of their email response. once they said the 10k lb rating on their site is pin weight i sent a second asking if the hitch is rated for 15k lb trailer as mine is 10,500 lbs loaded. the response was interesting. put a smile on my face too. :)
"Here's our theory, as long as your trailer brakes are maintained and adjusted properly the GVW should remain on the trailer. Having the trailer brakes set a little hard is what we would recommend. "
personally, i am going to check this one off the list at this point.
https://i.postimg.cc/qzvF4MJB/Capture.png
https://i.postimg.cc/56KR0dyB/Capture-PNG-1.png
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dsrace
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01/09/23 03:26pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
It’s not pin weight.
This thread is what, ten days old? I just figured out earlier this morning that you're talking about a bumper pull and not a 5th wheel. I should have clicked the link earlier, but the pin weight / tongue weight talk was really throwing me off.
I can see how that would. Its a little of both....sort of :B
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dsrace
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01/09/23 02:03pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
It’s not pin weight.
There response said 10k lb pin weight rating. No mention of a trailer weight rating. Sent another email asking.
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dsrace
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01/09/23 02:02pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
I have 2-7k lb axles honestly don't know the gvwr but at a min 14k. Between 10k lbs and 10,500 lbs loaded. That does pose an issue.
Just sent them an email asking if that is a 10k lb pin weight rating or a 10k lb gtw rating.
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dsrace
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01/09/23 07:45am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
Idk if this helps, hope it does from perspective alone. It’s like a homework or exam question from college to me! Lol.
you are absolutely correct :B
$3800 is a fair chunk of change to throw in the fire if it doesn't correct the issue. i know i can shift 300 lbs to the nose and not sure exactly how much of that will be true tw. i know that the gn hitch will add 350 lbs but when the owner of bp stated it will relieve up to 30% due to the length, that struck me as counter productive. i will know more once i am able to get it to the scales and the weigh safe hitch shows up. might be worth it for better sway control in the wind and winch the rail in backwards.
nothing to do with the GN hitch but......when we sold the 295 wolf pack fifthwheel, it was because i was tired of hauling that in all conditions. 7 to 10 hrs of travel and it wears on me, as i get older. i wanted something smaller and easier to tow, that my wife could take over driving as well. we sold it and bought a 2021 genesis supreme overnighter fk toyhauler. it is a new spin on an old design.
they are 2 person units imo and fantasic for one person with only 12' of camper on the front.
1.5 years into owning it, our children decided they wanted to start making the dune trips with us. they can afford to purchase a camper but have no place to store/ maintain one. one of us was more then happy to sell the overnighter for a larger toyhauler! :B i really liked the overnighter. it towed so well behind my drw, even in 35 mph gusting wind. it is a unit that i can literally throw my bag in though the door and jump in the truck and go. only 32' long oal so still easy to navigate fuel stations. it was a bit of an adjustment dropping down from a 34' fifthwheel or was for one of us ;) in hind sight i should've put $6k into the fiver and kept it. it still looked great as it was kept inside. if i could afford two, i would buy another overnighter! probably the rk model this time though. the fk model we owned weighed in at 5400 lbs empty with 1500 lbs tw! i weighed that one to know for sure and for once, the factory was correct. had a custom cover made at a boat shop for the sand rail too. if i can get the new one to tow 2/3 rd's as nice as the overnighter, i will be happy.
https://i.postimg.cc/R6R6Lf6v/530.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/DW3SV512/619.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/TpSy0Tw5/thumbnail-IMG-20200430-082102.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/56jY8XxM/thumbnail-IMG-20200430-082734.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/LhxgqtFT/thumbnail-IMG-20200718-111543.jpg
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dsrace
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01/08/23 08:29am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
Reading your other thread about the purchase, I’ll suggest based on what you wrote that you may have had them build a unit that they just couldn’t get the weights as you needed them to be.
I totally agree with you. And nothing against the mfg or your choice.
If anything I could make a case that they tried to balance the load vs tongue weight better rather than just making the empty tongue weight obtrusively heavy.
I never weighed the TH in my sig but air pressure and surface area makes for an easy weight calculation and based on required airbag pressure to return to unloaded ride height (didn’t haul with that much pressure I’d let the springs take some of the static load of course) the tongue weight of that I’ll call it mid size toyhauler was every bit of 16-1800lbs with an empty garage and full LP, 2 GC batteries and a “normal” amount of stuff loaded in the front storage and front bedroom.
Doing some quick math I could have put 1000lbs at the very back of the trailer (like an @ss heavy big buggy like yours) and maintained a sufficient tongue weight, > 1000lbs on the tongue.
So in a sense, my trailer had the opposite issue as yours. Even with say 4 dirt bikes or quads, I wouldn’t have taken off a great amount of tongue weight.
Back to the everything about different RVs is some sort of compromise. And yours happens to fall slightly on the wrong side of acceptable compromise for the load you’re carrying.
Which tends to happen and some considerations are required when using any equipment close to its limitations.
Will be interesting and telling to see the actual weights on your hitch.
Once you have a couple actual weights, you can use the dimensions of the trailer, axle cenrterline and estimated load weight placement to see how the gn conversion would affect the pin weight and how moving the axles aft would affect either tongue or pin.
The ultimate solution and a distinct advantage to gn/5ver trailers (all of them including semis) vs bumper pull is the ability to get the “tongue” weight over the tow rig rear axle(s) thus allowing a far higher pin weight than could be sustained as tongue weight.
That’s why there are very few high capacity bp trailers. Big tag trailers designed to haul equipment behind 10 wheel dump trucks are the only obvious ones I can think of. And in the big trailer world, they have similar limitations compared to drop decks and gooseneck trailers. Just on a larger scale.
The bulletproof solution is the GN attachment AND moving the axles aft. Which makes it a non starter and better off to just go find a 5th wheel toyhauler again. But hopefully you can find a balance that is acceptable and within practical means and expense with your existing setup.
interesting you state...."And nothing against the mfg or your choice.
If anything I could make a case that they tried to balance the load vs tongue weight better rather than just making the empty tongue weight obtrusively heavy. " ....... i didn't take that as anything against dune sport or my choice. i welcome constructive criticism.
it's interesting because during one of my last calls with the owner ( brad ), he asked how it towed. i explained it towed quite nice empty but was tongue light loaded and explained why. he replied that they have had several complaints (over time) that their toyhaulers are too tongue heavy. he stated they have tried to remedy that as much as they could. he then suggested backing the sand rail in. i explained that as the saleman was told, i ordered this custom unit so that A. i don't have to swap rear tires out for trailering and B. so i can pull it in, rather then backing it in as that is not an option. he changed the subject abrubptly, i took that as my answer ;). backing it in, requires changing tires and winching it in. a real pain but i can do it, i wasn't going to tell him that :) that is why i said that i understand that wasn't something they can or will adjust. based on his statement of lightening tongue weights due to complaints.....not sure if they are spec'ing the trailers diff from lci or just said that.
as i ordered this one built to our custom floor plan, for our specific use, i need to remedy this and keep it. this may not be the floor plan everyone would choose and i get that. it checks 98% of our box's and that is not easy to do in the camper world. a fiver would've been a lot better, clearly, but they have to be a bit longer for the same cargo length. not only that but they are a foot taller, heavier and more expensive. they built one GN version w/o an upper deck but, i wanted to keep it more standard in case of disaster and the toyhauler has to be sold. never know when one will get layed up or die especially out on the sand dunes. hind sight being 20/20..... would've towed better :)and i could've mounted a 30 gal fuel tank up there to carry e85 for my sand rail.
https://i.postimg.cc/rRp53gxh/gn-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/BtZ5jZkx/gn-2.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/qgmsyVHW/gn-3.jpg
i can personally move the axles back, that isn't a problem. the problem would be re sale. if i move them back then the GN hitch has to go with it rather then moved to another unit. tongue weight would be excessive w/o the gn hitch at that point. well, 1600 lbs tw would'nt be imo hmmm
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dsrace
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01/08/23 07:45am |
Toy Haulers
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