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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
Reading your other thread about the purchase, I’ll suggest based on what you wrote that you may have had them build a unit that they just couldn’t get the weights as you needed them to be.
I totally agree with you. And nothing against the mfg or your choice.
If anything I could make a case that they tried to balance the load vs tongue weight better rather than just making the empty tongue weight obtrusively heavy.
I never weighed the TH in my sig but air pressure and surface area makes for an easy weight calculation and based on required airbag pressure to return to unloaded ride height (didn’t haul with that much pressure I’d let the springs take some of the static load of course) the tongue weight of that I’ll call it mid size toyhauler was every bit of 16-1800lbs with an empty garage and full LP, 2 GC batteries and a “normal” amount of stuff loaded in the front storage and front bedroom.
Doing some quick math I could have put 1000lbs at the very back of the trailer (like an @ss heavy big buggy like yours) and maintained a sufficient tongue weight, > 1000lbs on the tongue.
So in a sense, my trailer had the opposite issue as yours. Even with say 4 dirt bikes or quads, I wouldn’t have taken off a great amount of tongue weight.
Back to the everything about different RVs is some sort of compromise. And yours happens to fall slightly on the wrong side of acceptable compromise for the load you’re carrying.
Which tends to happen and some considerations are required when using any equipment close to its limitations.
Will be interesting and telling to see the actual weights on your hitch.
Once you have a couple actual weights, you can use the dimensions of the trailer, axle cenrterline and estimated load weight placement to see how the gn conversion would affect the pin weight and how moving the axles aft would affect either tongue or pin.
The ultimate solution and a distinct advantage to gn/5ver trailers (all of them including semis) vs bumper pull is the ability to get the “tongue” weight over the tow rig rear axle(s) thus allowing a far higher pin weight than could be sustained as tongue weight.
That’s why there are very few high capacity bp trailers. Big tag trailers designed to haul equipment behind 10 wheel dump trucks are the only obvious ones I can think of. And in the big trailer world, they have similar limitations compared to drop decks and gooseneck trailers. Just on a larger scale.
The bulletproof solution is the GN attachment AND moving the axles aft. Which makes it a non starter and better off to just go find a 5th wheel toyhauler again. But hopefully you can find a balance that is acceptable and within practical means and expense with your existing setup.
interesting you state...."And nothing against the mfg or your choice.
If anything I could make a case that they tried to balance the load vs tongue weight better rather than just making the empty tongue weight obtrusively heavy. " ....... i didn't take that as anything against dune sport or my choice. i welcome constructive criticism.
it's interesting because during one of my last calls with the owner ( brad ), he asked how it towed. i explained it towed quite nice empty but was tongue light loaded and explained why. he replied that they have had several complaints (over time) that their toyhaulers are too tongue heavy. he stated they have tried to remedy that as much as they could. he then suggested backing the sand rail in. i explained that as the saleman was told, i ordered this custom unit so that A. i don't have to swap rear tires out for trailering and B. so i can pull it in, rather then backing it in as that is not an option. he changed the subject abrubptly, i took that as my answer ;). backing it in, requires changing tires and winching it in. a real pain but i can do it, i wasn't going to tell him that :) that is why i said that i understand that wasn't something they can or will adjust. based on his statement of lightening tongue weights due to complaints.....not sure if they are spec'ing the trailers diff from lci or just said that.
as i ordered this one built to our custom floor plan, for our specific use, i need to remedy this and keep it. this may not be the floor plan everyone would choose and i get that. it checks 98% of our box's and that is not easy to do in the camper world. a fiver would've been a lot better, clearly, but they have to be a bit longer for the same cargo length. not only that but they are a foot taller, heavier and more expensive. they built one GN version w/o an upper deck but, i wanted to keep it more standard in case of disaster and the toyhauler has to be sold. never know when one will get layed up or die especially out on the sand dunes. hind sight being 20/20..... would've towed better :)and i could've mounted a 30 gal fuel tank up there to carry e85 for my sand rail.
https://i.postimg.cc/rRp53gxh/gn-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/BtZ5jZkx/gn-2.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/qgmsyVHW/gn-3.jpg
i can personally move the axles back, that isn't a problem. the problem would be re sale. if i move them back then the GN hitch has to go with it rather then moved to another unit. tongue weight would be excessive w/o the gn hitch at that point. well, 1600 lbs tw would'nt be imo hmmm
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dsrace
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01/08/23 07:45am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
Reading your other thread about the purchase, I’ll suggest based on what you wrote that you may have had them build a unit that they just couldn’t get the weights as you needed them to be.
yes i did give them the info with the hopes they had some sort of modeling program they could feed the info into. apparently they do not or forgot to or they do not want to move axles on the frames. either way this is what it is. i do understand that is difficult with out know what everything will weigh, forward of the axles, on a custom build. they buy the trailers from lci and modify them, some.
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dsrace
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01/07/23 07:15am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
ordered the weigh safe aero hitch yesterday. 6" drop as i need a 7" rise for the toyhauler. this was the cheapest one they offered at $159 on amazon and it will work well for my two other flat beds. one needs a straight and the other a 4" drop. it is rated for 12500 lbs gtw and 1500 lbs tw, sooooo tech it would work with the toyhauler https://www.weigh-safe.com/product/weigh-safe-aero-hitch/ i will go to the cat scale as well but if i don't have atleast 1000 lbs tw loaded with the sand rail then time to shift weight or add weight.
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dsrace
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01/07/23 07:08am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
i installed an After market hitch, it is rated for 2200 lbs tw. The Anderson wdh is also.
location of the fresh water tanks..... one is directly above the center of the 2 axles and the 2nd is over the front axle protruding forward. 2 -50 gal fresh water tanks plumbed together. Black and gray tanks are farther forward and 50 gal each. I am not opposed to adding tractor weights to the tongue in the tool box either.
i did order a weigh safe hitch today so i can measure when the weather gets better.
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dsrace
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01/06/23 12:39pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
So I do plan on weighing it once the weather is better. I definitely need to know real weights. I will not be purchasing the bp kit until I know true weights of my toyhauler. I do have 200 lbs I can drop off the tail and add to the front and have added a 50 lb steel tool box to the battery tray area. My sealed arm batt is inside the storage compartment. There is an easy 50 lbs of equip that will be in the tool box or tractor weights lol none the less an easy 200 lb off the tail and 300 lb addition to the front. I do know I won't actually see the full 300 on tw as some will fall on the axles. The 200 lbs off the far tail end will be see on tw!! If I were to guess I bet I see a 50 lb to 100 lb addition to two just by dropping the spares and there carrier frame.
I decided to call bp directly yesterday afternoon. Very nice guy, spent time answering my questions .....in detail.
He stated that bumper hitch toyhauler as the vast majority of their customers. He listened to my experience and said that basically the same story he's been told by every customer.
I asked if the 350 lbs actually added to two. I told him him that yes, I know unhitched that I know it would. I also stated that the apprx 6' extension by the GN would act like longer handles on a wheel barrel. He said, the 350 lbs is added to two but then with the length added by the GN that one loses just under 30% back onto the axles. He stated the control over the land is massive and I explained i have towed fiver and GN's before and know the difference.
In a nut shell, based on. How i understood his description..... add 350lbs to tw and then deduct up to 30% from total tw.???? I would assume up to 30% is based on land configuration and length of trailer etc etc.
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dsrace
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01/06/23 09:48am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
$4000? That is a solution just looking for a problem.
Lol good point and If I had known of that product before ordering this toyhauler I would bought a 35' er, triple axle and added the bpconversion.
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dsrace
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01/06/23 09:23am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
It sure sounds like you are light on tongue weight now. As you said a fifth wheel/goose neck should have 25% of the weight on the pin. If you are light now, how will you ever have the weight you need with the conversion? A fiver with too light pin weight is just as bad as a bumper pull.
so the GN conversion would all but remove sway,
That is not true in all cases. Twice I have pulled goose neck flat beds that had too light of tongue weight. Got plumb scary over about 50 mph, until we stopped and shifted some cargo forward. My point is that if too little tongue weight is your problem now, the goose neck conversion may not fix it. Start my knowing your current weights.
Yes, they can get squirrly if tongue light. Yes I will be weighing as soon as the weather get better. As I stated in my previous post, I have an addition 300 lbs i can shift to the nose. I had stated that I did not want to do so if it would create a tongue heavy scenario. None of which I can know until I weigh it. The ice has pretty much melted here so maybe soon.
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dsrace
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01/06/23 09:21am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
Well, if the towing situation goes from whatever you said, just fine, to horrible with the buggy loaded in forwards, the only way to even guesstimate what the next move is, is to know the weights.
That's alot coming from me, never weighed a trailer or trailer tongue in my life and towed hundreds of different trailers, maybe 1000.
You need to experiment a bit as well before jumping into a potential solution, IMO.
But if the tongue is so light that it won't pull straight with the buggy in forwards, then I doubt the GN convo will be the answer. It will add some weight, but by stretching the tongue out, you'll lose a smidge of the original weight and won't see all of the 350lb device weight, so mathematically, I'd say maybe it will add 250-300lbs max to the pin.
With your axle placement and heavy tail wagging the dog, you may need to ballast the front or move the axles.
Curiously, the pic like I said looks like the axles are a bit fwd of a typical bp hauler, but I did a quick scale comparison of your pic and my old trailer on blubeam and your axles are about the same spot from Tounge to tail.
However that really doesn't matter. You've already talked about heavy stuff aft of the axles. I really think it's going to take some trailer mods or significant ballast up front.
Yes, I definitely need to weigh it empty and loaded before any changes. Technically I could weigh the truck then truck camper combo empty and I would have the be line for tw from that. I do plan on doing so once the weather gets better. I am going to buy a weigh safe hitch so I can weigh the tongue at home. Will be a lot easier to check different changes by different configurations. I have towed trailers and camper for over 20 years and never struggled with one like this. There is a fair possibility that i do not he 1200 lbs tw as I was told. It might only be 1000 and would explain towing well empty.
Yes, it pulls pretty good empty. Its only when loaded with a diagonal wind to dead side wind that it gets real squirrly behind my f350 drw. The duals add a lot of stability so that unto itself makes it very difficult to say by feel how far off it truly is.
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dsrace
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01/06/23 09:17am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
It sure sounds like you are light on tongue weight now. As you said a fifth wheel/goose neck should have 25% of the weight on the pin. If you are light now, how will you ever have the weight you need with the conversion? A fiver with too light pin weight is just as bad as a bumper pull.
correct
all that is based on not having weighed it personally and simply going off the manufacturer's word. currently at 16%..... supposedly.
if i move the spares to the nose along with the tool box i just added to the nose, that will possible add 300 lbs to the tongue. which would set me at 21% ( empty, rather then 16% current) but at what point is a bumper hitch tongue heavy w/o a load. my hitch will handle it but will others? i wont keep it forever so i have to be mindful about mods. the issue is when loaded, specifically loaded with my sand rail pulled in rather then backed in. that is when it comes up tongue light and its not fun. i have not tried with it backed in. that is more difficult to do then one would think. my rear track width is 10" wider then the front and would require scab wheels to get it narrower. it would also need to be winched in as it would be a tight fit side to side! :) definatley doable but i would pre fer to avoid it if possible. it would appear that will be what i need to try next though as it might be the simpler rt.
so the GN conversion would all but remove sway, a definate positive there, but i also wonder if it's 350lb dead weight adds to tongue weight? i would think so because if it was bolted to it , detached from the truck, it should still register as tongue weight? i have never used one so i asked. they are bolt on and can be trasferred so thats a plus . moving axles would be an option but if i ever move on to another toyhauler then moving the axles would difficult to undo where the GN would not.
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dsrace
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01/04/23 03:32pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
The lack of quotes is confusing, but anyway….
You’ll gain most of the contraption weight on the pin weight and a bit less of the actual trailer weight, so won’t gain a whole lot of pin weight.
Whoever said too much tongue weight can cause sway as well is partially kinda right. But generally it’s only when the tow vehicle is quite under sized and under sprung.
Sure would be nice to be able to demo one. That’s a lot of coin for something that may help you.
I’d move the axles back for way less money ifn I “had” to correct the problem and could t do it by shuffling gear around.
the lack of quotations was my fault. i cut it down so it wasn't as large of a response and that isn't easy to do on a cell phone or at least for myself it isn't.
that is exactly what i have been wondering........where will the weight of the gn be or will it even add weight to the tongue. it has to add some and it would appear that the majority of the weight would be behind the tail gate, so i would assume it would be on the tongue. no matter what, if the trailer is detached from the truck, that 350 lbs will show up on a scale as tongue weight. so is it a true addition to tongue weight when considering a load behind the axles acting against it? i truly have no idea.
i agree, i wish i could demo it but thats not an around the block demo, i would need a couple hundred miles , loaded with my sand rail to know for sure.
read about tongue heavy and had a friend warn me about it years ago.
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dsrace
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01/04/23 03:06pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
so based on your description, you are grossly under weight on the hitch.
More weight on the hitch is almost always good so long as you don't overload the truck weight limits.
I'm not sure what this contraption will do. How much does it weigh and where is it's center of gravity? Moving the hitch further forward will reduce hitch weight but the weight of the contraption might counter that. You are still likely going to be light on the hitch.
Definitely get it weighed before putting a Band-Aid on that may or may not do anything.
According to their site it weighs 350 lbs. Just Looking at it, i would say most of that will be over tongue or atleast behind the tailgate.
The hitch on my truck is rated for 2200 lbs of tongue weight. Its an aftermarket hitch because fords was only rated for 1000 lbs tw.
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dsrace
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01/03/23 12:00pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
My first blush is that you were tongue light when loaded and you confirmed it. And the pic sure looks like the axles could should move back a little. Especially when describing the payload.
Looks like they didn’t design the axle placement right if you gave them the right loading info.
Not sure the gn conversion will help if you don’t have enough tongue weight in the first place.
Upside is looks like moving axles would be real easy on that rig.
Just spitballing but you may be able to just weld new spring mounts on and extend the brake wires. Bing bang easy. Don’t even bother cutting the old ones off unless they interfere.
But if backing the rail in and pulling a little more weight up front works that seems even easier.
They were informed of the length, width, height as well as the weight of the sand rail. also that 60% of that 2k lbs is on the back half. I specifically requested 20% tw. According to there #'s, I received 16% tw ...... 20% tw def would've been better, but it is what it is now. i know they cannot hit that target dead on and prob didn't try too hard, as they prob knew they couldn't. I really wonder if a 32' oal would've offered a little better balance.
I am not opposed to moving axles and its wide open underneath. I didn't want the skirting below the wall. I know it looks better but one blow out and it could be junk. I also plan on some small tool boxs mounted in those areas.....down the road.
I don't want to winch it in backwards if possible..... but I keep coming back to that fact. I guess I will have to try it and see but I will be weighing everything on the cat scale first. I will also have to figure out how to drop the rear fresh water tank to add 2 more tie downs. The current tie down configuration was layed out in the floor specifically for the rail being pulled In.
I was just curious if anyone had tried one and what changes it made. I know dead weight will add to but not as much as one would hope. Curious how much etc etc.
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dsrace
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01/03/23 07:03am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
I wouldn't trust the manufacturer numbers for a start. Go to the CAT scale fully loaded as if you are going on a trip.
2klb with a center of gravity 6-10ft behind the axles could easily remove 500-800lb off the hitch. If we assume the 1200lb is correct, that leaves the hitch weight at somewhere around 400-700lb on a trailer that is likely pushing 10k lb fully loaded. That would be 4-7% hitch weight...no wonder it gets squirly.
i agree and i do need to go weigh it once the weather gets better. we have more snow and ice forecasted for today. my guestimate was 10k to 10,500 lbs loaded.
i'm betting the tongue weight was closer to 600 lbs as that would explain why moving the two spare tires off the tail to the nose and adding apprx 100 lbs of tools made such a major difference. still wasn't enough but 85% better using my drw. i do not travel with any liquids in my tanks. considered adding 25 gals to the black tank as that is the farthest forward one.
for that trip home, i moved all the additional gear i could to the front end to help even more including the soda and bottled water. i thought that would help for the trip home. we got 100 miles and i had to stop as it didn't help, actually felt like it was worse and that made no sense what so every! the front of the camper was now 1.5" higher then it was on the way down. you could see it and i measured it at the truck stop. adjusted the wdh, did not drop the tongue any. went another 200 miles with 95% of that drive in a tail wind. handled fine with a tail wind. i could not figure out how adding all the weight to the front was making the tongue sit higher then it did on the trip down.
finally got home, exhausted, 7hr drive turned into an 8 and it was starting to rain as we pulled up. scrambling to get as much unloaded as we could when my wife tells me the roof i leaking in the bedroom and soaking the bed. the only thing one can do in that instance is just laugh. i pulled it into the building and started cleaning up the leak and setting fans up. we were hooked up to city water for that 3 day trip. i have 100 gals fresh water, 50 gal gray, 50 gal black. 2- 50 gal fresh tanks, one mounted between the axles and the majority of the 2nd one sits in front of the first axle. for some unknown reason, as i walked past the tank monitor panel, i checked the tank levels. i had emptied the black and gray before we left the park but still needed to flush them. when i pushed the fresh water button it read full. i thought great, sensors are out along with the roof leak! i walked out and opened the tank drain valve ( 1.5" od pvc pipe) and like an idiot, i was standing right in front of it expecting it to be empty. i'm sure you can guess what happened next! discharges out the side. the check valve in the water pump had been filling up the fresh water tank over the last 3 days. that 100 gals of water dropped the back end 1.5".
https://i.postimg.cc/MMG3KFnp/freshwaterdischarge.jpg
i am just trying to get my ducks in a row before the next dune trip. i know that the bpconversion might be a expensive bandaid but it will def control sway far better. i know that w/o moving the axles back that the weight of rail is still hanging that far back. i believe that one can be tongue heavy on a bumper hitch and experience sway from that. i think the bpconversion would add leverage but really wondering if that 6' extension forward of the axles will add any tongue weight. i know it's not the same as moving the wheels back but i wonder if it amplifies tongue weight to some small extent?? if it did then permanently moving the spare tire carrier forward would be no issue.
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dsrace
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01/02/23 08:25am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
i did buy a custom built trailer and it is only 30' oal. i thought for sure that was short enough on the bumper that it would tow close to as nice as the fiver we previously had run for 10 years. i guess i was spoiled with the fiver! empty it tows great but wind has grabbed it a couple times and i felt that behind my drw. i kept the drw as the f350 diesel is paid for and trucks are crazy high imo.
Have you taken it to the scales to see what your weights are?
If empty it pulls great and loaded it's squirrely, it may be that you are too light on the tongue when loaded.
A properly set up bumper pull will tow just fine. Not as good as a 5er but shouldn't be an issue.
How bad was the cross wind? I've had the wind grab us both with 5er and bumper pull. If it's strong enough, I've seen semis blown around.
you make a very good point and i have not weighed it. a series of events in 2022 kept me from using it more then once and that was a 9 hr drive, empty, to mt rushmore and back.
dune sport said they weighed it, stated it weighed 7195 lbs / 1195 lbs tongue, empty. i call that 7200/1200 lbs. i want to believe them but i do need to know for sure and i need to know loaded as well. there is a cat scale/truck stop, 25 miles from me as well. thinking about a weigh safe hitch to see the different tongue weights loaded differently once i weigh it loaded at the cat scale.
i pulled our then , 2011 wolf pack 295 34' fiver for 10 years. high winds would grab it but for the most part, never horrible. had a couple experiences between rawlings and rock springs wyoming that were attention getters....swirling wind. when i say high winds, i am referring to 30 to 40 mph gusting winds. a good trip is 15 to 20 mph winds around here, through kansas, wyoming, nebraska and now got to experience 30/35 mph gusting winds through part of south dakota. alot of it is the times of the year i can get away. the 9hr trip to mt rushmore, empty, wasn't bad at all. the worst of the tow in those gusting winds was through the hills. it got concerning but never out of control. picture below is at the camp ground by mt rushmore sd and other is at the sand dunes in oklahoma. in the pic of it at the heatland rv park in sd, that is w/o asssist from the anderson wdh anti sway system.
so, i have only made one trip loaded with the sand rail ( oct '21 ) as i have missed all dune trips for 2022. 1 trip empty to mt rushmore. between a massive hail storm ( $42k in damages to just our house), tree removal/clean up and finishing the build on this toyhauler ( luckily it was in the building ).
the only trip i've made loaded was in 25/35 mph gusting winds for 5 out of a 7 hr drive. yes i know those are higher winds and they will effect a bumper hitch more so then a fiver/GN and that is why i am looking at the bpconversion. during that 7hr dune trip drive, i had to stop 4 different times to adjust the anderson wdh. i finally set it too tight and that def makes it worse. north of salina kansas, i got hit, diagonally, twice, and i could read the side of the toyhauler in my mirror. i hit the the trailer brake to straighten it out as i let off until i got to an exit. that is when i started shifting weight to the nose. been many years since i felt wind throw a trailer and a drw around like that! moved the spare tires from the rear to the front and tool boxs as i listed above in my previous reply. that made an 85% change for the better and i continued. definitely tongue light with the sand rail pulled in. my fear is that shifting that weight permanently might make it tongue heavy empty??
its 2k lbs ( specifically 1960 lb wet ) and 60% of that is in the rear w/o occupants. backing it in is doable with the winch, but not a fun time. have to swap rear tires to scab wheels ( leaving 2.5" on each side when loaded) and winch it in. pulled in, my front wheels are parked directly on top of the first axle.
https://i.postimg.cc/zLT81JPN/camp-ground-pic.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/xNCwqYgc/thumbnail-IMG-20220522-085012.jpg
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dsrace
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01/01/23 08:15am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
No experience with it but it looks like a very interesting product. Shouldn't void the warranty as they aren't modifying the trailer. I would think it would be really light on tongue weight compared to a trailer actually built to be a GN or FW trailer. But, it would still probably have more (and better placed) tongue weight than the trailer did originally.
The area above the hitch would possibly be built with a storage platform for generator, firewood, etc.
you mention tongue weight, this is specifically what i am trying to wrap my head around. this hitch weighs 300 and some lbs but that won't specifically be added to the tongue. some of it might but i imagine most of it will be in the bed of the truck. my f350 drw wont mind that. or am i thinking of that backwards??
my trailer empty has 16% tongue and if i haul my 2k lb sand rail, ( mid engine, 60% of that is in the rear with out occupants) it is very tongue light. as in it actually walked my drw to the point i had to throw the brake controller to straightened it out, twice. i then pulled over and began shifting weight. that was a sudden diaginal gust of wind and i had an anderson wdh system. the wdh is of no use as this trailer still doesn't squat my truck to that point, empty or loaded. i pulled the two spare tires off the rear and put one under the bed/cargo area and one in the back of the truck. moved 2 tool box's out of the bed of the truck to beside the bed in the nose of the camper. apprx 100 lbs for the 2 tool box's and that instantly made an 85% diff.
a true fiver or GN would be closer to 20 to 25% pin. i have two spare (235-80x16 , 14 ply on steel rims, feels like 65 lbs ish) mounted underneath by the rear ramp gate. they have a steel H frame welded ( imo tacked ) to the I beams. https://youtu.be/vn9t9gT44cw .... https://youtu.be/HKIK6FRUR50 .....https://youtu.be/Mqo3TrNlXV4 i guestimate 150 lbs for the whole assembly. if i were to add this bpconverison i would move that entire assy from the tail end to right against the end of the a frame , under the chassis. there is an open spot identical in size as the spot in the rear is. that would relieve 150lbs off the rear and add 150 lbs to the nose. not sure if that would equate to a 250 - 300lb tongue weight increase over all or not? i also added a 50 lb steel tool box to the nose where the batteries would go. put my hoses and what not in it. could make it 20% ?? i think the GN would def add leverage and as well as control as far as sway control goes. that is my opinion, and that's what i am really wondering.
i designed the floor plan to pull my sand rail in, rather then backing it in. the front track width is 80" wide and cargo width for the front is 88" on the floor. the rear is 90" with paddle tires and 84" with scab wheels. i really don't want to swap wheels if i don't have to as that was part of the reason for the custom build.
i have considered simply moving the spare tire assy forward but i know there is a point where one could be to tongue heavy or is that incorrect? we do use it as a camper a few times a years and really don't want to move tires for different trips if at all possible. i have 7k lb ccc and only put 3500 lbs in it so that isn't an issue. the tongue appears to be built out of a more appropriate wall thickness then some i have seen. still don't want to overload it though.
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dsrace
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01/01/23 06:58am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: bpconversion goose neck conversion
I would have suggested just selling and buying another 5ver as toyhaulers of any flavor are dime a dozen, but I see you bought a new custom unit so probably attached to it.
Idk seems like it would work. But seems like something I wouldn’t personally spend $5 on.
Although I don’t even use a wdh with our similar size weight toyhauler. Hook and go baby!
i did buy a custom built trailer and it is only 30' oal. i thought for sure that was short enough on the bumper that it would tow close to as nice as the fiver we previously had run for 10 years. i guess i was spoiled with the fiver! empty it tows great but wind has grabbed it a couple times and i felt that behind my drw. i kept the drw as the f350 diesel is paid for and trucks are crazy high imo.
with my sand rail pulled in my toyhauler is tongue light and really bad. had to pull 130 lbs of spare tires off the rear and put them on the front during the first trip. that was 85% better immediately. it will be a rear pain to back my sand rail in but that seems to be the best solution at this point. the hitch weighs some 300 lbs ( would have to re read to know for sure) but i don't think that would tech be tongue, or maybe some would be? i like the fact that it bolts on and is transferable. very very few fivers have 14' of true cargo area and i say that as my sand rails front track width is 80" wide and rear is 90". far more bumper hitch floor plans to choose from......if i sold the custom one.
i don't care what it looks like either. our dune trips to idaho are a 16hr drive one way. we cross the entire state of wyoming and a fair portion of idaho..... no shortage of wind in either state. i don't think this would apply any more load or even the same amount of load as a wdh system, but i just don't know enough about it.
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dsrace
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01/01/23 06:43am |
Toy Haulers
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bpconversion goose neck conversion
anyone have any experience with https://www.bpconversions.com/
they are the same price as a hensly or pro pride and i already have a gooseneck ball in the bed. this dune sport is 12'6" tall so it catch's a fair amount of wind and can still move my drw side to side. it's not horrible but enough that my wife doesn't want to take over for a bit as she would with the wolf pack 295 fiver.
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dsrace
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12/31/22 07:30am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: purchased a custom dune sport toyhauler
good point
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dsrace
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12/31/22 07:29am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: purchased a custom dune sport toyhauler
anyone have any experience with https://www.bpconversions.com/
they are the same price as a hensly or pro pride and i already have a gooseneck ball in the bed. this dunes sport is 12'6" tall so it catch's a lot of wind and can still move my drw side to side. it's not horrible but enough that my wife doesn't want to take over for a bit as she would with the wolf pack 295 fiver.
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dsrace
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12/31/22 05:40am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Blow outs and tires
......
the info is not easy to find but if one simply asks themselves..... why do tire manufacturers advertise more fuel efficient tread and/or tire compound in trailer trailer tires? what are there explanations? .
"Our most fuel-efficient trailer tires
Reduced rolling resistance and increased fuel economy.
Discover our tires designed for fuel savings, durability, and exceptional traction for driver confidence."
borrowed that directly from michelan's trailer tire web site.
most of the info you will find are from fleet companies. 3% reduction is a lot with an over the road truck. in a pick up, 3% isnt much of anything. wind is a bigger factor but every little bit still helps so why not?
There are 3 things that affect tire rolling resistance: The amount of deflection (meaning mostly inflation pressure), the amount of material (mostly tread rubber), and the material properties of the material (again, mostly the properties of the tread rubber)
You're quoting Michelin's truck tires. They don't make RV trailer tires, so be careful there.
So applying those three things, my best guess is that they don't have as much rubber in their trailer tires, and the tread compound is especially formulated for low rolling resistance.
Could that be applied to other tires? Of course, but there is a tradeoff.
There is a technological triangle for tread rubber compounds involving treadwear, traction (especially wet traction), and rolling resistance. Change one and you affect one of both of the others.
Yes, there can be differences in tread rubber compounds that improve RR without affecting that 3 way relationship, but those are small compared to the big triangle.
i did not know that Michelin didnt sell st tires for campers, thanks for the letting me know. that was just the first link that popped to up to illustrate there are some differences and why i referenced those were fleet.
my only point was that i felt the difference in rolling resistance between 28" tall tires to 33" tall. i read the article stating basically what you stated and i am sure it is true. still, a larger od tire made a difference in my case. they were both 10 ply and on the same trailer. now they do offer 12 ply st tires and maybe they higher psi in those would make some difference?, i truly have no idea.
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dsrace
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12/31/22 05:28am |
Toy Haulers
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