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Good bye but with a forwarding address

My time on this forum has come and gone. It's been a good ride since I joined in 2003. Early on there were so many, "characters" who kept a lively and wide ranging discussion going. I was asked by some forum members to leave a forwarding address if I ever left, to give them some access to my future trip reports. Understanding that there is not a good site for XTC-er's to haunt, here is where i've wound up, and where any future T.R.'s will be posted: https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/forums/hard-side-truck-campers.119/ and, https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/forums/pop-up-truck-campers.75/ and very occasionally: http://www.truckcamperadventure.com/ The XPO TC site was almost dead a few years ago, but is enjoying a resurgence of interesting posts. Thanks for all the good years. regards, as always, jefe http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN1116_1.jpg
jefe 4x4 03/28/19 10:27am Truck Campers
RE: TC and real off-roading

Whaz, I think we've expended enough energy on this site to counterbalance the trolling mode going on here. Maybe once again it's time. jefe
jefe 4x4 01/25/19 03:06pm Truck Campers
RE: TC and real off-roading

"Who has taken a full-height TC down some nasty roads, or Jeep roads where the truck leans and is at the limits of tipping the camper off or something of the sort?" According to your join date you've been on here as long as I have. In my time i've "taken a full-height TC down some nasty roads" as you call them. The real question is, "how did i get there"; what was the narrow path; and what preparation and decisions were made along the way? My experience was with 13, 4WD's from grocery getters to extreme rock crawler, and covering about 1.4 million miles. Here are rigs 1, 2, and 3: still 10 more to come. http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN1220_zpsad8b0e4f.jpg http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN1210_zps3046e879.jpg http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN1211_zpsa551b617.jpg The best, most complete way to come to the XTC (extreme truck camper) school is to have been a hard core, rock crawling, gnarly path, four wheel driver at one time as excellent preparation. You can get there by other means, but when you have experience welding up new driveshafts on the trail, patching broken frames; and re attaching leaf spring hangers, replacing leaf springs on the trail, you definitely obtain much of the education you need. I have stories. One time out with my home jeeper group, The (4) Beater Boys, we were in some big rocks at the Hammers, when one of the two built CJ-8's' starter gave up right in the middle of a "V" shaped rock outcropping and with the rocker panels firmly ensconced in V stone. It was impossible to winch him up and out of the obstacle. No manner of 60 inch high lifts; 2 ton come alongs; 12 ton hydraulic jacks made much difference. Those were in the mix, but he needed to get out on his own power. My CJ-8's battery had given up a few hours before so I was not wanting to turn off my engine off for any reason. The starter less CJ-8 needed MY starter to get off the obstacle. So,, what to do? I pushed my idle up a few pops and we took my starter off the rig while it was running, quickly attaching it to the other CJ-8. Everyone had full Detroit or ARB locking diffs on both ends. The final drive in low/low and the 2 that had 2 transfer cases: low/low/low were: mine @ 130:1; 142:1; 274:1; and the winner: 335:1 with 2 t. cases. Everyone had a winch and had slow rolled their rigs from 6-19 times, over time. It was a long day, and by default was full of experiences that tested and added to your ability to keep going. You face the same problems, to a lesser degree, when you attempt to off-road a 10K pound, 2650 pound loaded camper, 20 foot long,10 foot high, 86 inch wide rig where it barely fits, and you are living on the edge of sanity, which is now a lot closer than it was with a small 4bye. This final point is movable as to your experience. As far as tipping? All of the heavy stuff in my rig is as low as we can make it. Plus the 1000 pound Cummins, 360 pound transmission, 225 pound winch and bumper with heavy axles keep us upright, kind of like the low weight in a sailboat. So that big, high box full of air, which looks as if you are going to capsize on a 15 degree angle is far from the tipping over stage: http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSC_0041_zpsc0269efe.jpg http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN0767_zpsflrs7wpd.jpg My brother John (JR on the Pirate Page) and I revel in getting as close the edge as we can. It's kind of a wierd high; a game. So the preparation for XTC-ing, as I call it, began a long time ago with a lot of trial and error with builds and technique. I purchased the 1998 Lance in 2001 having been used 3 times for $6500. The whole transaction took place in one afternoon-cash. Serendipitously, it was the lightest (1842 pounds, wet), least wide (86 inches), least tall (with a 6 foot 4 inch ceiling), full featured, wood framed, short bed, hard side camper that Lance produced. The guy I bought it from used it on his Dodge 1500 with air bags with no complaints. I had just bought the short bed, extended cab 4X4 Dodge 2500 to flat tow my 4bye junk to the trailhead, so the Lance was a shoe in. As time passed we started to go down the, "roads of no return" finding ways to conquer the terra not-so-firma, taking a new look at the suspension, ride height, traction devices, and tie down system for the camper itself. Ride height without the Lance on the back: http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN0723_zpsnmys3key.jpg This is a narrow band of goodness. Too tall and it's too tall. Not enough ground clearance; approach angle, break over angle, or departure angle and it's not enough. It's always a trade off. You need enough; but not too much. You job is to find the line, the cross hairs of the best solution. This is usually with experience. To my bullet proof drive train I added a 3 inch lift; super single steel rear wheels and 35 inch tires; upgrading to Tru Trac, torque biasing, all gear driven limited slips (also called Thorsen diffs), front and rear to go with my new homemade "super 60" front diff using mostly Dana 70 parts with Dana 70 locking hubs. After some bad experience combining a TC with air bags, I added 2 leaves to my existing 1 thicker leaf in my upper overload pack that came with the camper package from the factory at the time. This not being enough, I added 2 leaves to the main pack giving me 8 leaves in the rear spring packs. This has worked out well, but would have never come to pass without my doing a dozen springs over axle upgrades to various jeeps in the past. You develop a feel for how many and what rate the springs need to be and are all purpose built. I have a short bed truck, which was expedient when I worked downtown L.A. at the Music Center and needed something with a short w.b. to corkscrew down into the subterranean parking structure. Little did I know that a short bed truck is ideal for snaking around trails made by short, narrow jeeps. As to the wood frame camper: there are plusses and minuses. Wood does not 'sweat' or transmit cold like aluminum. Wood is not as strong nor lasting as is aluminum. However, I've got what I've got and this may be my one and only truck camper. Maybe. The only time you need to worry about pulling your camper apart is when you twist up the axles on undulating surfaces. This transmits a twisting torque to the frame of the truck and in extreme cases will actually deform and bend your truck bed. IF....the tie downs are too tight, the TC will follow this twisting and will eventually pull your camper apart. Older Fords are the worst candidates for twisting as a lot of twisting is built in at the factory. I also use Lance centering brackets which keep the tie downs from a too tight position when the box shifts from side to side or rearward. These keep the box in check at the bottom. Many homemade centering brackets made by folks on this site are much better that the factory Lance's i have. Another secret is to off-road with no jacks: narrower; loose 75 pounds; nothing to drag over rocky terrain: better visibility with side mirrors. I never take the jacks anyway and leave them at home. I've developed a technique of keeping a close eye on the undulation and tightening or loosening the tension on the tie downs as needed, PRN. Has my camper been pulled apart with all this crazy business? Not yet, and shows no signs. I've had to replace some dry rot sticks on the TC; replaced the converter with the latest and greatest; keep the caulking current; and add a lot of insulation; added 200watts of solar and this was basically upkeep. This year, the plunger attached to the starting scratcher for the 3-way fridge stopped coming back up, so my RV guru had a look at it and said the fridge needs to be taken out to replace the parts. That's it! I can still light the fridge from the outside by removing the vent, so that's the way we will make it work until it's salvage. All the rest of the appliances work fine. For the past decade, the camper has lived on the truck, so it is well ensconced like an old shoe. I've made a lot of mis calculations with 4WD's in the past and am always happy to change course and make it work. My time with the TC is waning so it's time for some of you younger off roaders to take on the XTC mantle. jefe
jefe 4x4 01/23/19 02:17pm Truck Campers
RE: Frame mount or Bed mount

I'm with AnEv. If you are even remotely thinking of taking the rig off road or getting your axles twisted up at all, then the tried and true Happy Jack tie downs are good enough. These are old tech but very well designed with real world calcs. I've had no trouble with them over some noxious real estate. However, I do keep adjusting them tighter or looser, depending on how much the truck frame is flexing. Here are the features I see: *Nothing hanging down to be bent or ripped off by a passing rock. *The full sheet of the front of the bed acts as a shear plate. *Front tie downs are spring loaded to keep from pulling your TC apart. *Front tie downs are at an angle to keep your TC from moving rearward, or sliding out the back on steep upgrades. *Rear tie downs go to the bumper with buttons. *Rear tie downs at an angle to keep the TC in position. *Rear tie downs have no spring load. Mfgr. calculated the rear bumper will bend enough to reduce the need for springs. I'm still enjoying the simple pair of 3/4 inch open end wrenches style of adjustment and keep the pair at hand for a quick readjustment. I really don't see a better mouse trap out there. More expensive ones out there? Yes. Sexier ones out there? Yes. jefe
jefe 4x4 01/21/19 03:50pm Truck Campers
RE: Tripping ol man winter

Cool trip, Whaz. You make even the starkest, coldest environment look inviting. How'd he do that? Oh....Photo Shop with a lot of talent and application. regards, as always, jefe
jefe 4x4 01/19/19 06:10pm Truck Campers
RE: TC Centering Guides

It's never easy, no matter what appliance you use. I've had 15 years of good luck with my Lance Centering Guides. These keep the box centered once you 'drop' it in (not slide in) position. I have about 1/2 inch of clearance space on each side between the guides and the sides of the TC. The box stays put even when you are on a sharp angle. http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN1757.jpg http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN1756.jpg http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN1758.jpg But these are kind of old school now. Search back about 8-10 years in the archive to see a wad of well crafted, homemade guides that do the trick even better the the Lance guides. Since I had the camper off, I cornered the lower edge with 2 inch aluminum angle screwed to the floor and the joint textured with spray rubber. http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN1463_zps9b030160.jpg jefe
jefe 4x4 01/17/19 10:53pm Truck Campers
RE: TR/3 : Threading the Needles (Canyonlands) part way

I would like to add a few items that The Whaz; Alex, Cal, and jefe; the four-down XTC-ers have in common in regards to vehicle prep. 1. All single rear wheel; all pre-smog (no soot bag, urea canister or D.E.F. tank) turbo diesel Chevy's, Ford, or Dodge RAM that were not in the, "do not buy" era. The Whaz and jefe have much sturdier aftermarket wheels. Both found the stock wheels to be insufficient. 2. 2 with the lightest, least tall, least wide, full featured Lance hard side TC's to traverse those pesky narrow trails. 3. 2 with OUTFITTER! pop up campers on 8 foot beds for a lower profile and better obstacle clearance. 4. 2 with winches: Alex's 17.8K pounder, and my 15K pound Warn. 5. All with a variety of traction devices to help when you get the axles all twisted up; 3 of them with traction aids, front and rear. The only truck with an open front diff belongs to Alex. 6. 2 with a small lift: Whaz's 6 inch and jefe's 3 inch suspension lift. 7. All with upper overload springs and/or Stable Loads or equivalent. 8. All have a lot of experience in the rough, half of the group coming from the hard core jeeping tradition, and the other two ready to push the envelope of what and where you can go with a well prepped truck camper. These TC-ers have walked the walk and have improved their rigs over time. jefe
jefe 4x4 01/16/19 06:48pm Truck Campers
RE: TR/3 : Threading the Needles (Canyonlands) part way

I'm leaving my comments on Cal's wonderful T.R. because he is near the end of his TC career and will be selling his junk. I personally will miss his ascerbic humor and engineer like precision. Now onto the latest plans. It's good to have plans. They keep you hoping for a fine trip. After more minutes of perusal, and studying my Utah Gazetteer, here is a further refinement and revised prospective route near Canyonlands N.P. which includes a ruins tour in Beef Basin (el. 7K feet). Not many use this route to get to Canyonlands. The entry is now highway 191 south past Moab; turn right (west) on state route 211 toward the N.P. entrance. After about 16 miles, turn left on Bridger Jack Rd, (F.R. 088) following north Cottonwood Creek, continuing past Cathedral Butte about 25 miles; turn right on F.R.093, a dirt two track; turning into Beef Basin Rd. In 2 miles turn left onto an unnamed 2-track, the shortcut to the cliff dwellings and ruins area which we can spend days exploring. Depart Beef Basin to the north through Ruin Park trail about 4-5 miles and enter Bobby's Hole, a steep, sandy, rough, rocky, narrow, bad traction, downgrade off the 7000 foot mesa we've been on. After picking up all the pieces, motor north. After about 6 miles enter the Needles area of C.N.P. eventually entering Devils Lane, Silver stairs, and side trips to Butler Cyn. and Confluence Overlook. We then take the one way 'out' route over Elephant Hill that has no rock overhang or narrow slot (nominal el. 5K feet). The 'out' route on Elephant Hill avoids the squeeze and the 'overhang' that could be problematic for a rig that's 10 feet 4 inches tall. At 86 inches wide, it's still narrower than the honey dipper truck that services the porta potties in the park past Elephant Hill. I thought about doing Dark Canyon Overlook, but because of the possibility of deep snow; the elevation of over 8K feet is a no go for the 2nd week of April. That's the plan, so far. Alex and jefe on the White Rim Trail 2010: clearance rock in the foreground. http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN1635.jpg jefe
jefe 4x4 01/12/19 02:27pm Truck Campers
RE: TR/3 : Threading the Needles (Canyonlands) part way

tiki, The time and exposure of the fearsome foursome on RV net is slowly diminishing. Whazoo, Cal, Alex, and jefe, all hard core TC-er's, are now the old men of XTC, (well, Alex is the 'kid' of the bunch) and I don't see anyone ready to take their place. They have all resisted the natural call of RV'er's to move up to more spacious and comfortable rolling domiciles, DRW's, a higher GVW, more space for cold ones, so they are as a group a fading anachronism. And, most importantly, who, who, is going to post a tinky little T.R. that stands up by comparison to the monumental monoliths of the trip reports of the Great Whazoo? Who? That's the way I see it. jefe
jefe 4x4 01/12/19 01:58pm Truck Campers
RE: Structual Repair with metal components

When I had a leak under the propane compartment door that dry rotted the wood framing underneath, I asked my RV guru dude the same question. The former owner turned the tie downs too tigh pulling down the bottom frame. My guru discouraged use of multi materials and simply peeled back the sheathing, and cut out the offending wooden framing and (industrial) STAPLED the 1x2's back together, just the way the factory made it. As fasteners, screws, NBW's, and glue do not work and will not last. I've gotten another decade out of his repair. http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCF6932.jpg http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCF6936.jpg http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCF6958.jpg jefe
jefe 4x4 01/10/19 10:43pm Truck Campers
RE: Camper Selection Assistance Needed

Bajaman, The best thing you have going is a 2WD, F350, upper overloads, and a V-10 gasser. Why so? The very lightest combination of parts. Check the maximum gross vehicle weight. It will be higher than any big, 4WD Honkin' diesel out there. That being said, you are limited by the SRW arrangement, which can be dealt with by installing either much higher rated super single wheels with very high rated tires. This is especially true if you plan to go to Baja, as your moniker suggests. You can air down 16, 17, and 18 inch tires for use on the sands of Baja, which is impossible with 19.5 inch tires/wheels. There are tires for 16's and 18's that are now in the 4000 pound weight range. 17's are deficient in carrying capacity, as a group. Also, short bed campers are much harder to find that aren't beat up like mine. The other red flag is the, "3 quarts in a 2 quart jar" syndrome. Too many full size people in the space of a box made for 2 or stretching it for a short time, 3 adults. The main thing to keep your eye on is availability. Cast your net wide for a used SB camper. Currently the Lance 825 is the same size but with more modern conveniences and larger tanks. We've had our Lance Lite 165-s SB camper for 18 years and it still serves us well. At only 86 inches wide, it's the lightest, least tall, least wide camper with everything except a microwave, oven, or A/C. It does have a NS Queen bed. wet bath. 2 burner stove. heater. fridge. Solar power. LED lighting. But, all the weight is down low; small tanks; 1842 pounds wet (that means fresh water and propane full up) so works well on our prepared off road Dodge RAM 2500 4WD diesel pickup. At full load, we're right around 10,500 pounds. Click to run short vid. http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/th_DSCN0795_zpsr4h9afr1.mp4 I cannot get the vid to run, so lets try this: driving on the beach in OR: http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN0637_zpshsyownpf.jpg The last thing, if you really are a Baja aficionado, is the lack of 4WD. This will exclude a lot of sand running on or near the beach, say of Bahia San Quentin. jefe
jefe 4x4 01/10/19 10:16pm Truck Campers
RE: Trip report: The TC fools (The Bros) do Anza

Robert, We're going to be there in early-ish spring, so flash floods are not much of a threat. jefe
jefe 4x4 01/09/19 11:56pm Truck Campers
RE: TR/3 : Threading the Needles (Canyonlands) part way

Well, 7 months and my new titanium shoulder have passed in review since Cal's tome was unveiled. So...Bro John and Krys, plus Jeanie and I are going to try a similar spring route through Canyonlands between April 8 and 18. We 'think' we have a route that an 86 inch wide camper will fit through (with bed tie downs sans camper jacks). The trick is to make it south to north through the Needles district as the trail splits toward Elephant Hill and the 'out' trail doesn't have the hangover or the squeeze that the 'in' trail has (Devil's Pocket). I'm not worried about rocks on the trail or washouts, but rock overhangs at narrow spots can stop the train cold. Some highlights (God willing) will include Beef Basin, Bobby's Hole, Devils Kitchen, Horse Hoof camp; plus a run through the Needles themselves and various overlooks. With the partial Gov't shutdown, and after visiting the Canyonlands N.P website, it looks like the trails are open but no one is collecting money or dumping the trash. Maybe it will be over by then. We came down Elephant Hill in 1971. The 3-yr. old kid in the center is turning 50 next month. He may even go along on this trip in his own Jeep/RTT. http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN1226_zpsf5f40fec.jpg
jefe 4x4 01/09/19 10:15pm Truck Campers
RE: Finally a Decision...

kowboy, Don't worry, there are no final decisions until your final day. Leave room for fine tuning. jefe
jefe 4x4 01/08/19 09:21pm Truck Campers
RE: Trip report: The TC fools (The Bros) do Anza

Yep, that's our final campsite last March. It looks a lot greener in your pix. If you want to be alone, this is a good hideaway in Anza. Bro John and I with our ladies are putting another sojourn together; this time 12 days' worth in and around Canyonlands N.P. in Utah. Some of the highlights will be Elephant Hill, The squeeze (missing the overhang), Beef Basin, Devil's Kitchen, Horse Hoof Camp, Lockhart Basin and Hurrah Pass. Some of this is hard core. If we can get a permit, The White Rim Trail is also on the docket. You Tube has some interesting vids of pickups testing their junk here.
jefe 4x4 01/07/19 09:50pm Truck Campers
RE: Cold Weather Camping

Well, if Rick 4x4x4 replied to this well written article, then I must also. Mike, this is a fine piece re: cold weather camping. After retrofitting our ancient ill-insulated, one-season, wood framed Lance with insulation into and on every place possible, I still learned a lot from your piece about traveling and living in cold storage. I never thought about the stove top vent insulation or a thick insulating pad under our carpeting. I used 2 inch thick, foil covered, both sides, R-11, closed cell foam blocks cut to size and glued to inner walls and right over the pass through window, and all 3 front windows with some fiberglass batts and Reflectix in non flat locales like around plumbing and stuffed into drafty openings. I glued these cut blocks on 2 sides of the fridge box, a notoriously air leaky environment. I left one low opening door to the truck bed uninsulated and openable to let in cyclonic fresh air in for exhausting the moisture up through the roof vents. jefe
jefe 4x4 12/31/18 12:21pm Truck Campers
RE: Would you buy diesel again?

Would I buy a diesel truck again? Not likely. Actually, no truck is on the purchase radar. I bought the 2001.5 Dodge 24valve Cummins Ram new for the motor and drivetrain which I had a good feeling it would outlive me. So far so good @ 174K miles, but our life clock is ticking. Yes, low on power compared to the newest renditions in the Diesel Warz, but we're like the tortoise part of the tortoise and the hare and fine with that. Simple 4 inch exhaust with a free flow muffler. Almost nothing to trick the engine. That's it; No smog device; No pee canister; No DEF tank to deal with. With the manual 6 speed NV5600, we have had no use for an engine brake, even with a 16K pound GVW going downhill @ 6 % grade. Just keep downshifting. Things are changing very quickly in the new truck market. Some good new gassers coming onto the scene. California has added an exorbitant tax on diesel fuel hoping our dirty diesel pick up brethren will skip the state in protest. It's a win-win for the State. I tried to find out how many are leaving CA but that is privileged information apparently just for politicians. Doing our part in downsizing we did buy a new AWD Subaru Cross Trek last week as it has one of the best drive systems of any small SUV with something called X-mode, and 8.7 inches of ground clearance for our snowy lane. Now we have only 4 vehicles left, all with 4WD or AWD. jefe and Jean my queen, a mating pair of septuagenarian love birds.
jefe 4x4 12/28/18 10:14pm Truck Campers
RE: Finished reading all 54 TC forum pages

Some of the most interesting neophite posts and trip reports are still in the archives. The names have changed but the questions/answers/opinions are still the same. Jeanie and I go back to a 2004 join date. I was sporting a 2001.5 Dodge Ram 4WD 2500 Cummins with an 1842 pound wet weight Lance Camper. 14 years later we are in the same rig with upgrades. Meanwhile, time is marching on and a lot of us have moved into larger campers or a different format altogether to more reflect our station in life: i.e. don't want to ruff it anymore; gimee more space and bigger tanks; and please, don't get those armoralled tires dirty. I find in the 11th hour of my life there is no perfect forum for what Jeanie and I do: namely get way out there with our off-road equipped t.c. There are maybe a half dozen combined on all truck camper forums like this TC forum and expedition portal that do what we do. jefe Our 'new' truck and 3 yr. old camper, 170K miles and 16 years ago in 2002: stock everything. My, how that has changed. Mount Whitney directly over rig: http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN0234_zps1de3afab.jpg
jefe 4x4 12/14/18 10:29pm Truck Campers
RE: I'm looking for a replacement truck

This topic is morphing right along, as expected. If your current, fixable rig doesn't work out, you might try a nationwide search (as on Craigslist or others) for a complete rig: 1. 3500/350, 4500/450, dually with a. diesel engine if you are going to put more than 250K miles yourself on it, or b. big, fuel sucking, gas engine if only to be used occasionally. The difference is the original "diesel penalty" you pay to get the oil burner that you don't pay for a gasser. 2. large camper already attached with the bugs worked out. Every week there are hundreds of older RV-ers whose lifestyle is changing that are finally shedding their camper/pickup baggage. This is your focus group, but you must cast your net wide and expect a lengthy gestation. Also, have your cash ready to pounce if you find the right one. Several members on here have done very well with this outlook. This time of year is the best for buying a complete truck camper outfit. Anytime of year is good for getting some of your money back on a used diesel pickup. One other issue that I will point out is the matter of a manual trans. Mine still works fine, and I do love it, but Jeanie is less and less inclined to drive it which leaves me to do almost all of the driving. Short trips: O.K. Long trips: not-so-O.K. Here again it's a matter of age. jefe Death Valley March 2008: http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z240/jefe4x4/DSCN1316.jpg
jefe 4x4 12/10/18 10:38am Truck Campers
RE: Winter weather without winterizing?

Just a caution about blowing out the lines with compressed air. The one place that keeps water, almost no matter what you do is the bottom end of the water pump. I've been caught a time or two not getting all the fluid out and the pump went south as a result. In winter, without a basement or much insulation, plus our ancient Lance Camper, we run it dry for the 3 or 4 deep winter months using minus 50 RV antifreeze to flush the toilet and bottled water in burst proof jugs. This is the way when you have a long in the tooth Lance with a 2700 pound loaded weight. Probably less without the 18 gallons of fresh. jefe
jefe 4x4 12/10/18 09:40am Truck Campers
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