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 > Your search for posts made by 'joe6789' found 30 matches.

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RE: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

The inverter constitutes a derived service and should follow the requirements of NEC Art 250-30. How does the inverter instructions say about how to wire the system. I believe it will say not to connect them together! I still say the easiest is to extend the one branch circuit to feed straight off inverter. No overcurrent protection required, no chance of back-feeding and very easy to do. Enblethen, this would require creating a sub-panel that the inverter feeds into, right? Do you think that's easier than having the inverter feed into half (one leg) of the existing panel?
joe6789 10/10/19 08:24pm Tech Issues
RE: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

I did see that diagram earlier but I wasn't sure how to adapt it since I'm using only one inverter instead of two. Can you please help me interpret how I would apply that diagram to my single-inverter setup? Let's say AC line 1 goes into the inverter and then out to the breaker panel. AC line 2 would have no inverter and go straight to the breaker panel. In the diagram, the neutral is branched going into both inverters and then re-merged afterwards. Would I likewise need to branch the neutral wire, with one going through the inverter and the other going straight to the breaker panel? I've received some advice that the two neutral lines would have to be isolated, but in this diagram they are not, so I'm not sure what to believe there.The single neutral would go through the inverter. When the inverter senses power from the line the relay closes to pass through power and charge the battery. L1 and N will both pass through the inverter. L2 goes direct to panel with no change. I understand what you mean. Might be best to call Victron and confirm. I don't think you will have any trouble. Time2roll, just to be clear, that means L2 would go direct to the panel with no neutral and no ground going alongside it. Correct? This is exactly how I initially planned to wire it, but I've seen some suggestions that L2 needs its own neutral and grounds rather than relying on the neutral and ground coming out of the inverter. In response to your other comment, I'll actually be putting one air conditioner on each leg in order to better balance the legs. We'll just remember not to turn on the air conditioner when not connected to shore power, or else burn through our batteries in about an hour. Thanks again for your guidance.
joe6789 10/10/19 08:17pm Tech Issues
RE: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

OP, What you may be missing is that charger/inverters switch both the neutral and hot line and the output neutral and ground are bonded when inverting (only). You will also need to split the neutral in the panel and run a 2nd neutral from the inverter output to the panel. And there may be other considerations. As Mayer said it can be done but not recommended. CA Traveler, thanks for your input. I also read your guidance in a similar post from a couple years ago. Regarding the Jack Mayer instructions, it seemed like the only reason he recommended against splitting the load center was because transfer switches are often rated for only 30A. But the Victron MultiPlus transfer switch is 50A, so I don't think there's an issue. He also warns against having imbalanced legs, but this also won't be a concern for me. So are there other big reasons not to use the "splitting the load center" method? It seems so much easier than creating a new sub-panel. Thanks for clarifying about the charger/inverters switching both hot and neutral, and the neutral/ground bond. It seems that these are both good things. What are the implications of that when doing the wiring?
joe6789 10/10/19 03:44pm Tech Issues
RE: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

For reference, here's a snapshot of the official diagram for split phase wiring from the Victron Multiplus 2000 manual: http://i.imgur.com/A1tWncz.png http://i.imgur.com/A1tWncz.png
joe6789 10/10/19 03:28pm Tech Issues
RE: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

Multiplus is the Victron that combines power with a limited source to boost as needed right? I don't see the circumstances in a 50 amp RV where this is a benefit. Are you plugging into 15 amp limited utility power? Are you trying to run a big RV with a single Honda 2200? Need to understand what you are attempting to accomplish. Time2roll, you are correct. The Multiplus can supplement short power with inverted battery power simultaneously. However, I don't expect to need that feature. I will usually either be connected to 50A shore power or boondocking off batteries (with occasional generator use). I bought the Multiplus because it is a combined inverter plus battery charger, has good quality and reputation, and was recommended for charging lithium batteries (which my existing converter can't do well). I am looking for the simplest installation. It seems like splitting the existing breaker panel is easier than installing a subpanel, which would require finding a place for a whole new panel and extending a bunch of the circuit wiring. Most of the circuits I want to run off the inverter are already on the same leg in my existing box, so I thought it would be relatively simple to just run the one leg through the inverter and leave the other leg as-is. But the fact that there's just one shared neutral wire for both hot legs is where I'm not sure what to do. Thanks for the help!Page 35 Appendix D shows the split phase installation. However you are just installing the single unit instead of two. Diagram shows ground running through the unit also but it is not switched so the in/out are bonded. Appendix B https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-MultiPlus-Compact-2000-120V-EN.pdf Time2roll, thanks for digging into the MultiPlus manual. I did see that diagram earlier but I wasn't sure how to adapt it since I'm using only one inverter instead of two. Can you please help me interpret how I would apply that diagram to my single-inverter setup? Let's say AC line 1 goes into the inverter and then out to the breaker panel. AC line 2 would have no inverter and go straight to the breaker panel. In the diagram, the neutral is branched going into both inverters and then re-merged afterwards. Would I likewise need to branch the neutral wire, with one going through the inverter and the other going straight to the breaker panel? I've received some advice that the two neutral lines would have to be isolated, but in this diagram they are not, so I'm not sure what to believe there.
joe6789 10/10/19 03:15pm Tech Issues
RE: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

The neutrals would be from different power sources and must be kept separate. The inverter neutral should (shall) be grounded where the shore power connection cannot be grounded in the rig and must be complete separate. Enblethen, thanks for the info. Another feature of the Multiplus is that it opens its ground relay when receiving shore power, thus relying on the shore power ground. And then when shore power is disconnected, the Multiplus uses its own ground to the rig. So it smartly switches between grounding in the rig and grounding through the shore power connection. Does that change the thinking at all?
joe6789 10/10/19 11:13am Tech Issues
RE: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

Multiplus is the Victron that combines power with a limited source to boost as needed right? I don't see the circumstances in a 50 amp RV where this is a benefit. Are you plugging into 15 amp limited utility power? Are you trying to run a big RV with a single Honda 2200? Need to understand what you are attempting to accomplish. Time2roll, you are correct. The Multiplus can supplement short power with inverted battery power simultaneously. However, I don't expect to need that feature. I will usually either be connected to 50A shore power or boondocking off batteries (with occasional generator use). I bought the Multiplus because it is a combined inverter plus battery charger, has good quality and reputation, and was recommended for charging lithium batteries (which my existing converter can't do well). I am looking for the simplest installation. It seems like splitting the existing breaker panel is easier than installing a subpanel, which would require finding a place for a whole new panel and extending a bunch of the circuit wiring. Most of the circuits I want to run off the inverter are already on the same leg in my existing box, so I thought it would be relatively simple to just run the one leg through the inverter and leave the other leg as-is. But the fact that there's just one shared neutral wire for both hot legs is where I'm not sure what to do. Thanks for the help!
joe6789 10/10/19 11:04am Tech Issues
RE: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

Grounds can be on a shared buss. Neutrals must be on a separate buss. Your idea is a very bad idea! Your output from the inverter should be in a separate sub-panel. Leave the 50 amp shore power as is. Second leg normally powers other systems such as water heater, washer/dryer, or second AC unit. Enblethen, if line 1 and line 2 currently share a neutral bus, why must they be on separate neutral buses after the inverter is installed? Why do you say splitting the existing panel is a bad idea? It basically creates two breaker panels within the one box. Jack Mayer describes the method here (scroll most of the way down to "Splitting" a 50-ampere Load Center): http://www.jackdanmayer.com/Wiring.html
joe6789 10/10/19 08:50am Tech Issues
RE: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

All the grounds tie together. Keep in mind that a 2000 watt inverter can only supply about 15-16 amps. A #14 wire can carry that much so your concerns about overloading a neutral are unfounded. However, feeding half of your breaker panel is not necessarily wise. That is why most times the inverter has a separate feed from a 20 amp breaker in the panel, and the output from the inverter is fed to a "sub" panel. Keep in mind that your original panel is also a "sub" panel, meaning the ground and neutral are NOT bonded together in your panel because the ONLY permitted bond occurs at the campground service panel. Hope this helps. Larry, yes, the neutral and ground bars are not currently bonded and they will stay that way. Regarding the current level, there could potentially be more than the 15-16 amps -- when NOT inverting (when connected to shore power) the current still passes through the inverter to get to the breaker panel, and that could theoretically be up to 50 amps. Why is feeding half the breaker panel not wise? The method is described by Jack Mayer in the "Splitting" a 50-ampere Load Center here: http://www.jackdanmayer.com/Wiring.html . He warns against it if the inverter only has a 30 amp transfer switch, but my Victron MultiPlus has a 50 amp switch so that's not a concern.
joe6789 10/10/19 08:42am Tech Issues
Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

Trying to install a Multi Plus Compact 2000w inverter/charger in my RV. The shore power connection has four wires: two 50A hot legs (red and black), neutral, and ground. Since the Multi Plus inverter will only power one hot leg, my plan is to "split" my existing breaker panel so that one leg (about half the panel) is powered direct from shore power and the other leg runs through the Multi Plus. Let's say I leave AC line 1 as the non-inverter side, going straight from shore power into the breaker panel. Then AC line 2 would go from shore power, to the Multi Plus AC-in, then from the Multi Plus AC-out to the second leg of the breaker panel. But how do I wire the neutral and ground? Normally AC line 1 and 2 share a neutral and ground (since 1 and 2 are out of phase, their currents cancel each other out on the neutral). But now line 2 gets sent to the Multi Plus while line 1 goes straight to the breaker panel. Is it fine for the neutral and ground wires to simply follow line 2 through the Multi Plus before arriving at the breaker panel? Or does line 1 now need its own neutral/ground? Do I need to split the neutral so that one neutral wire follows AC line 1 into the breaker panel and another neutral wire follows AC line 2 through the Multi Plus? If so, do I need to isolate the two neutrals by cutting the existing neutral bar in the breaker box? I've read that a better solution is installing a sub-panel, but I'm trying to go for the simplest solution, which I believe would be keeping everything in the existing breaker panel. Advice would be much appreciated.
joe6789 10/10/19 12:17am Tech Issues
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