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 > Your search for posts made by 'ognend' found 37 matches.

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RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

So moving on to the next thought. Let’s say I put 4080 lb tires on the Ram. Which is 880 lbs more payload in the rear, Theoretically. So 880 plus 4156 equals 5036. Not far off a 3500 dually payload rating. Lol. You can call those 295/70R18 tires super singles. NOT even close. My DRW has 9,750# RAWR, I have a 6k pin that puts me at the RAWR. These numbers make me dizzy :)
ognend 01/19/21 01:23pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Yes, correct, and this post and a few others you have made, tells me that you are much more knowledgeable, concerning the subject of your thread, than you were saying. Still makes a good discussion, and may help others understand why some TVs are more robust, than stickers are telling. Jerry I wish I was more knowledgeable. For example, I did not know that passenger weight was not included in the payload numbers - all this time I was thinking that the number assumes 6 people x 150 lbs = 900 lbs and that since there is only two of us, I magically gain 600 lbs of payload ;). I do understand (now) that RAWR/curb weight is what really matters. I did learn about the wheels accidentally when on a previous truck I went shopping for wheels and noticed a weight rating on them (before I bought - thank God). Thanks!
ognend 01/19/21 01:22pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

So moving on to the next thought. Let’s say I put 4080 lb tires on the Ram. Which is 880 lbs more payload in the rear, Theoretically. So 880 plus 4156 equals 5036. Not far off a 3500 dually payload rating. Lol. You can call those 295/70R18 tires super singles. This is assuming your wheels are rated for the same pressures/weights, correct?
ognend 01/19/21 05:34am Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

The first F 350 platinum edition I pull up on Autotrader has this GVWR problem. So go to Herb Chambers Ford of Westborough. Look for a black F350 platinum edition. 10,000 lb GVWR with 6000 front axle rating and. 7000 lb rear axle rating. The last pic on auto trader is this sticker. They don’t have the payload sticker up. Fascinating. The window sticker on that truck even has a line that says "PAYLOAD DOWNGRADE PACKAGE -- no charge". I can also see that a 2021 F-250 equivalent to my 2016 F-250 has only 240 lbs more on the RAWR. Good to know. The F-250 does not have the note about the payload being downgraded, however.
ognend 01/18/21 06:35am Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Well from 1994 to 2002 Dodge/Ram didn’t offer a SRW 3500 the 2500 with camper package and optional 265/85-16E tires gave it plenty of capacity NONE of which I was reflected in the VIN sticker front axle 5,200#, rear axle 6,084# and GVWR 8,800#. The camper package included the same rear springs as the 3500 DRW, tires rated at 3,415# ea. The standard tires were 245/75-16E rated at 3,042# ea. My guess for the 8800 GVW is lack of tire selection in the 90's. I still have my old camper pkg V10 2500, and can verify the springs will indeed hold up well over GVW without sag. I've had over 5400 lbs of sand with the rear maybe an inch lower than the front! But, mine came with 245/75R16 tires. So Dodge probably specced the GVW based on the smallest tire. If 20" tires were available with 4000 lbs capacity, they could've easily made it 11k GVW "3500 SRW". Hello, OP here. I guess I was concerned with the legalities of things first and foremost. We did use our truck to pull a 12,500 lbs horse trailer around the West for months, camping with our two horses full-time (it weighed about 2800 lbs on the hitch). The truck _appeared_ (!) perfectly capable to tow this trailer and stop it - I am not the kind to fly about with a trailer with livestock attached in the back anyway, my self-imposed limit is 65mph when I tow. Now, with that said, we bought the truck brand new in 2016 (F-250 4x4 diesel, crew cab, short bed) and it squatted something awful when we put the trailer on. I had to go the next day and get a set of "super springs" installed on the back, to level the truck under load. We traded in a 2006 GMC 2500 diesel 4x4 crew cab to get the new Ford and interestingly enough, the 10 years older GMC did not squat much with the same trailer (it too appeared perfectly capable to tow the trailer) - this tells me that personal anecdotes mean little in these discussions as sometimes all they are is "ignorance is bliss" kind of approach :) Thanks! :)
ognend 01/18/21 05:28am Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Not much more to explain, but hope your concerns are put to rest (nap) :)! Haha, yes, thank you all for the help, I am (finally) at rest with all this. I think I am going to keep my truck.
ognend 01/17/21 01:45pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Which kind of makes you wonder - if all you go by are rear tire and RAWR ratings - what is the point of printing a payload capacity numebr on the inside of the driver door, right next to the RAWR number? Why doesn't Ford just state that your RAWR number is the only number to look at (for payload purposes)? Just musing here, you don't have to answer - this stuff is confusing a bit once you start digging into it. You can tow X pounds but then your payload can run out before the towing number but then forget the payload number, go by the RAWR number.... I need a nap! :) Very easy. There is a class 2B designation, which limits you to 10,000 lbs GVWR. Many HOA's limit vehicles over 10,000 lbs. Many states limit where vehicles over 10,000 lbs can drive. Some states consider vehicles over 10,000 lbs to be commercial vehicles, with higher registration fees and more restrictions. This is why Ford, GM and Ram offer a "de-rated" one ton truck that is class limited to 10,000 lbs. In order to keep the vehicle "intended" to be 10,000 lbs or less, the manufacturers have a couple options. They research, design and test components to break right at/around 10,000 lbs. That requires a lot of money and makes it so parts aren't interchangeable. The other option is to use the same components on the 1 ton trucks and put a couple stickers on the 3/4 ton truck. It is an artificial de-rating of the truck to allow it to be marketed, sold and registered as a class 2B truck. Now, that doesn't mean that it will break at 10,001 lbs. It also doesn't mean that you can't pay to register it for a higher rating. Now, once you register for or carry more than 10,000 lbs, you lose all the "advantages" of a 3/4 ton truck. You can't drive in the left lane on roads in some states, you can't park in some neighborhoods, you can't drive on parkways, etc. It is perfectly LEGAL to carry as much weight as you paid to carry. Registration fees are taxes to carry weight down the road. As long as you are under your paid fees and under federal bridge limits you are legal. Components are tested and rated, with plenty of room for leeway. My Ram 2500 is tested and rated to 12,500 lbs of capacity, with plenty of room for leeway. All I have to do is pay an additional $25/year for higher registration fees and I could essentially have a 1 ton truck. Ram verified all the components of my vehicle to carry that weight, because its cheaper to put the same bed, axles, wheels, tires, brake system, engine and transmission in the 3/4 ton than design all those systems from scratch. Does that answer your question? Wow, yes. Thank you!
ognend 01/17/21 01:43pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Yes, legal opinions, are just that, and is why the manufacturer supplies axle rating. I think Spoon already explained to you, that the frame is very capable of handling anything the axle/tires can handle. You don't seem to be familiar with Ford trucks, especially the F250, such as the one I own. I ordered mine with F350 suspension, heavy duty service option. My truck does not need anything added to carry 6,200 on R/A , with very little squat. Many F250s have the added camper pkg, which is 350 suspension with sway bar. Your views have changed a lot since getting your DRW 3500, which is a great choice for you. Everyone does not choose to have more truck than they need. Would a class 3 truck be a better choice for OP? Yes, if he decides to get a new truck. The truck he already owns, will work great, if he stays within R/A, and max tire rating. Jerry Which kind of makes you wonder - if all you go by are rear tire and RAWR ratings - what is the point of printing a payload capacity numebr on the inside of the driver door, right next to the RAWR number? Why doesn't Ford just state that your RAWR number is the only number to look at (for payload purposes)? Just musing here, you don't have to answer - this stuff is confusing a bit once you start digging into it. You can tow X pounds but then your payload can run out before the towing number but then forget the payload number, go by the RAWR number.... I need a nap! :)
ognend 01/17/21 08:45am Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

full fuel tank doesn't affect payload, it's already factored in. so payload is ONLY anything in the truck other than the full fuel tank. this is why towing capacity numbers are the second thing to consider, after payload capacity. nearly all tow vehicles will run out of payload WAY before getting close to the max towing capacity. this is clearly detailed in the Ford owners manual towing section. Cool, thanks, I finally understand (although I did not know that the vehicle leaves the factory with a full tank of diesel?). I have a $60,000 piece of metal that weighs almost 8,000 lbs but can barely tow a 6,000 lbs living quarters horse trailer (if such thing were to exist) ;). I guess I should either look into the new gassers for real or into a dually. I don't want to tow much, just a 10,000-11,000 lbs GVWR living quarters horse trailer, which means I need at least 3,000 lbs payload capacity.
ognend 01/17/21 05:47am Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

No it says combined, that means weight of passengers and and anything else added to vehicle. This^^^ Now we know your actual truck wt, when it left the factory, which is 7,839, and more realistic. Anything added, bed mat, mud flaps tonneau cover, and hitch, will reduce this 2,161 available payload. But still, the good news...follow those axle/tire ratings. Jerry OK so this basically means that Ford is saying you can have a 15,100 lbs trailer behind you (max towing capacity for GN/5w) but after a full tank of diesel (26*8 lbs) and a driver (let's assume someone like me - 150 lbs), this mythical trailer can only weigh 1800 lbs on the gooseneck ball. If you add another 150 lbs person next to you, you can only put 1650 lbs on the hitch. A toolbox in the back with some tools or a few 60lb s square bales of hay and the mythical 15,100 lbs gooseneck trailer can now weigh only 1500 lbs on the gooseneck ball. So, what do people use these 3/4 ton trucks for, then? I guess between my wife and I and our dog and some suitcases, I would be overweight with a 6500 lbs living quarters horse trailer (assuming 25% on the hitch). Such a trailer does not even exist in a living quarters version ;)
ognend 01/16/21 08:05pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

GM DOES have a complete towing specs sticker on the door frame now, pretty cool. Ford needs to get with the program. Ford is with the program. They do put the payload sticker on the door jam. No, they aren’t. Payload sticker is truck payload only and tongue weight becomes part of that payload. Important in towing considerations, yes. GM has an actual towing sticker stating towing capacity on the specific truck. They have a payload sticker, too, as required by law now. Towing sticker 2019 lists GCWR, GVWR, GAWR RR, Max Payload, Max tongue weight, curb weight. 2020 got reformatted and added Max conventional towing weight, tongue weight, gooseneck Max tow, tongue weight. This could also be covered by a GCWR sticker, which now has to reverse calculated using the Ford towing Guide ;( Love my F150, Ford is my go to vehicle manufacturer, but they could do so much better. The OP wasn't complaining about finding the tow rating. They were complaining about the PAYLOAD (which is on the door jam)...then referencing an unrelated number. You are correct.
ognend 01/16/21 03:06pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Ahhh, the good ole weight cop paranoia is in full force in this thread! Took a page r 2 longer than usual... For everyone else, the OP's truck HAS to have a weight sticker in it, driver side door jamb. Or at a minimum it came from the factory with one. Now it could have been removed. Is the vehicle a salvage title that got T boned, or does it appear re-painted? Only logical, yet not probable reason to not have the sticker. OK - you are actually right. It does have a yellow sticker (**** it, I am blind, my apologies!). It says "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed: 980KG OR 2161 LBS.". It also says "Seating capacity: total: 6, front:3, rear:3". Does this mean that with my wife and I being the only passengers, I can add 4x150lbs = 600 lbs to the 2161 lbs number (for a total of 2761 lbs)? Thanks!
ognend 01/16/21 02:56pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Thank you all for the replies. I think I am just going to go to the scales and get the weights in front and back and calculate max payload. I think after reading the discussion, I am comfortable with this. Thanks :)
ognend 01/10/21 04:43pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Ford's towing guide for 2016: https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/dam/aem_fleet/en_us/fleet/towing-guides/Ford_Linc_16RVTTowGuide.pdf Look if you don't believe me. Ford does not say what the weight of my truck is, all it says is the FR and RR GAWR and the GVWR of the vehicle (on the inside sticker of the driver door). The towing guide does not specify how much can go onto the rear axle (gooseneck/5w pin), only what the max weight pulled can be for bumper pull (14,000 lbs) and gooseneck (15,100 lbs). It does specify on page 10 of that guide the max cargo weight with slide-in camper as 1792 lbs for a F-250 6.7L crew cab 4x4 version. It also states next to that table "Cargo Weight Rating shown in chart is maximum allowable, assuming weight of a base vehicle with required camper option content and a 150-lb. passenger at each available seating position". Cheers. I already have added a set of "super springs" (https://www.supersprings.com/) on the rear wheels. My concern is more about the legality of things in case of an accident/lawsuit.
ognend 01/10/21 01:14pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Are you sure it's not 2700lb payload? I know there are some oddly weak payload trucks out there but it would be unusual to find a truck with a 15k 5th Wheel/Gooseneck rating and only 1700lb payload. Is it some kind of gorped up harley edition where they added 500lb of bling eating up a lot of the payload? Not saying it would be impossible but a good chance you misread something. Nope. It is a 2016 Ford F-250 Powerstroke XLT crew cab, 6.7L 4x4 truck with a short bed. If you google "Ford towing guide" and go to the 2016 towing guide and find the row/column for the particular configuration, that's the max payload for camper. The towing guide does not say what the actual max weight can be on the gooseneck pin, I guess Ford doesn't want to publish this information and they leave it up to you to weigh your truck and calculate what you can put on the rear axle? I just don't understand why Ford can't provide the information online like RAM does for their trucks. RAM has a web page where you can select the exact configuration (engine, trim, 3/4 or 1 ton, so on and so on) and it will tell you what exact max payload is and what max towing capacity is. Chevy will put this info in their new trucks inside the driver door (I have heard). Only Ford refers you to their stupid 20 page towing guide and still doesn't tell you the full story.
ognend 01/10/21 11:08am Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Nope. The only place Ford refers to a passenger in each seat in the rating is for an IN BED CAMPER, not towing. Before 2021, Ford referred to a 150# driver included in the tow rating, now they add ONE passenger in the tow rating. Ford does not mention payload capacity anywhere outside of the max cargo weight (limit) for the 2016 towing guide (that I can find anyway). It also doesn't give you the assumed curb weight of the vehicle you bought. All I have on the driver door sticker is front GAWR, rear GAWR and GVWR numbers. The towing guide talks about conventional (bumper pull) towing limit (14,000 lbs) and gooseneck/5w towing limit (15,100 lbs). I suppose they expect you to take the truck to the scales and figure out where you are with your particular trailer and look at the GAWR calculation (as Jerry described).
ognend 01/10/21 09:25am Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Thank you all!
ognend 01/10/21 09:22am Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

The payload number on door, 1,792 is just the weight of your truck, as it left the factory, subtracted from 10,000 registration wt. That means your truck weighed 8,208 as a finished truck as shipped. You need to weigh your truck, ready to tow, full fuel, passengers, and gear. Weigh axles separately, to determine how much is left to add to rear axle. For example rear axle weighs 3,350, and your RAWR is 6,350. You can add 3K to rear axle, such as pin wt of a FW or gooseneck trailer. Jerry, thanks. Is this the legal aspect or the practical aspect? In other words - if you were in an accident and taken to the scales (does this happen in real life?) and you were over the 1792 lbs payload on the pin but under the (RAWR - scale weight of rear axle) calculation - which one is chosen as the legal definition of overweight?
ognend 01/10/21 07:26am Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Thanks. So to translate in English, there are gooseneck trailers that could weigh 15,100 lbs but weigh much less than 1790 lbs on the pin. They are just not RVs and horse trailers with living quarters. In order to be legal and under the max requirements for towing a living quarters horse trailer, one should move to a truck that can handle the load properly - as in handle a payload of 25% of the gooseneck GVWR on the pin. This is a 10,000 GVWR 6.7L 3/4 powerstroke (2016), 4x4 with a crew cab (all payload detracting factors). It has a max towing capacity (gooseneck/5w) of 15,100 and max payload of 1792 (as per Ford's towing guide). I have been debating moving to one of the new gassers since they seem to have a better towing/payload rating, are cheaper to maintain etc. The trailer has a GVWR of 12,700 lbs (so realistically 25% of that is 3,200 lbs - which is right near the max for the similarly configured gasser 6.6L Chevy or 7.3L Ford). It is only my wife and I so we have the 450lbs "left over" on the truck payload for the remaining 3 adults calculated/assumed in the payload rating provided by the manufacturer(s).
ognend 01/10/21 06:00am Tow Vehicles
Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Hello all! Can someone clarify something for me? If a truck's max gooseneck trailer loaded weight is 15,100 lbs (as per manufacturer towing guide - it is a Ford) - how can the max cargo weight rating be 1792 lbs? If I understand correctly, the max cargo weight rating is all the weight that can be put into/onto the truck (passengers, their things) PLUS the, for example, weight of the gooseneck pin of the loaded, 15,100 lbs trailer. Ford's towing guide says: "Cargo Weight Rating shown in chart is maximum allowable, assuming weight of a base vehicle with required camper option content and a 150-lb. passenger at each available seating position". Does this mean the allowed payload is AFTER 5 passengers? if I removed 3 passengers, does that add 450 lbs to payload capacity (max allowed cargo weight as per Ford)? In addition, what gooseneck trailer weighs 15,100 lbs (max loaded trailer weight spec as per Ford) but only 1792 on the hitch (as per max allowed cargo weight)? This would imply that only 12% of the loaded trailer weight is on the hitch. Does this sound right? I know this is not the case for my loaded horse trailer with living quarters (but then horse trailers with living quarters tend to be front heavy). Am I understanding this right? Thanks!
ognend 01/09/21 09:07pm Tow Vehicles
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