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Open Roads Forum  >  RV Pet Stop

 > Recognizing an Unethical Breeder

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Lisa M

Belle River, Ontario, CANADA

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Posted: 05/21/06 07:34am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Recognizing an Unethical Breeder

Recognizing an unethical breeder
When you talk to people about their puppies, there are a few warning signs that you are dealing with a disreputable, unethical, or irresponsible breeder:

1. The "breeder" lacks knowledge about the breed
2. The "breeder" shows ignorance or denial of genetic defects in the breed
3. The "breeder" has no involvement in dog sports
4. The "breeder" doesn't let you observe the puppies or adults, or let you see the kennels
5. The "breeder" has no documentation and cannot provide a pedigree
6. The puppies are not socialized

How to read those puppy for sale ads!
Here are a few more things that you ought to look out for.

"Champion lines" -- look instead for Champion sired or Champion parents. All Champion Lines means is that there is a dog somewhere in your puppy's family that was a champion - it says nothing about the quality of the parents at all. Anyone can buy a puppy from a champion, but it does not mean that they have any other interest in the breed but to bank on the name and make money. The puppy may have been sold as a pet (since it had some problems that prevented it from being shown) and an unethical person did not have the dog desexed and is still breeding puppies.

"AKC Registration" or "AKC Papers, Has Papers" -- So what? AKC registration does not guarantee quality. AKC papers are much like the title of a car - papers are issued on the junked chevy on blocks in your yard just as easily as they are on a brand new, shiny Jaguar. AKC does not control breeding, approve litters, or guarantee soundness. Unfortunately, in the hands of some unethical breeders, it doesn't even guarantee that the dog is purebred.

AKC Registration is automatic if you buy from a reputable breeder - they will provide all necessary paperwork when you buy a puppy. It is not a selling point, and shouldn't be treated as one.

Be wary of other "registrations", as well. There are several groups that are registering dogs, occassionally even mixed breeds, for a fee. This registration means nothing, and is of no value to you. Many backyard breeders and puppymills that have been banned from AKC & UKC registration seek out these 'other' so called kennel clubs so that when they sell puppies to the unsuspecting buyers they still have 'papers' on their puppies. Some of the registries reputable breeders consider as bogus registries are:

1. America's Pet Registry Inc. (APRI) Advertises free registration for commercial breeders. Non Profit 'dedicated to the preservation of the professional pet industry'.
2. American Canine Assoc (ACA) Advertises that over 3000 adult breeding canines are registered each week. Only registry endorsed by Petland. Caters to commercial breeders.
3. American Purebred Registry (APR)
4. Animal Registry Unlimited (ARU)
5. Continental Kennel Club *Do NOT confuse with Canadian Kennel Club, also known as the CKC, Canada's equivalent to the AKC or UKC*
6. Canine Registration And Certification Services (CRCS)Caters to commercial breeders. Free registration and free litter registration.
7. Dog Registry Of America (DRA)
8. Federation Of International Canines (FIC)
9. Global Kennel Club (GKC)
10. North American Purebred Dog Registry (NAPDR)
11. Universal Kennel Club International (UKCI) Caters to the commercial dog industry and promises 'Complete Privacy Protection' for all breeders.
12. United All Breed Registry (UABR) Advertises free registration of adults when you register a litter. Caters to the commercial breeders. Started "Gold Label Pets"
13. World Kennel Club (WKC)
14. World Wide Kennel Club (WWKC)

"extra-big", "extra-small" -- breeders trying for extremes are rarely raising healthy dogs, and any ad that has to stress the size and weight of the dog to sell the puppies is suspect, in my opinion. Usually, these dogs are outside of the breed standard and are subject to their own medical problems due to excessive size or lack of it. For example; teacup is NOT a recognized size for Poodles OR Chihuahua's. Rottweiler's should NOT weigh 130+ lbs.

"rare" -- Why? Is the dog showable? What kind of problems does this "rare" color or size or pattern entail? There are many people buying "rare" white Boxers & Dobermans, not realizing that they are not show-prospects, and that they are buying a dog with medical problems from lack of pigmentation, and possible behavioral problems as well. Yes, there are RARE breeds available in the USA imported from other countries as well as bred in the USA and registered with legitimate registries like the FCI, CKC, ARBA, UCI ect. Buyer beware any breeder touting RARE colors ect in regular known breeds. If the color is NOT accepted in the breeds standard their is usually a very good reason why. Even reputable breeders get colors that may not be acceptable to breed or show, and they usually will sell these pups cheaper to very good homes that spay/neuter. If you want to rescue a purebred many of these purebred rescue groups have these so called 'rare' colors available. Reputable breeders do NOT promote colors not acceptable in their breed standards. They also do not breed for GIGANTIC sized proportions like some large well known 'kennels'.

There are even some people selling unusual cross breeds as "rare" dogs, and people buy them thinking they are getting some unique treasure. If someone wants a crossbreed they should rescue one from their local humane assoc, not give money to an unethical breeder who is breeding mixed pups obviously to get money.

"see both parents" this is not usually a good thing. Rarely will a good breeder have the luck to own both dogs for the perfect litter. If you can see both parents, it usually means that the person had two dogs in the back yard and didn't supervise them carefully enough, resulting in puppies. Not always the case as many show breeders do have both sire & dam on site, it's just a buyer beware when it comes to newspaper ads.

"Must go now!" Why? Are they too big to be cute anymore? Need more money? Is there a problem? Be very wary of this one.


Lisa and Larry McKay (Lisa always the one posting here-hubby computer illiterate)
2004 Coyote 22CP
2000 GMC Sierra Z71





Joy

Henderson KY 42420

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Posted: 05/21/06 09:40am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Excellent advice!! Personally, I usually go for the Heinz type from the local Humane Society - they need a good home and generally are so grateful & loving as if they know they were rescued - particular the grown dogs! I've been working at our local HS at adoptathons and it is heartbreaking to see so many needy, loving animals. We are having pretty good adoption numbers from these events but not nearly as many as we need.


See ya' down the road!

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Lisa M

Belle River, Ontario, CANADA

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Posted: 05/21/06 09:47am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Joy, Glad to see their is someone else on this forum that is on the same page as me. I was beginning to get worried. [emoticon]

skipnchar

Topeka or somewhere else

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Posted: 05/21/06 09:53am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hummm....seems to me that if it weren't for cross breading all dogs would be wolves. That's the way all of these "purebread" dogs got here but they just took longer and did it more often. That's why so many of them have genetic problems, due to the inbreading. At least these designer muts shouldn't be creating more of these type of problems.


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US Govt survey shows three out of four people make up 75% of the total population


Lisa M

Belle River, Ontario, CANADA

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Posted: 05/21/06 10:13am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

skipnchar wrote:

Hummm....seems to me that if it weren't for cross breading all dogs would be wolves. That's the way all of these "purebread" dogs got here but they just took longer and did it more often. That's why so many of them have genetic problems, due to the inbreading. At least these designer muts shouldn't be creating more of these type of problems.


Inbreeding is a quick way to bring the BAD AND GOOD traits to the surface. Not that I think it should be something that should be taken lightly or done by anyone, or on a regular basis or anything, but your statement is not accurate at all. In breeding in itself does not cause genetic problems within breeds. Those genetic problems were already there to begin with. Poor breeding practices with little to no thought put in is what causes certain diseases and temperament problems. Inbreeding and more specifically line breeding, are very imprtant tools to breeding programs. If all breeders ever did was outcross (breed to unrelated dogs) they would never be able to pinpoint where the bad and good traits of a line come form and therefore could never produce a consistent line of dogs. By continually outcrossing a breeder does not eliminate genetic defects, all they do is make it harder to find out where it stems from, therefore making it more diffiuclt to know what dogs carrier those speicfic problems. In breeding can and does end with disaterous results but that is because people do it with no thought or research done first and sell the puppies never to hear from the owners again. Inbreeding, when done properly, is a good breeding tool. Yes, it doubles up on the bad traits, but the good as well!! The key is inbreeding responsibly (and this means keeping th elitter on your yard or that of close people who can evaluate all the puppies) and this means knowing when to do it and not doing it in order to just sell puppies because you don't have any other dogs available to your use. Inbreeding for no specific reason and selling the puppies off to pet homes is why inbreeding gets a bad name. That is not why inbreeding should be used! This whole "hybrid vigor" thing is a load of******if you ask me. All types of dogs, including mixed breeds, carry genetic problems. By saying that these designer mutts won't create these genetic defects is very far form the truth and quite honestly is just a marketing ploy that seems to fool alot of people.

RVSnowbird

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Posted: 05/21/06 11:06am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

added to Popular Pet Topics and FAQ's under "Choosing a Pet"

....RVSnowbird

Crowe

Merrimack, NH

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Posted: 05/21/06 01:47pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Could you define what you mean by #3? There are breeders who are not into anything other than loving the breed but are responsible and ethical. Not everyone owns a pet for a things like agility, hunting, or showing. Some are just plain pets and some breeders breed just pets. As long as they respect the breed and appreciate everything that goes with responsible breeding, I don't understand why being interested in dog sports would be a requirement.


I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be Douglas Adams

RV-less for now but our spirits are still on the open road.

rockhillmanor

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Posted: 05/21/06 05:21pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Crowe wrote:

Could you define what you mean by #3? There are breeders who are not into anything other than loving the breed but are responsible and ethical. Not everyone owns a pet for a things like agility, hunting, or showing. Some are just plain pets and some breeders breed just pets. As long as they respect the breed and appreciate everything that goes with responsible breeding, I don't understand why being interested in dog sports would be a requirement.


I don't think its a requirement its a suggestion in the right direction to help one identify a person who is NOT out for the sole reason to make money from breeding animals. People who participate in a sport, breed for the 'betterment of the breed'. They cull out the ones with genetic problems, faults or diseases and eliminate them from their breeding programs. They maintain the 'standard' set forth for whatever breed they have chosen for their sport.

There are breeds that are way over 100 years old. If they and their predecessors did not practice the accepted way of breeding 'per the standard' none of the breeds you see today would even remotely resemble their breed. Each breed of dog has a 'standard' that must be adhered to. If breeding is done correctly, to maintain the type.

(And I will insert the fact that that are exceptions when you dealve into the field dogs.Because the field dog people maintain a standard also. But that's a whole nuther story which the novice wouldn't understand,and really has nothing to do with this topic. )

For what reasons would a loving family who adores their pet to death and spoils it and gives it a wonderful home.....want to breed it?

To keep it in the KISS theory the above mentioned would NOT breed their dog. People who have dogs as their beloved pet and is a part of their family don't breed them for money.

It's the ones that do. Usually to pay bills or buy furniture or to add to their income. Basically all the WRONG reasons, adding to the shelter/rescue pool.

Another question to add to this is:
To ask what faults the dog has. Most back yard breeders do not even know what the 'standard' requires of the breed they are breeding/selling. Let alone what the term fault means. AND every dog has one, no one as of the date has breed the 'perfect' dog without a fault.[emoticon]

AND here is another waring sign, responsible breeders who are breeding per the standard, DON'T advertise in the paper.
People who make money off their pets, advertise in the paper.

There is nothing wrong if you purchased your pet out of the local paper. I'm sure he's cute and you love him to the ends of earth, but you HAVE contributed to supporting back yard breeders. Same as if you purchase your pet from a pet store, you HAVE contributed to the horrifying practices of the puppy mills.

If you don't want to contribute to these practices, buy from a breeder that shows, a shelter, or rescue. These 3 don't use their dogs for the sole purpose of making money. AND they DO NOT contribute to the never ending shelter/rescue issue, because they ALL will take the dog back if it dosen't work out. Thereby these 3 stop the cycle in its tracks.

You know what? I just wrote possibly the longest post in history here and basically here is the question to ask yourself before purchasing a pup.....
Is this person selling puppies soley to increase their income?

If the answer is yes, run. Animals are not here to make money for people. We are their stewards here on earth, not to use them to make money.[emoticon]


We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned,
so as to have the life that is waiting for us.


Crowe

Merrimack, NH

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Posted: 05/21/06 06:29pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Rockhillmanor, I will wait for Lisa's response. I doubt she will be quite so rude. I have had 5 dogs-3 Gordon setters, 1 bluetick coonhound and 1 bloodhound. Mind you, the Gordon is the 3rd breed to be accepted into the AKC. I am not a "novice" when it comes to hunting dogs-I've trained two and my bloodhound has been trained-by me-for tracking. My 3rd Gordon is show quality (from the same breeder as the field dogs) but we have not chosen to get into showing as it is too time consuming.

They cull out the ones with genetic problems, faults or diseases and eliminate them from their breeding programs. They maintain the 'standard' set forth for whatever breed they have chosen for their sport.

Are you referring to breeders who euthanize white boxers, red Gordons or dogs that are born deaf? I can guarantee you that "reputable" breeders will do this so they don't compromise their lines in public. And you may even know one. Shall we put down dogs that don't meet the breed standard solely because they might be ugly? If so my mother in law would not have the ugliest boxer on the face of this planet who happens to have one of the best temperaments I've ever seen. A breeder can take into account genetics, betterment of the breed, not be involved in any dog "sport" and still produce wonderful puppies. Not every dog needs to be perfect.

rockhillmanor

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Posted: 05/21/06 07:06pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Crowe wrote:

I doubt she will be quite so rude......
Are you referring to breeders who euthanize .


NO! I did NOT mean cull in the sense of putting them down.
They are REMOVED from the breeding program, and are neutered and placed in loving homes. No one has control of genetics. You can pull a color from 10 generations back. It happens, period.

And not ANY part of my post was meant to be rude to you, sorry you took it that way, it was not directed to ANY 'one' given person. I quoted your post ONLY as a subject matter to be discussed.

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