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 > Airbags and handling issues

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woodhog

NS

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Joined: 08/06/2002

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Posted: 10/11/06 08:08am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

hbski wrote:

The engineer / dodge 3500 / TC / firestone airbag owner perspective:

The issue is that the airbags are mounted inside of the frame rails. Thus, when they are supporting load they are effectively moving the support reaction inward toward the centerline of the truck. This reduces the suspensions moment arm to react sway and thus allows more sway. A better way to mount the airbags would be outside the frame directly over the existing springs, which I will do one of these days. For now, I've got those 2.5 inch bump stops to install


Will the Air Ride kit as supplied allow mounting the bags outside the frame or is there extra work to be done??

Thanks


2004.5 Dodge 4x4 SRW Diesel, 245/70R19.5 Michelin XDS2, Bilstein Shocks
Torklift Stable loads, BD Steering Stabilizer Bar, Superchips "TOW" Programed,Rickson 19.5 wheels

2006 8.5 Northstar Arrow, 3 Batteries 200 Watts Solar,
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vanbikehorse

Green Lane, PA

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Posted: 10/11/06 10:47am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'm with you Kober, its a delicate balance. When I am going down the superhighway, I want them aired down to a lower number (used to be 40, but now with the SuperSprings, its 10) for the smooth ride. When on back roads 80 was better (40 now). I have a rutted gravel road to drive on each time I go out and less air is better than too much, but too little and you will start to get seasick!


2005 Chevy 2500HD SB X-CAB,4X4,G-80,D/A,ALCOA Wls,265/75R16E, Air Lift Sure Set, SuperSprings, RS9000x, Curt 14108.
2003 Alpenlite Laramie w/X CAB & Polar Cub A/C, Happijac FM, EU-2000.
2000 Brenderup Baron TC Horse Tailer
1996 Arab Endurance Race Horse

jdtrotter

Big Pine

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Posted: 10/11/06 10:52am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Pictures, did they work for anyone else? I just get the little red X

Diane





BradW

Mayor of Flat Rock

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Posted: 10/11/06 10:53am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FF1063 wrote:

I heard the newest Dodges have a softer empty ride than the earlier generation trucks. With that, I don't think the newer trucks handle the weight the same as the older ones, so general air bag info might not apply across all models.

Yep, that could be the case.

It just seems like practically all the posts I've read where folks have installed airbags and didn't like the results turn out to be Dodge trucks.

Brad

FF1063

NY

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Posted: 10/11/06 10:57am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

.

* This post was edited 10/09/07 05:48pm by FF1063 *

middlecalf

Sweet, ID

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Posted: 10/11/06 11:22am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Makes sense to me that lifting the frame off of the overloads with a lesser moment arm would not be good for dampening dynamic motion. Maybe Dodge's rear suspension is such that inflated airbags lift the frame off of the overloads more readily than other trucks. On my '04 GMC Sierra 2500HD D/A, with 60 lbs in the airbags, the overloads are still in contact. I also can't create very much differential side to side tilt with my airbags, maybe a couple of inches or so at max. My install (by Tork Lift) puts the airbags directly under the frame, just inside of the springs.

BradW

Mayor of Flat Rock

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Posted: 10/11/06 11:33am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Kober wrote:

[image]

[image]

[image]


[image]


[image]

[image]


I just get red x's also.

Brad

Kober

Arizona

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Joined: 02/01/2003

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Posted: 10/11/06 11:35am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BradW wrote:

FF1063 wrote:

I heard the newest Dodges have a softer empty ride than the earlier generation trucks. With that, I don't think the newer trucks handle the weight the same as the older ones, so general air bag info might not apply across all models.

Yep, that could be the case.

It just seems like practically all the posts I've read where folks have installed airbags and didn't like the results turn out to be Dodge trucks.

Brad


I'm not sure I'd go that far. It's not that I don't like the results. There is a learning curve in how to use them.

I did not realize the different effects the bags have on the handling and ride when going from hardtop to bumpy dirt road. When I'm fully loaded and navigate a curvy highspeed (50-65MPH) mountain road, the more air in the bags, the better the truck handles. I usually use between 65 and 80lbs. Going slow on a bumpy road, 15lbs is perfect.

I guess the point is that you really need an inboard controller so that you can set the pressure to match the situation.

I'm still glad I have the bags and would not be without them. I am seriously considering the bumpers to make contact with the overloads sooner with the bags at pressure.

Maybe the Dodges behave differently with the bags because it takes more weight to engage the overloads in addition to the inside the frame location issue mentioned above. I dunno.

As for the pictures; they were there yesterday. I'll try again tonite with a different site.


2004.5 Dodge 3500 4x4 DRW CTD 600, Warn Winch etc,
2008 FUZION 362.
PATRIOT GUARD RIDER, AMERICAN LEGION RIDER
Retired 25 years US ARMY, retired 24 years business owner

hbski

Huntington Beach

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Joined: 07/18/2006

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Posted: 10/11/06 12:04pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Well, it's not just the overloads that aren't being loaded. As you take more load at the airbag it unloads the main spring as well. If you sum the load at the airbag and at the main spring, your effective suspension point is somewhere in between them. In order to react the overturning tendancy of the load during sway you want the reaction points to be as far outboard as possible.

It's even more complicated than that really, because you have spring rates to consider as well. So if your airbags have a lower spring rate than the main springs as well as being farther inboard, they are really throwing a wrench into the plans.

Not that they don't help, it would just be WAY better if they were mounted over the main springs, which I don't see any reason that they cannot be mounted there other than the need for custom brackets.


'06 Dodge 3500 4x4 QC LB DRW
Ride-Rites, Hellwig, Torklift Tiedowns, Fast Guns, Superhitch
'07 Okanagan 117DBL

Dave D.

Snohomish, WA, USA

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Posted: 10/11/06 12:13pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My airbags work great on my Dodge. I keep them 85/left 95/right to compensate for the slideout. The truck is much better with them. Of course, this is in conjunction with all of my other mods (see sig).

It seems to me the DRW Dodges have more issues with the airbags, from what I've seen written. Maybe the different suspension geometry sets up a harmonic sway -- but something seems to be different.


2005 Gulf Stream 8356, 350 Cat; new pictures coming


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