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Topic: battery charging question

Posted By: patchedup on 02/06/07 04:25pm

I checked the voltage on my tt today and voltage was 12.0. I then connected the camper to a 15 amp outlet in my garage via a 50 ft extension cord. After 6 hours of charging this way, with the campers inverter, the voltage was still 12.0 volts. Is the battery to low to be charged any at all with the camper charger? Or could the inverter be bad?The battery will take a good charge with a regular auto type 15 amp charger, but being plugged into the house current, nothing much is happening.Thanks for any replies!


Posted By: kd8wdave on 02/06/07 04:57pm

There are many folks here who may know more about this than I, but I think we need a little more info. a) do you have any DC when plugged into house b) have you checked fuses? c) You talk about 'inverter', my understanding this normally used to convert DC to AC ??





Posted By: time2roll on 02/06/07 05:11pm

If the charging inverter or converter does not increase the battery voltage to 13.4 to 14.4 volts it is not charging. You need to check if it is producing the power and not getting to the battery or just not producing the power.


Posted By: accsys on 02/06/07 06:15pm

Maybe I am missing something here. Are you checking the voltage while it is charging or after removing the electrical cord? If you are just measuring the battery without having the 15 amp hooked up, I believe all your going to get is 12 volts. It has to be in the process of charging to get the 13-14 Volts. A 12 volt battery only puts out 12 volts by itself. If you are only getting 12 volts with the charger hooked up, it isn't charging.


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Posted By: rrupert on 02/06/07 06:29pm

What gauge is the 50' cord you are using from the house? Have you checked the voltage in the AC recepticles? What all do you have turned on? You may not be supplying enough juice due to an undersized cord.


Rich and Joyce
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Posted By: Kirk on 02/06/07 06:38pm

A fully charged battery should read 13.6V after allowed to rest. As it discharges it will fall to 10.5V when discharged. That is normal and nothing will change that. When you start to charge a battery, the charge voltage will start at whatever voltage that the battery has at the start and then slowly rise as the battery is charged. When fully charged the voltage will rise to about 14.4V while under charge, but should settle back to 13.6V after about two hours of rest.

If you are charging the battery with the converter for the RV it will charge very slowly for several reasons. First, the max. current that it can supply will be shared with any other 12V loads that may be on inside of the RV. Second, a converter is set to a constant voltage of about 13.5V or so, and can never go higher, although it will read less when the battery is low. If you use an auto battery charger, it will be much more effective for charging since it is not a constant voltage device and was designed for battery charging, while the converter is designed to supply 12V power to loads and not really as a charger. They are different circuits. If you happen to have one of the three stage converters then it will do both pretty well, but most RVs do not have that unless it was added later. Six hours of running the converter should begin to increase the voltage of the battery, but slowly.

There are two other issues here that could play to this problem. The first is that you say you are running this on a 50' extension cord. Very likely if you were to check the voltage to your 120V system with the converter in operation, you would probably find that that long cord had cause you a major voltage drop. When the supply to the converter drops by 10% the output of most of them do also. If the supply were only 100V, the output from the converter would be about 11V or so and it would not charge a battery since it can't push a battery to a voltage that is higher than it supplies.

The second factor might be the meter that you are using. Are you using a hand held meter of good quality, that reading may be accurate, but if you are depending upon a meter that is built into the RV's display panel, then it is probably an analog one and very cheap and not accurate. Those display panel meters are mostly worthless.


Good travelin! ........Kirk
Professional Volunteer
Fulltimer for 11 years,
URL: www.adventure.1tree.net



Posted By: wa8yxm on 02/06/07 07:17pm

There are several posibilities... One is that your converter is a small one and takes a lot of time to charge up the battery

Another is the converter is bad

Another is there is a tripped breaker or blown fuse somewhere

Another is you have your batteries in "Store" mode (disconnected) and the converter thus can not charge them

Another is you have a bad extension cord

And the list goes on


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2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
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Posted By: bacollins on 02/06/07 08:03pm

A fully charged battery with the surface charge removed should read 12.6 volts, 11.9 volts discharged. Best way to test the battery is to load test it. Most chain auto parts stores will do this free of charge. NPI.


2001 Tahoe
2013 Jayco 34XB


Posted By: Rich_in_Florida on 02/06/07 08:15pm

Some rigs with a DC disconnect master switch not only won't power, but they also won't charge when the switch is off (including from the vehicle 12v in a motorhome).


Rich
Tampa, Florida
2009 Winnebago Itasca SunCruiser 35L


Posted By: CA Traveler on 02/06/07 08:46pm

There are some inaccurate posts above. In order to determine the SOC (State of Charge) for a battery it must be at rest for at least 1 hour. At rest means NO loads and NO charging. Under these conditions a fully charged battery will read 12.7V and a 0% charged battery will read 11.9V. If you measure the battery while it’s being charged or under load there is little you can say about the battery SOC.

A battery measuring 13.6V indicates that it’s in float mode and doesn't tell you the SOC. A temperature compensated converter will hold the battery at 13.1V on a very hot day and about 13.8V on a very cold day in float mode. 13.2-13.6V is a good range for a non compensated converter. While charging in bulk or absorb mode the voltage may be up to 14.4V.

If the 12.0V that the OP measured is accurate and the battery was at rest then the SOC is 25%. The actual numbers are:

Open Circuit Voltage VS. State of Charge
12.66V 100%
12.45V 75%
12.24V 50%
12.06V 25%
11.89V 0%

But the OP observed no change which indicates that the battery is not being charged. If the OPs AC voltage is 108V or more then we can eliminate the cord.

Can the OP measure the AC voltage in the rig? BTW a 50’ 12ga cord with good connections should be more than adequate for most converters. Cycle all CB’s that are related to the converter on/off/on. Press firmly. Look for CBs in the main panel and on the converter itself. Check any fuses in the converter. Check converter connections to any remote panels. Also clean and check all battery connections. Also check John’s list above.

Notice that there is only 0.8V change between 0% and 100% SOC. This means that you must have an accurate voltmeter to make the measurements. Most light oriented monitors and analog meters won't be accurate enough. A $30 RS digital voltmeter will be accurate enough.


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Bob



Posted By: Crazy Ray on 02/06/07 08:49pm

Fully charged battery will READ 12.6 NOT 13.6 JMO


RET ARMY 1980,"Tiny" furkid, Class A, 2007 Bounder 35E, Ford V10 w/Steer Safe, 4 6V CROWN,GC235,525W Solar Kyocera, TriStar 45 Controller,Tri-Metric 2020,Yamaha 2400, TOW CRV. Ready Brake. "Living Our Dream" NASCAR #11-18-19-20- LOVE CO,NM,AZ



Posted By: RJCorazza on 02/07/07 04:00am

Sounds like your charger isn't working. With the rig plugged in, check the voltage at the battery. It should be in the 13.6-14.6 range while charging, depending upon the type of charger and SOC of the battery. If you are still reading 12.0v, there is a problem. There are too many variables (manufacturer / model, etc..) to proceed with more specific suggestions, but checking breakers, fuses, and the battery disconnect switch would be some general places to start looking. On my rig the battery disconnect switch will take the batteries out of the circuit and will not charge. The converter will provide all 12v loads.


Posted By: garym114 on 02/07/07 09:12am

Good post CA Traveler. Excellent explanation.
I was going to do the same till got to the bottom and saw yours.


2000 Sea Breeze F53 V10 - CR-V Toad
Some RV batteries live a long and useful life, some are murdered.
Get a Digital Multimeter and Learn How to Use It



Posted By: jmanatee on 02/07/07 08:02pm

According to the Trogan website

For accurate voltage readings, batteries must remain idle (no charging, no discharging) for at least 6 hrs, preferably 24. NOTE: Correct the readings to 80° F: (Add .028 per cell for every 10° above 80° F) (Subtract .028 per cell for every 10° below 80° F)


Charge--- SG -----12V
100%-----1.277-----12.73
90%-----1.258-----12.62
80%-----1.238-----12.50
70%-----1.217-----12.37
60%-----1.195-----12.24
50%-----1.172-----12.10
40%-----1.148-----11.96
30%-----1.124-----11.81
20%-----1.098-----11.66
10%-----1.073-----11.51


Jon

RV Web Site | 50 Night Cross Country Trip
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2008 Monaco Cayman XL 38PBD



Posted By: Retired63 on 02/07/07 08:43pm

I'd be interested on what converter that is and if you have access to the lugs because all you have to do is measure the output and see if its putting out the proper voltage. 12 is not enough. 13.5 to 13.8 depending on who made it would be more like it.
If its not performing like your household charger, it needs replaced or repaired.


“There are hundreds of millions of gun owners in this country, and not one of them will have an accident today. The only misuse of guns comes in environments where there are drugs, alcohol, bad parents, and undisciplined children. Period.” Ted Nugent


Posted By: patchedup on 02/08/07 09:25am

The converter/charger is an iota 45 amp. All fuses have been checked, and breakers reset. The voltage does not rise at the battery end when plugged into shore power,i even pluged the camper into both of my honda 2000s parralled together, thinking the house extension cord might have been causing a problem.Question, If the battery goes dead and the camper is plugged into shore power, can you still operate the 12 volt systems in the camper, even though the charger part is shot.I'm planning a trip in a few days and don't have time to have the dealer check it out. It is still under warranty Thanks!!!!!!!!


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Posted By: Retired63 on 02/08/07 10:15am

If it won't charge your battery, it won't power your DC fuse panel either because it uses the same output for both, at least mine does. Call these guys and I bet they can fix you up before your trip. Bestconverter


Posted By: CA Traveler on 02/08/07 10:41am

Dead battery and shot converter means no 12V power. Take along a auto charger as a backup until you get it fixed.


Posted By: DUTCHTREAT on 02/08/07 10:53am

If your inverter is shot, but your batteries are still good, you can hook an automotive type charger to them and they will power your DC fuse panel. Or use the DC feature of the Honda 2000 instead of a charger if you can't plug in to 110v.


Posted By: gunny357 on 02/08/07 04:30pm

CA Traveler wrote:

There are some inaccurate posts above. In order to determine the SOC (State of Charge) for a battery it must be at rest for at least 1 hour. At rest means NO loads and NO charging. Under these conditions a fully charged battery will read 12.7V and a 0% charged battery will read 11.9V. If you measure the battery while it’s being charged or under load there is little you can say about the battery SOC.

A battery measuring 13.6V indicates that it’s in float mode and doesn't tell you the SOC. A temperature compensated converter will hold the battery at 13.1V on a very hot day and about 13.8V on a very cold day in float mode. 13.2-13.6V is a good range for a non compensated converter. While charging in bulk or absorb mode the voltage may be up to 14.4V.

If the 12.0V that the OP measured is accurate and the battery was at rest then the SOC is 25%. The actual numbers are:

Open Circuit Voltage VS. State of Charge
12.66V 100%
12.45V 75%
12.24V 50%
12.06V 25%
11.89V 0%

But the OP observed no change which indicates that the battery is not being charged. If the OPs AC voltage is 108V or more then we can eliminate the cord.

Can the OP measure the AC voltage in the rig? BTW a 50’ 12ga cord with good connections should be more than adequate for most converters. Cycle all CB’s that are related to the converter on/off/on. Press firmly. Look for CBs in the main panel and on the converter itself. Check any fuses in the converter. Check converter connections to any remote panels. Also clean and check all battery connections. Also check John’s list above.

Notice that there is only 0.8V change between 0% and 100% SOC. This means that you must have an accurate voltmeter to make the measurements. Most light oriented monitors and analog meters won't be accurate enough. A $30 RS digital voltmeter will be accurate enough.


Exactly!

Good advice.

If you are reading battery voltage at the batteries, with the rig plugged in and you are only reading 12 volts. Your charger isn't working. Not a case of batteries being too low to charge, they'd have to be a little lower for that to happen. Check fuses/breakers to be sure the charger is getting AC voltage.

Inverter doesn't charge batteries. It takes DC battery voltage 12, 24, 48 volts, whatever and with the miracle of modern electronics inverts it to AC, usually a modified sine wave to power devices that normally don't work or are not designed to run on DC (Direct Current) microwaves, TV's and air conditioners come to mind although you'd have to have a pretty good sized inverter and a huge battery bank to run air conditoning.


Posted By: MELM on 02/08/07 06:36pm

A few months ago, you were posting about adding another battery.

If you happened to misconnect the battery positive and negative cables while adding a battery, you probably blew two fuses on the back of the Iota 45 amp converter. They are there to protect the converter when the battery is connected wrong.

There will be no output from the converter with the fuses blown.

The fuses are located above the connection for the DC output of converter, and the screws have to be loosened to get the fuses out.

It is probably worth the time to check them...

Mel


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