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 > RV Fuel Issues & Prices - Post 'Em Here!

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eltejano1

Woodville, Texas

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Posted: 05/21/08 03:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Actually, though, the ship idea has many advantages - mobility. endless cooling water (which would make the evironmentalists scream about warming the rivers and killing salmon) - and maybe even cheaper than permanent land plants.

I guess they would necesarily be of small capacity, though.

If we kill the salmon in the Columbia River, we can stock Texas catfish who like warm water :-) :-)

Jack

* This post was edited 05/21/08 03:40pm by eltejano1 *

eltejano1

Woodville, Texas

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Posted: 05/21/08 03:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sid Row Joe wrote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$200.00 a barrel of oil will separate the men from the boys.


Indeed it will, Joe, but who are the "men" and who are the "boys"? Will the "men" be the ones who discipline themselves to protect their family's financial well-being and are concerned about the future of their grandchildren and the economic health of their country?

Or will the truly "manly" thing be to just keep burning-up the highway, thumb their collective noses at the fellows trying to conserve and have a callous and insensitive disregard for their fellow rv'ers who are striving to do the right thing and cut-back?

Jack

stevenicoldeactivate

Hillsboro, Oregon

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Posted: 05/21/08 04:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

...I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a Mathematics geek to a minor degree, or maybe it's because I used to play to stock market "trading" game, or maybe it's just like the oil companies, the politicians, and the so-called experts, I don't know anything except how to speculate.

Using Fibonacci's Golden Mean to forecast price movement, the price per barrel will have it's ups-and-downs; however, it will always trend upward so long as there is demand. This means that sooner-or-later, the price at the pump will grow beyond $10 a gallon; some people think this is coming sooner rather than later; if so, so what!

It's been a life-long dream of mine to have a truck camper that I can go anywhere in. Sure, the old one I have isn't a deluxe RV, but it has heat, a fridge, and a toilet; enough stuff where we can survive in adequate style.

We average between 13.5-15.0 MPG. Say we only got 12 MPG, even if fuel cost $10/gallon, we can travel to a lot of nice places 100 miles or closer to home, round trip for less than $200; expensive, but still doable for a middle class couple; that is, about the same price as a good dinner and a live performance.

Keep on the road, we are! It's worth every penny!

traxtermax

UPSTATE NEW YORK

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Posted: 05/21/08 04:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I wrote a response to a post that is now closed, so I'll eliminate the first half and post the last half.

One person asked why some begrudge big oil's 8-10% profit margin.
Percentages aren’t necessarily relevant to shear numbers and the effect on the economy.

Lets use percentages in an inverse, but comparable way (I hope my math is right):

If it takes 100 times more cyanide than ricin to kill a person, you could say the “poison ratio” (i.e. profit margin) of cyanide to ricin is 100:1 or 10000 percent while the poison margin for ricin to cyanide is 1 percent. Again, percentages are meaningless and they don’t reflect the final outcome— it’s only the end result that counts. Dead is dead.

It seems to me that, if Big Oil’s profits remained at the same numerical level, the U.S. economy would be in the same condition regardless whether their profit margin was 10000% or 1%. Just like poison, the burden of sheer, humongous profit numbers will determine the economic end result, not percentages.

I can understand that profit margins indicate “profit efficiency” but it’s a smoke screen to use them to justify greed-driven, record oil profits that directly affect the cost of living.

There are checks and balances to control greed but since we aren’t talking about localized price gouging, like selling generators during an ice storm, oil profits and speculation control seems illusive. We can’t just let our economy collapse from within and say, “That’s supply and demand; so sad, too bad.” I don’t know the intricate details but something has to give if we want to maintain some semblance of the living standard we once had and prevent it from sliding further into oblivion. Controlling greed should be within government’s control—it was during the ice storm when corporations charged 2-3 times the list price for generators. I don’t think it’s a far stretch to consider that we are in emergency conditions though I don’t think that’s the only criteria for profit controls.

A week or two ago a Syracuse florist got a bid for heating oil used to heat his green house. The bid on a single delivery of thousands of gallons of heating oil was $4.26/gallon and was good for ten days only! The guy was livid and really feels the family business is in jeopardy. This is May and the heating oil demand has spiked! If these prices continue, what’s going to happen during next heating season? The oil situation for many is rapidly becoming a question of survival—not toying around in an RV. People may be mad about gas prices but when they start freezing to death, they’ll really be pissed off and ready for a tea party. Tax payer money will be used to subsidize heating oil again and the rest of us will take a double hit. I think we’re in deep squat.

I realize there is a business side too (“Why shouldn’t we make as much money as we can?”) but will the government allow the uncontested demise, or at lest a serious degradation of our economic system without some sort of response? There certainly must be remedies that are available and can be accomplished within the present governments’ frameworks. If not, politicians better get inventive, fast.

Some say speculators play a necessary role in our economy but fail to explain the specifics. Since speculators don’t produce, store, transport or use the speculative product, how can one say they don’t affect the price of petroleum products? They are in the supply chain unless their speculative product NEVER reaches the market. If it does, they become part of the reason for fuel costs—among other factors.

If speculators are a destructive influence in the U.S. economy (I think they are), why aren’t they a negative influence in other nations as well? Either I don’t appreciate that they are an essential part of our/their financial system or there are other economic factors at work (international p-o-l-i-t-i-c-i-a-n-s “host” speculators—it’s a symbiotic relationship I guess).I guess I can take what comes better if oil profits are contained and speculation eliminated. Then, I can understand supply and demand excuse.

Given the wars, falling dollar, banker/mortgage/wall street greed and buyer stupidity, it’s sad that the average guy is taking the hit for the above jerks.
Because the government didn’t contain these people when it could, the most responsible persons are now paying the debt. Many financially responsible people saved for major purchases and planned for retirement. They were willing to wait and not demand that they “want it all and they want it now”.

Instead of the government feeding the Greedy Boys In The Pin Striped Suits to the wolves, they bailed them out and caused inflation. Financially responsible retirees on a fixed income suffer most and since it takes more dollars to buy the same product; consequently, their living standard declines. Since they no longer offer a service, they can’t barter with their employer or add living costs to their product.

In many ways, the prudent, financially responsible citizens and future generations are paying for the financially irresponsible—and the government sanctioned it. In fact, the government can pay off debt with inflated dollars and, may be in their eyes, that’s good. Me thinks we’re in deep squat, or did I say that before?


That’s how I see it—at least until the next post. [emoticon]

mrjimboalaska

Abilene, Tx. at the moment

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Posted: 05/21/08 05:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

SOOOO...we are asking OPEC to increase production.....then the House passes legislation that says we can sue OPEC......
Now, the people that put us at the mercy of foreign oil are calling the big 5 to task in front of "Commitees" in DC, saying "BIG OIL" is to blame.
Guess what folks, if we limit profit margins for oil producers, we have to do the same for the guy with the "FEED & SEED" down on the corner.
Besides, CAPITALISM, and not SOCIALISM is the name of the game.
IT'S NOT BIG OILS FAULT, IT's the FACT that we have not built a refinery in our country for 35+ years, and LOWERED our Domestic Production.
We have enough OIL under US Controlled land and sea to meet our needs for 60+ years! We just have not allowed domestic refining and drilling....thanks to the Environmentalists Lobbyists in DC.
OIL is not the only answer, but it IS WHAT WE USE NOW, We the people are SUCKERS if we elect even 1 incumbent politician this NOV.
I'M ALL READY FOR A TEXAS TEA PARTY!

The Weekenders

Harvey, North Dakota

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Posted: 05/21/08 07:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mrjimboalaska wrote:

SOOOO...we are asking OPEC to increase production.....then the House passes legislation that says we can sue OPEC......
Now, the people that put us at the mercy of foreign oil are calling the big 5 to task in front of "Commitees" in DC, saying "BIG OIL" is to blame.
Guess what folks, if we limit profit margins for oil producers, we have to do the same for the guy with the "FEED & SEED" down on the corner.
Besides, CAPITALISM, and not SOCIALISM is the name of the game.
IT'S NOT BIG OILS FAULT, IT's the FACT that we have not built a refinery in our country for 35+ years, and LOWERED our Domestic Production.
We have enough OIL under US Controlled land and sea to meet our needs for 60+ years! We just have not allowed domestic refining and drilling....thanks to the Environmentalists Lobbyists in DC.
OIL is not the only answer, but it IS WHAT WE USE NOW, We the people are SUCKERS if we elect even 1 incumbent politician this NOV.
I'M ALL READY FOR A TEXAS TEA PARTY!


You are right on every account!!! The Bakken Formation here in North Dakota is bursting at the seams with oil. There are many places to drill but the enviro wackos won't let us drill here......

[image]


Sad, very sad indeed.


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eltejano1

Woodville, Texas

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Posted: 05/21/08 07:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Blaming the oil companies is absurd. They are private businesses and management is obligated to maximize profits for their stockholders. I watched the chairman of Exxon addressing a committee of the House. He explained that if he did anything less, he would be fired - and rightfully so!

But we also have anti-trust laws, although they haven't been enforced for nearly a century. If there is price collusion, or other criteria for a "trust", then Congress should step-in. Without going to Wikipedia for dates and specifics, the Standard Oil Company (J.D. Rockefeller) was broken-up a century ago. Congress has the constitutional right, under existing legislation, to break-up trusts and ensure competition. But, I fear our dilemma is far too complex today, with the global economy, for such simplistic measures to work.

It always goes back to the same thing - quit buying it!! Maybe that's impossible, but nothing else will bring down the price. Nothing! Obviously, hard as it is to accept, our rv'ing needs to be the first to go. Painful but true! The reason oil has risen by $10/barrel in the last week is that we are still INCREASING our consumption! What message does that send to the markets? Only one - "we're not charging enough for our product. Keep raising the price until we encounter market resistance." As long as there's no resistance in the market, the price will continue to rise. Econ 1A!

Jack

eltejano1

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Posted: 05/21/08 07:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Weekender:

Don't you think we should at least preserve a few reserves for plastics, chemicals, fabrics, paint and all the other products we use petroleum for? Trying to drill our way out of this, draining every last drop of oil out of the ground, might make it a LITTLE easier for you and I to go on vacation this summer but all it would do is put-off the inevitable, and even worse, crisis a few years down the road. These little pockets of oil would have minimal effect on prices. We have to wean ourselves from it.

While I don't associate myself with the "green" movement, we should certainly consider environmental factors to some extent. We shouldn't destroy all wild habitat for the sake of satisfying our addiction to petroleum! But, like all addictions, it's hard to break. Scapegoating groups - greenies, speculators, oil executives, foreign potentates - isn't going to solve the problem.

The solution lies within ourselves - park the rv and hang-up the toys, get a little car, make the kids ride the bus, share a ride to work, let the grass get a little longer before you mow, drive the car as slowly as possible, get together with neighbors and go shopping in one vehicle, and on and on.

Jack

The Weekenders

Harvey, North Dakota

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Posted: 05/21/08 07:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

eltejano1 wrote:

Weekender:


While I don't associate myself with the "green" movement, we should certainly consider environmental factors to some extent. We shouldn't destroy all wild habitat for the sake of satisfying our addiction to petroleum! But, like all addictions, it's hard to break. Scapegoating groups - greenies, speculators, oil executives, foreign potentates - isn't going to solve the problem.

The solution lies within ourselves - park the rv and hang-up the toys, get a little car, make the kids ride the bus, share a ride to work, let the grass get a little longer before you mow, drive the car as slowly as possible, get together with neighbors and go shopping in one vehicle, and on and on.

Jack


I respectfully disagree with you on almost all accounts, actuallly all. JMO

eltejano1

Woodville, Texas

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Posted: 05/21/08 08:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I realize mine is a voice in the wilderness. Most americans are not cutting back and gas consumption is actually increasing - and will continue to do so as long as we are willing to pay the price.

No matter what we do, the price is never going to come down anyway. The most we can hope for is to stabilize it with more modest, incremental increases. This situation now - $10/barrel increase in a week - has to be checked somehow.

Sooner or later, everyone will be cutting back. We don't know yet at just what price americans will quit buying so much of it. It doesn't seem to be bothering most people yet - but at some point, I think you will agree - $7.00, $10.00, $15.00 - they will be forced to cut back bigtime When it reaches that point, the price will flatten but probably not come-down much. Wouldn't you rather stabilize it at $4.00 than $10.00?

A lot of people - present company excluded - just can't face these realities and have their heads buried in the sand. But they are going to get kicked in the rump pretty soon - and then watch the stuff hit the fan!

Jack

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