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 > Alex and Julie's Roamps toUtah part III

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silversand

Montreal

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Joined: 09/12/2004

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Posted: 08/07/08 12:23pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

OTOH, I believe some of us have laid the groundwork for a more simplistic (admittedly opinion-based) approach by way of our prior comments and cautions. Something like this:


This is closer to what I had in mind. The "potential for damage: low, med, high" rating is purely qualitative; I think that getting into a deeper quantitative study of the Big 3's suspension, at fixed lifts, with precisely the same under-gear would be an undertaking that would be nightmarish (exacerbated by potential of a dozen or more tracking/approach tacks to turns and climbs...all over infinitely-varying trail surface conditions!)

Quote:

- SRW truck with pop-up TC ... Can do the Shafer Trail and the White Rim Trail in its entirety (weather permitting). Potential for damage = low. Previous off-road driving experience a bonus.


...great...so I propose that I generate a cartographic representation of the entire Shafer and WRT, differentiating both by color poly-lines, set within the boundaries of the Canyonlands polygon (of which I have the actual geographically-referenced shapefile). The interesting thing here is that Forum members can visit the Forum to see the differentiation of the 2 trails, without having to purchase a book to do preliminary planning.

Quote:

- SRW truck with smaller/lighter weight hard-sided TC ... Can do the Shafer Trail and the first half of the White Rim Trail (up to White Crack). 2nd half of WRT potentially doable with care. Potential for damage = low to moderate. Previous off-road driving experience desirable.


So here, I'd produce a map with directional polyline symbology indicating the trail up to White Crack in one color, and the rest of the WRT in another (simple, but effective). If reference points of caution exist (you may have GPSed several, or made a mental note of said?), these can be translated to me (as a digital sketch from some basic WRT map), and I can include them as POINT symbology on the map, too...

Quote:

- DRW truck with larger/heavier hard-sided TC ... Shafer Trail questionable (suggest Potash Road entry instead). First half of WRT is doable with care. 2nd half of WRT (after White Crack) not recommended. Potential for damage = moderate to high (if 2nd half of WRT is attempted). Previous off-road driving experience a must.


...here again, a directional polyline symbol can be color-coded to represent all 3 TC types, transitioning into another color translating to 2 TC types, then a 3rd color code to represent the only TC class capable of that last leg of the trail (I think that the entire map can be done this way...for simplicity?)

c.traveler2: I'm heading over to your link to read the Unimog data! I hope you don't mind us brain-storming all over your post?!? [emoticon]


Silver
2004 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4x4 6.0L Ext/LB Tow Package 4L80E Michelin AT2s| Outfitter Caribou

DonCurley

La Sal, Utah

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Joined: 12/27/2006

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Posted: 08/07/08 01:20pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JAXFL wrote:

I am guessing that pulling a 34 foot TT along the same path you guys took would be a little tight is some of the spot?
Naw, I don't see any problem with that. You may even make it to the bottom faster with that set-up. [emoticon]


-'07 Dodge 3500/QC/SB/SRW/4x4/6.7L CTD/6-spd auto/35" Toyo MT's/Ride-Rite air bags/RS9000XL shocks
-'07 Apex 8 fully optioned w/220W solar/2 T-145's/2KW Prosine/Honda EU2000i/Tundra fridge/AC/etc
-'00 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4x4, highly modified w/5.9L Magnum V8


DonCurley

La Sal, Utah

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Joined: 12/27/2006

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Posted: 08/07/08 01:42pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

silversand wrote:

Quote:

OTOH, I believe some of us have laid the groundwork for a more simplistic (admittedly opinion-based) approach by way of our prior comments and cautions. Something like this:


This is closer to what I had in mind. The "potential for damage: low, med, high" rating is purely qualitative; I think that getting into a deeper quantitative study of the Big 3's suspension, at fixed lifts, with precisely the same under-gear would be an undertaking that would be nightmarish (exacerbated by potential of a dozen or more tracking/approach tacks to turns and climbs...all over infinitely-varying trail surface conditions!)

Quote:

- SRW truck with pop-up TC ... Can do the Shafer Trail and the White Rim Trail in its entirety (weather permitting). Potential for damage = low. Previous off-road driving experience a bonus.


...great...so I propose that I generate a cartographic representation of the entire Shafer and WRT, differentiating both by color poly-lines, set within the boundaries of the Canyonlands polygon (of which I have the actual geographically-referenced shapefile). The interesting thing here is that Forum members can visit the Forum to see the differentiation of the 2 trails, without having to purchase a book to do preliminary planning.

Quote:

- SRW truck with smaller/lighter weight hard-sided TC ... Can do the Shafer Trail and the first half of the White Rim Trail (up to White Crack). 2nd half of WRT potentially doable with care. Potential for damage = low to moderate. Previous off-road driving experience desirable.


So here, I'd produce a map with directional polyline symbology indicating the trail up to White Crack in one color, and the rest of the WRT in another (simple, but effective). If reference points of caution exist (you may have GPSed several, or made a mental note of said?), these can be translated to me (as a digital sketch from some basic WRT map), and I can include them as POINT symbology on the map, too...

Quote:

- DRW truck with larger/heavier hard-sided TC ... Shafer Trail questionable (suggest Potash Road entry instead). First half of WRT is doable with care. 2nd half of WRT (after White Crack) not recommended. Potential for damage = moderate to high (if 2nd half of WRT is attempted). Previous off-road driving experience a must.


...here again, a directional polyline symbol can be color-coded to represent all 3 TC types, transitioning into another color translating to 2 TC types, then a 3rd color code to represent the only TC class capable of that last leg of the trail (I think that the entire map can be done this way...for simplicity?)

c.traveler2: I'm heading over to your link to read the Unimog data! I hope you don't mind us brain-storming all over your post?!? [emoticon]
Sounds like a plan Silver!

BTW, my wife and I will be doing Ophir Pass (11789 ft) near Telluride and then the Alpine Loop (Engineer Pass at 12800 ft and Cinnamon Pass at 12640 ft) between Silverton and Lake City in the San Juan Mountains in southwestern Colorado starting on Saturday or Sunday. I don't know if anyone has done these high-altitude 4x4 routes and passes with a camper on board before, but we're going to give it a shot. We'll try to keep an eye out for the same "rig versus difficulty" type of info we've been trading posts on for the WRT (as it seems like a lot of folks are also interested in the Alpine Loop). Of course, my first priority will be keeping the rubber side down in preference to field data collection activities. [emoticon]

Don

c.traveler2

Moreno Valley,Ca.

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Joined: 09/04/2004

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Posted: 08/07/08 02:23pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Silver, I'm happy with the way this post has gone, information on TC's and the backcountry is sorely missing. Here's some spec's on my truck...2007 F-250 supercab,4x4, long bed, camper package,suspension is stock with air lift bags, tires are B.F. Goodrich Rugged Trail T/A 265/70R17 load range E and one Lance 815 extent cabover with air conditioning. On this trip my rig weighted in at 10,580 lbs, certified, this puts me over my GWVR of 10,000 and under for GAWR for front and rear.

* This post was edited 08/08/08 12:01pm by c.traveler2 *


2007 F-250 4x4 /6.0 PSD/ext cab/ 2020 Bunduvry

Lance 815/ 85 watts solar panel (sold)

Travelingman2 Photo Website
Truck Camper Trip Reports 3.0
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Alex and Julie's Travels Blog


silversand

Montreal

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Joined: 09/12/2004

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Posted: 08/08/08 06:29am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

c.traveler2:

Excellent! I'll post your rig info to Technical area of Trip Reports. This info would be extremely important for those with hardsides trying to evaluate the very track you had done. Perfect.

Quote:

BTW, my wife and I will be doing Ophir Pass (11789 ft) near Telluride and then the Alpine Loop (Engineer Pass at 12800 ft and Cinnamon Pass at 12640 ft) between Silverton and Lake City in the San Juan Mountains in southwestern Colorado starting on Saturday or Sunday. I don't know if anyone has done these high-altitude 4x4 routes and passes with a camper on board before, but we're going to give it a shot. We'll try to keep an eye out for the same "rig versus difficulty" type of info we've been trading posts on for the WRT (as it seems like a lot of folks are also interested in the Alpine Loop). Of course, my first priority will be keeping the rubber side down in preference to field data collection activities.


Don:

I've been buried knee-deep in the USGS ArcINFO GIS files from their public-domain data server. I have extracted better than 1-meter quads of the entire northern half of WRT (with accuracy control-points), and have compared their polyline transportation layer over it; my assessment:

-the 1:24 000 scale transportation polyline layer produced by the USGS is absolutely terrible (!!) It was in my assessment only 30% conformed to the actual WRT track at 1:24,000 (I'm actually doing this project at 1:8,000!!). I don't know if they used a generalization algorithm over their base layer (they shouldn't have, digitizing at 1:24,000!!) or not, but I'll have to completely re-do their work. In fact, I've already completed about 40% the the re-creation of this section of roads (actually, WRT and Shafer)...should be finished sometime early next week. This new derivative shapefile will be proprietary to this project (you and I and anyone else helping with this project).

We'll talk further when you get back!!

Have a super expedition, and I know that you'll be posting a TR on your return [emoticon]

Cheers,
Silver-

*Any way you could GPS your entire trek, and export the file from your GPS, and send to me?

DonCurley

La Sal, Utah

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Joined: 12/27/2006

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Posted: 08/08/08 08:12am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

silversand wrote:


Don:

I've been buried knee-deep in the USGS ArcINFO GIS files from their public-domain data server. I have extracted better than 1-meter quads of the entire northern half of WRT (with accuracy control-points), and have compared their polyline transportation layer over it
So, I assume that means you can achieve greater than 1-meter resolution for the northern half of the WRT using the USGS ArcINFO GIS files? If so, that's great.

Quote:

my assessment:

-the 1:24 000 scale transportation polyline layer produced by the USGS is absolutely terrible (!!) It was in my assessment only 30% conformed to the actual WRT track at 1:24,000 (I'm actually doing this project at 1:8,000!!). I don't know if they used a generalization algorithm over their base layer (they shouldn't have, digitizing at 1:24,000!!) or not, but I'll have to completely re-do their work.
Ouch!

Quote:

In fact, I've already completed about 40% the the re-creation of this section of roads (actually, WRT and Shafer)...should be finished sometime early next week. This new derivative shapefile will be proprietary to this project (you and I and anyone else helping with this project).
So does this mean that if we tell some one else, we have to kill them? [emoticon]

Quote:

We'll talk further when you get back!!

Have a super expedition, and I know that you'll be posting a TR on your return [emoticon]
Thanks, and I do plan to do a TR when we get back.

Quote:

Cheers,
Silver-

*Any way you could GPS your entire trek, and export the file from your GPS, and send to me?
Unfortunately no. When I joined the ranks of the unemployed, our plan to get a high-end Kenwood in-dash DVD unit coupled with a Garmin KNA-G510 NAV/GPS system had to be put on hold. I have a hand-held Garmin GPSmap 76S unit, however, we will just be using that on a infrequent basis when outside of our truck.

silversand

Montreal

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Posted: 08/08/08 08:25am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

So does this mean that if we tell some one else, we have to kill them?


...that depends... However, I think perhaps not [emoticon]

By proprietary to those who contribute and actually work with this project means that IF the polyline shape file and accompanying intel/data are solicited by a trail guide publisher, the proceeds would be split among the contributors [emoticon]

Quote:

I have a hand-held Garmin GPSmap 76S unit, however, we will just be using that on a infrequent basis...


OK, this is perfect! I had a group of PhD student I was instructing on GPS/data collection around a newly-created marine protected area in a very remote Philippine island group (dangerous rough waters and terrible precipitation sometimes side-tracked the data collection tasks; complicating this was the underwater tracking of certain sea animals using miniature telemetry transmitters; also collecting terrestrial cultural POIs), and they were concerned that prolonged use of the GPS would fill up it's memory with dense polyline recordings prematurely, before the day's tasks were complete. So, I taught them how to record (on paper) key Latitude/Longitude readings right off the screen of the hand-held GPSs they were using (with a written description of data at the point); they would then e-mail me the Lat/Lon coords, and I would translate them into a GPS/GIS georeferenced file(!)

...so, what I'm saying is: if possible (but don't put yourself in harm's way), record with pencil/paper the start coords and elevation of the trail, a few points of interest (POIs) along it, then the exit point (if not the same as entry point)...

silversand

Montreal

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Posted: 08/08/08 08:55am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Don:

I was checking out the GPS unit you have...

It comes with a serial PC interface cable! This is excellent. You can install the freeware: GPS Utility (ive got V 4.04.0), and set the software up to grab the data recorded in your Garmin by going to:

SETUP>, select: Garmin, Com port 1, Baud rate 4800, Transfer 'all tables', Max Clock error: 999, GPS sample time: 2 seconds, NMEA send options: 5 decimal places, 100 mSecs.

That's it. If ever you wanted to do complex stuff like generating real GIS shapefiles, I could instruct you (via Skype telephone; you have an free IP telephone account for global free PC~PC phonecalls? Send it via PM)

On edit: the GPS Utility (most recent build) is here-->

DonCurley

La Sal, Utah

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Joined: 12/27/2006

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Posted: 08/08/08 09:22am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

silversand wrote:

Don:

I was checking out the GPS unit you have...

It comes with a serial PC interface cable! This is excellent. You can install the freeware: GPS Utility (ive got V 4.04.0), and set the software up to grab the data recorded in your Garmin by going to:

SETUP>, select: Garmin, Com port 1, Baud rate 4800, Transfer 'all tables', Max Clock error: 999, GPS sample time: 2 seconds, NMEA send options: 5 decimal places, 100 mSecs.

That's it. If ever you wanted to do complex stuff like generating real GIS shapefiles, I could instruct you (via Skype telephone; you have an free IP telephone account for global free PC~PC phonecalls? Send it via PM)

On edit: the GPS Utility (most recent build) is here-->

Silver,

First off, is the above needed for taking and recording infrequent location fixes, or is this more aimed at running my GPS full-time during the entire trip? If the latter, it's not going to work, as I lose satellite reception/acquisition inside the cab of my truck and I don't have a remote antenna. Let me know.

Thanks,
Don

TwoMaineiacs

Near Freeport, Maine

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Joined: 04/08/2006

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Posted: 08/08/08 11:05am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Silver - don't know if this would be of any interest, but I might still have the GPS trail for our trip through Canyonlands. Of course it doesn't include WRT or Schaefer but would have the upper roads. If so, let me know and I'll look on the laptop. I didn't keep them all but would be glad to look.

The track is for DeLorme Street Atlas.

Anne


2011 Chalet Double Slide on a 2013 F-450 Diesel DRW
On the Road Again from Rural Maine
Our travel blog with photos


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