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jefe 4x4

West Slope, Northern Sierra Nevada

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Posted: 09/20/10 11:37am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dadwolf2 wrote:

jefe 4x4 wrote:

No air bags, at least for off-road. Why? The same reason you disconnect the rear anti-sway bar for off-road. They both rebound, propelling you in an equal and opposite direction.

[image]
I thought air bags would not be the best choice for off-road because they don't have as much suspension travel(although Carli's long travel air bags might be the exception). Doesn't any coil, leaf, or air bag rebound in an opposite direction?

Dad, (jefe here) leaf springs are the 'dumbest' of the lot having the least rebound of the springs. Lots of friction here. With airbags and coil springs you get a lot of recoil, especially when they're overloaded and the spring rate is higher.

That's the purpose of the shock absorber to control that rebound action. Don't serious 4x4's disconnect sway bars for increased suspension travel...I believe they call it articulation?

Shocks are actually dampeners. They can slow down and spread the shock around to other parts of the suspension, but control doesn't come to mind. The paradox here is when you do a small lift you usually forfeit some articulation just to get more rig clearance.


Jefe, how much does your loaded camper weigh and what is the Dana 80 + power loc?

jefe here. The rig weighs just under 10,000 lbs. When unloaded, it's about 7300 lbs. When the camper is on, most of the added weight goes right over the rear axle. That's why the super singles on the rear with 3750 lb. capacity. Power Loc is the best of the wet clutch type limited slips. It's virtually the only one that will hold up under all that weight. The secret is cone shaped clutches that apply a lot of force under loading. It is tightly preloaded producing a chirping of the inside tire, when you accelerate in a tight turn from a stop, unloaded. Dodge used this LSD in the 70's into the 90's in heavy duty applications including trucks for the military.

Unfortunately I don't think there is anybody making a locking diff for Dodges newer 11.5 AAM axles. [emoticon] ARB is talking about it but wouldn't be my first choice.

AAM claims they have a factory installed limited slip diff for their products on their website. No actual locking diff. I have yet to talk to or hear of anyone that has one installed. Are you sure you have the difference between 'locking' and 'limited slip' diffs affixed?


Do some camper hold downs have built in "give" so it's not too rigid to the truck frame/bed? Just wondering how much is too tight or too loose is those offroad situations.


jefe writes: Most front tie-downs have stiff coil springs inside the barrel. The rear tie-downs rely on the flexing of the rear bumper to give some give. For regular road-bound TC's it's fine. It is not a good situation for XTC's. The Dodge rr bumper holds up the best for this. Ford and GM are too flexible. The best is a three point flat bed that has the single pivot on either the front of the 'tray' or the rear, with a two firm point attachment fore or aft.

regards, as always, jefe


'01.5 Dodge 2500 4x4, CTD, Qcab, SB, NV5600, 241HD, 4.10's, Dana 70/TruTrac; Dana 80/ TruTrac, Spintec hub conversion, H.D. susp, 315/75R16's on 7.5" and 10" wide steel wheels, Vulcan big line, Warn M15K winch '98 Lance Lite 165s, 8' 6" X-cab, 200w Solar

jimh406

Western MT

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Posted: 09/20/10 12:03pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'm not so sure about XTC. Aren't those just normal forest service roads?


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dadwolf2

Henderson,NV

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Posted: 09/20/10 05:42pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jefe 4x4 wrote:

AAM claims they have a factory installed limited slip diff for their products on their website. No actual locking diff. I have yet to talk to or hear of anyone that has one installed. Are you sure you have the difference between 'locking' and 'limited slip' diffs affixed?


I wasn't clear. The 11.5 AAM axle in my truck is a factory installed limited slip. I would love to have a selectable locking differential like Eaton's E-locker but it's not available nor is any other that I know of. IMO, a locking rear differential is almost as good and sometimes better than many stock 4x4's.


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whazoo

Idahome

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Posted: 09/20/10 07:34pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jimh425 wrote:

I'm not so sure about XTC. Aren't those just normal forest service roads?


Hey Jim. I'll agree that through the camera and all, things always seem to look tame. You can't possibly see the 3 and 4 point turns on the switchbacks with a complete cliff on the downside. Or maybe if you were in a jeep they would be easy. But in a 10,000 lb vehicle with limited views and a top heavy COG it adds a different dimension. I'm sure you already know that. And the key word to 4wheeling in a tc is slow, as in like a snail. It did seem Xtreme at the time, and I saw Jefe's massive rear tire hanging half off into space at least 3 times. There is no room for error on those roads in a tc. I know others have experienced the same roads and would tell you the same thing. All these roads come with a warning.
[image]

[image]

Nemo667

Louisiana

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Posted: 09/20/10 07:55pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Nice write up jefe' thanks for posting.

We didnt air down while we were on the White Rim with Don Curley and Steve_in_29. Felt like we needed the tires aired up to handle the weight...i'll try'em aired down next time.


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dadwolf2

Henderson,NV

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Posted: 09/20/10 09:08pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

That picture with Jefe coming down the hill looks like a true pucker moment to me! [emoticon]

jefe 4x4

West Slope, Northern Sierra Nevada

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Posted: 09/20/10 11:22pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Jim,
Actually, most of the 'roads' we were on in the San Juan's were originally mining roads for ore wagons and later motorized trucks. I hate to burst your bubble but there was nothing unextreme about them. The boon to the jeep tourist industry in the area prompted counties to take on the roads as county roads so the county bulldozer will plow them open in June just for the tourist trade. They don't do much improving, just snow removal. Plus, this Sept. they had monoonal rains a couple weeks before we got there and there were a lot of wash-ins. Virtually every 'road' we were on was classified as a jeep road on maps. I don't think they were ever Forest Service Roads, as there is no forest at that elevation.
I do know this: my little Lance was as big a camper as I would ever want to have navigating those trails. As the trails got worse, the Lance on my back kept looking bigger and bigger. Perspective is everything. My camera battery krapped out on the third day, so I don't have all the pics I need to do a write up.. however, Doug, The Whaz and I are doing a picture swap, so I'll have plenty of incriminating photos for the spiel. The Whazinator rounding the bend;
[image]
Only one time did my pulse palpatate a little on this trip. It was on the last switchback dogleg about 100 vertical feet before California Pass. This would be above 13,000 feet. Having the shortest wheelbase of the 3 rigs, I figured I could just turn and grind up and around thru the rocks. I cut a little too soon. I didn't like the looks of the drop off ahead. I thought that Clackin' Cummins, turbo a-flamin' in lo/lo (54:1), various wheels touching the ground, was going to pull the frame apart.
O.K., I did pull my shorts back out after the turn.
As it works out, you NEVER have a pic of those times, so, you're right, it looks pretty tame when it's convenient to take pics.
regards, as always, jefe

* This post was edited 09/21/10 05:37pm by jefe 4x4 *

JoeChiOhki

Sauvie Island, OR

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Posted: 09/21/10 12:35am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It all looks knucking futzed to me..... I wouldn't even want to take my camper up those, maybe something with caterpillar tracks, but not a pickup.


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FarcticOx

NH or somewhere else

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Posted: 09/21/10 03:43am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Glad to see that you guys are staying limber. [emoticon]

Great post, thanks.


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saltamontes

la, ca

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Posted: 09/21/10 10:12am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

some great pictures.. looks like "Jefe and the Waz" are running sans/tucked jacks for clearance.

loosening tie-downs can be a good idea, but make sure the camper's extra movement will not damage the truck's bed or the camper.

cool thread


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