MeandMyLabs
Clinton, Illinois
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I am not wanting to start a generator brand discussion here. I own 2 generators...Yamaha 2400is and Champion 4000 and I camp quite a bit on my own property using generator power as my only electricity source. I would like to use my Progressive Power management system to ensure clean power but it will not release the power because of an open ground condition.
I have read where using a plug adapter with a bonded connection will work but I have also read where it increase the chance of electrical shock on wet ground. I would really appreciate additional discussion relating to this topic from those "electrical engineering" folks with knowledge on this topic.![[emoticon]](http://www.rv.net/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
Thank you in advance for your help.
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VintageRacer
Tatamagouche Nova Scotia
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Far better to have ground bonded to neutral in the RV, and if you have a wet ground issue drive a stake in the ground and tie the RV to ground. The bond must always be at the source, so I do it at the generator. I can do it with a plug in one of the outlets that just has neutral and ground bonded together. There must only be one place that ground and neutral are bonded, so any transfer switch should switch neutral, and there should not be any bond in a panel. I have never gotten a satisfactory explanation of why some generators (not all) don't bond ground and neutral. I do know that there are issues with this when you use a generator to power up a house, since a house will have neutral and ground bonded in the main panel, usually.
That's my opinion.
Brian
* This post was
edited 01/29/12 06:50am by VintageRacer *
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MeandMyLabs
Clinton, Illinois
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Brian,
Thank you for your response. If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying to use a bonded adapter in one of the outlets on the generator and install a ground rod at my site. Is this correct? And if so, can I use a 15 amp bonded adapter even when plugging into the 30 amp receptacle on my Champion?
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vermilye
Oswego, NY, USA
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For an article on when bonding a generator is required (and grounding) check This OSHA Letter and this PDF by John “Grizzy” Grzywacz.
An adapter that ties one side of a 120v generator to the frame of the generator is sometimes necessary because most power management systems look for the neutral/ground bond to determine that there is a overall system ground. Be careful making the tie inside your RV - some inverters will be damaged by a neutral/ground bond.
Although you can install a ground rod at the generator, it is a waste of time. For it to meet NEC requirements is would likely need to be 8' long, completely driven into the ground. In my area it requires 2 8' rods 6' apart. Do you really want to do this each time you use the generator? Read the articles & they explain why there are good reasons not to ground a generator...
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renoman69
Edmonton Alberta
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Pics by exrocketscientist.
![[image]](http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss74/renoman69/img1392m.jpg)
![[image]](http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss74/renoman69/img1390ih.jpg)
![[image]](http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss74/renoman69/img1394m.jpg)
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MeandMyLabs
Clinton, Illinois
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Thank you for your response vermilye. First of all, let me clarify that my intent is to create the bond between the generator and my power management system by making an adapter which would in effect cause a bonded connection on a very short extension cord. From there, by plugging in my Progressive Power management system, I think it will not detect errors (open ground) and function correctly, thus monitoring my trailer for clean power etc.
Installing and using a ground rod(s) on my 120 acre property is not a major issue if needed. I of course will not be wanting to do this elsewhere, but I am usually camping with shore power in the campgrounds. The PDF link you supplied is very interesting reading and definitely generates some additional thoughts about grounding.
My property is primarily for hunting purposes and we are there during all different types of weather and conditions and truly do not want a system which is unsafe.
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MeandMyLabs
Clinton, Illinois
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Thank you renoman69 for the pics.
This was my initial thought from what I was reading, however, on my Champion, I will be using the RV 30 amp receptacle and I was not sure if bonding with the 15 amp plug when drawing more than 20 amp would cause an issue with the receptacle. I am now leaning toward making a short (8" approx.) 30 amp extension cord from the generator with the bonding connection and then plugging in the power management system to that. Any thoughts?
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renoman69
Edmonton Alberta
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MeandMyLabs wrote:Thank you renoman69 for the pics.
This was my initial thought from what I was reading, however, on my Champion, I will be using the RV 30 amp receptacle and I was not sure if bonding with the 15 amp plug when drawing more than 20 amp would cause an issue with the receptacle. I am now leaning toward making a short (8" approx.) 30 amp extension cord from the generator with the bonding connection and then plugging in the power management system to that. Any thoughts?
MeandMyLabs, You're asking the wrong guy. An electrician I am not. I used this "adapter" to solve the problem of my EMS shutting down the power but I only have a Honda 2000 and don't run 30amps. There are lots of guys on here who can help you out though just wait until they get out of bed this Sunday morning.
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ktmrfs
Portland, Oregon
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I do exactly as renoman69 does. Works fine and as best I interpret NEC codes around bonding, this is ok by code to bond at the generator since it is the primary source.
When talking to Progressive industries they outlined 3 ways to address the non bonded neutral.
1) use ground rods per NEC
2) Internally modify the generator to bond neutral and ground
3) make an external neutral/ground bond
3) seemed the easiest.
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Wayne Dohnal
Bend, OR.
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Quote:I have never gotten a satisfactory explanation of why some generators (not all) don't bond ground and neutral. It's because there are some significant safety advantages when the bonding isn't in place. There are also different advantages when the bond is in place. If there is no electrical failure anywhere, either way is safe. When a failure occurs, in some cases bonded is better, in other cases unbonded is better. It depends on the type of failure. The portable generator manufacturers have apparently decided that the greater advantage is with unbonded. This also makes for an easy hookup to a building for backup power, because of the building having a neutral-ground bond already in place.
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