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Topic: Are synthetic oils worth the money?

Posted By: Tennessee_Nomad on 02/03/13 09:21am

I change oil regularly. That said, I was wondering how many of you run synthetic oil in your tow vehicles? Is there a lot of difference in wear and tear on your engine between a good premium motor oil and a synthetic? Especially with higher mileage vehicles... ~80,000 mi.

Post moved from TT Forum to Tow Vehicle Forum

Moderator - TT Forum


* This post was edited 02/03/13 12:50pm by an administrator/moderator *


Posted By: gbopp on 02/03/13 09:31am

Synthetic oil Posts

Synthetic Oils


Posted By: wmoses on 02/03/13 09:44am

Tennessee_Nomad wrote:

I change oil regularly. That said, I was wondering how many of you run synthetic oil in your tow vehicles? Is there a lot of difference in wear and tear on your engine between a good premium motor oil and a synthetic? Especially with higher mileage vehicles... ~80,000 mi.

Depend on what you mean by 'regularly'. Regular oil changes every 20,000 miles might not be good enough. [emoticon]

I use synthetic oil in my truck which sees oil changes every 5,000 miles or whenever the oil monitor complains, whichever comes first. Synthetic oil is demonstrably better than conventional oils especially at temp extremes, and since I tow with my truck, common sense suggests that the engine would be happier with the synthetic.

My oil of choice is Mobil One 5W-30 bought at Walmart when on sale. The price is reasonable and I can afford it. I have even put in Walmart synthetic when an oil change was imperative and the price at the time for Mobil One was not favorable. What I won't afford is engine breakdown because oil related causes.

Each to his own. And don't forget regular transmission and differential oil changes also. Gotta flush out the metal grindings.


Regards,
Wayne
2014 Flagstaff Super Lite 27RLWS Emerald Ed. | Equal-i-zer 1200/12,000 4-point WDH
2010 GMC Sierra 1500 SLE 5.3L 6-speed auto | K&N Filter | Hypertech Max Energy tune | Prodigy P3
_



Posted By: Fishinghat on 02/03/13 09:58am

Consumer' Union, puslisher of Consumer's Reports, tested engine oils a number of years ago and found no significant difference or performance between synthetic or regular oil, or brands. They also found no benefit between three and six thousand miles between changes.

However, with the price of oil so cheap, why take a chance. A new engine is a whole lot more expensive.


Holiday Rambler Navigator DP, Hummer, and Honda VT1100C Shadow



Posted By: 2oldman on 02/03/13 10:03am

Excellent gbopp.


Posted By: ktmrfs on 02/03/13 10:09am

I had oil analysis done on my duramax and older mercedes car several times with both synthetic and dino oils using a 10,000 mile change interval. Neither has mfg requirements for synthetic, if they did I would only run synthetic. Analyis was done by Blackstone labs with TBN (total base number) test as well. Duramax was primarily towing. In all cases the oil analysis indicated no issues and the additive package still had life left. Wear and other indications were basicaly identical between dino and synthetics. The analysis results stated 10,000 was a conservative change interval for my driving conditions and suggested if I wanted that I could try going 15,000 miles between changes and analysis done at that mileage to evaluate results. So I stayed at 10K and based on this analysis, doesn't seem like synthetic is providing any additional benefits for MY driving conditions. But I did stay with synthetic in the truck. Your results may be different.

My mercedes now is at 150K miles and doesn't use any oil between changes (10K), truck is at 120K miles and since broken in under constant towing may use 1 quart between changes (10K).

It's easy and inexpensive to have an analysis done. Do one with synthetic and one with dino for your normal change interval and decide.

* This post was edited 02/03/13 10:31am by ktmrfs *


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Posted By: PapPappy on 02/03/13 10:09am

I'm also from the old school that says that you should be changing the oil between 2500-5000 miles. And more often, if you are "abusing" the vehicle.

I use a synthetic in our MH, because it gets less use, and I feel that there is less chance for contamination (but that's just me[emoticon]). I only recently put synthetic in my personal vehicles, because I wasn't paying attention at the store[emoticon]
I was looking at the weight, and price (mis-marked) and didn't realize it was synthetic until I got home. Oh well, it's not like it's bad for the car, and I'll probably just change it at 5K, so the price difference will balance out too.

It really comes down to what you want to do.....If you drive about 5K or so miles with your RV, then maybe the synthetic is a good idea, since you can get away with just a single oil change each year. If you drive less, then maybe just a "dino" oil changed each year will be fine too.

There are claims that the synthetic will also increase gas mileage (because it runs smoother), but I don't know if you would really see that, as day to day driving will change mileage all the time....and over 5K miles, it would be hard to notice a couple of extra mpg.


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Posted By: harold1946 on 02/03/13 10:16am

I have never heard of an engine failure that was caused by the type of oil being used.
Pretty much like saying Mobile gasoline is better than any other major brand.


Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer Sport toad


Posted By: n7bsn on 02/03/13 10:28am

Tennessee_Nomad wrote:

I change oil regularly. That said, I was wondering how many of you run synthetic oil in your tow vehicles? Is there a lot of difference in wear and tear on your engine between a good premium motor oil and a synthetic? Especially with higher mileage vehicles... ~80,000 mi.


RTFM? Does your Ford manual say regular or synth? I know the manual for my 01, 07 and 08 Fords all say synth.
I also change oil at the manufacturers recommended period. I figure they designed it and wrote the spec. They certainly know the system better them some back-yard mechanic.


2008 F350SD V10 with an 2012 Arctic Fox 29-5E
When someone tells you to buy the same rig they own, listen, they might be right. When they tell you to buy a different rig then they own, really pay attention, they probably know something you don't.


Posted By: prairie camper on 02/03/13 11:01am

Synthetic Shell rotella T-6 cummins 6.7 TD. World of difference in the winter for starting. Next is trans and the diff this summer.


Posted By: Dtaylor on 02/03/13 11:22am

Oil does not wear out. It does become contaminated with metals from engine wear and fuel that may enter around worn piston rings. I have friends who only change the filter every 5-6K miles and never have mechanical problems related to oil. Now, would I do that in mine; absolutely not. Unless I am doing a lot of heavy towing, I change mine about every 10K using synthetic.


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Posted By: Happy_Waver on 02/03/13 11:23am

prairie camper wrote:

Synthetic Shell rotella T-6 cummins 6.7 TD. World of difference in the winter for starting. Next is trans and the diff this summer.


This post nails it. Synthetic oils perform much better at extreme conditions than conventional oil, very similar for normal conditions. They also are able to maintain viscosity index and viscosity at 40 centistokes and 100 centistokes when there is a presence of wear metals or oxidation.


Posted By: DHCamper on 02/03/13 11:33am

I use synthetic from day 1 for all my engines. It comes out clean at the end of the extended use period. I would not use it for an older motor because it can disrupt some of the normal wear tolerances. I particularly like the way it cleans up and doesn't penitrate your skin like conventional oil does.


Posted By: Gale Hawkins on 02/03/13 01:13pm

Most all of our stuff was high mileage before moving to synthetic. There is not hard data that states synthetic is functionally better for an engine that I have found as it relates to RV'ing usage over dino oil if it meets OEM specs. I use synthetic motor oil more for emotional reasons.


Posted By: Turtle n Peeps on 02/03/13 01:37pm

Tennessee_Nomad wrote:

I change oil regularly. That said, I was wondering how many of you run synthetic oil in your tow vehicles? Is there a lot of difference in wear and tear on your engine between a good premium motor oil and a synthetic? Especially with higher mileage vehicles... ~80,000 mi.

Post moved from TT Forum to Tow Vehicle Forum

Moderator - TT Forum


I don't.

Studies have shown no difference in wear and tear on engines.

Here is what Cat says:

Cat wrote:

What is Caterpillar’s position regarding Synthetic oils?
Caterpillar does not recommend a different oil drain interval for synthetic oils versus mineral based oils. Oil used in Caterpillar engines should meet CI4 API classification. If add oil is necessary, Caterpillar recommends the same brand of add oil as what is currently in the engine be used.


My vehicles use only dino Rotella in them:

96 with almost 300 thousand miles on it.
86 with 275 thousand miles on it.
93 6.5 diesel with 175 thousnad miles on it.
63 Case tractor with more than 10,000 hours on it.
82 5.7 diesel with 175 thousand miles on it.

These vehicles will be retired when the time comes because of body and interior issues and not because of engine issues. The engines run fine and with dino oil all their life.


~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~


"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"

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Posted By: bovellois on 02/03/13 01:38pm

Happy_Waver wrote:

prairie camper wrote:

Synthetic Shell rotella T-6 cummins 6.7 TD. World of difference in the winter for starting. Next is trans and the diff this summer.


This post nails it. Synthetic oils perform much better at extreme conditions than conventional oil, very similar for normal conditions. They also are able to maintain viscosity index and viscosity at 40 centistokes and 100 centistokes when there is a presence of wear metals or oxidation.


x3


Bruno, Carol, Thierry and Julien
Sankei the fox terrier
Starla the Gordon setter
97 Dodge 2500 4x QC diesel
2006 ROO19



Posted By: spoon059 on 02/03/13 01:51pm

My old boss had an early 90's Mazda B series pickup truck. He NEVER changed his oil or filter. He would check his oil and add some as needed. Had over 150,000 miles before it was totaled in a wreck. Kinda makes you wonder...


2015 Ram CTD
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Posted By: Gale Hawkins on 02/03/13 02:13pm

spoon059 wrote:

My old boss had an early 90's Mazda B series pickup truck. He NEVER changed his oil or filter. He would check his oil and add some as needed. Had over 150,000 miles before it was totaled in a wreck. Kinda makes you wonder...


So I guess changing oil is not as important to long engine life as staying out of wrecks. [emoticon]

My wife just drive the 2003 SUV until it said 0% oil life left or what ever and it tensed me up. The level was still OK at 7500 miles but the oil is dirty looking. [emoticon]


Posted By: Gale Hawkins on 02/03/13 02:17pm

Dtaylor wrote:

Oil does not wear out. It does become contaminated with metals from engine wear and fuel that may enter around worn piston rings. I have friends who only change the filter every 5-6K miles and never have mechanical problems related to oil. Now, would I do that in mine; absolutely not. Unless I am doing a lot of heavy towing, I change mine about every 10K using synthetic.


I have started the filter change only on a few engines after going to synthetic and was amazed how very dirty looking oil will come back to nearly new looking on the dip stick. That as to be a good thing.


Posted By: daveyboy12 on 02/03/13 02:18pm

I use synthetics in all my vehicles, but swear by Fix a Flat for extended use. I've had two flats over the past two years, and both times I just zip it up with fix a flat and haven't had problems with either tire since.


Posted By: spoon059 on 02/03/13 02:19pm

Yea, I always figured that oil is cheap insurance. It took some convincing to extand my OCI's from 3000 to 5000 miles. I change my motorcycle oil mid summer and late fall, even if I don't put a lot of miles on in a particular year. Change lawnmower and tractor oil every fall no matter what. I might be "wasting" oil, but I don't mind the relatively little cost to keep my peace of mind.


Posted By: Greentreena on 02/03/13 02:28pm

I only religiously used synthetic on my ram V10 because I would gain .5 mpg for the first 3000 km. I would change the oil every 5000 km. It had to be a brand name synthetic not a store brand to get the mileage improvment.

With my current vehicles, I'll buy what on sale except the diesel get conventional rotella T.


2008 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7 Mega Cab 4x4 SRW Laramie - Big & Black
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Hijacker Auto Slide/ P3
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Posted By: curt12914 on 02/03/13 03:49pm

Let me preface this by saying if your engine manufacturer specifies synthetic, you should definitely use synthetic. If not, it's your money. If synthetic makes you sleep better, use it.

Many of the, so called, synthetic oils are petroleum based oils.

I work for our state DOT. All oils we use are recycled oil. Our engines run thousands of hours and I have never seen an engine failure that could be attributed to oil failure (other than some thatt he oil pan rusted out and dropped the oil).

IMHO, changing oil at manufacturers recommended intervals, using the recommended rating of oil, using the recommended viscocity and using quality oil filters, is much more important than using synthetic.


2021 F-350 Platinum 4X4 PSD SRW 2016 Montana 3950FL (2) Honda EU2000i's
...and a few (twenty-some, but other than my wife, no one is counting) antique Allis Chalmers tractors


Posted By: ib516 on 02/03/13 06:41pm

Synthetic in mine in winter always - 0w40! Try starting a diesel at -40* with 15w40 dino oil once, and you'll be a fan of synthetic. That said, if the temps aren't too extreme where you live, 15w40 is likely just fine. Where synthetic is a real benefit is at extreme temperature, low or high.

Edited to add:
In the owners manual for my truck, synthetic oil is required below 0*F.

[image]

* This post was last edited 02/03/13 07:15pm by ib516 *


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Posted By: Jarlaxle on 02/03/13 06:49pm

Tennessee_Nomad wrote:

I change oil regularly. That said, I was wondering how many of you run synthetic oil in your tow vehicles? Is there a lot of difference in wear and tear on your engine between a good premium motor oil and a synthetic? Especially with higher mileage vehicles... ~80,000 mi.


Synthetic is a benefit for a miniscule number of vehicles; yours is almost certainly not one of them. In 99% of vehicles, it's a waste of money. Use whatever oil of the correct weight and specification that you can get the cheapest. Oil is oil.


John and Elizabeth (Liz), with Briza the size XL tabby
St. Bernard Marm, cats Vierna and Maya...RIP. ">
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion


Posted By: Donniecfd32 on 02/04/13 04:09am

I use nothing but Schaeffer Oil products in the engine and diffs, and I use Allison Transyn in the tranny. I have had my used engine oil tested and I have found that with the (Supreme 7000™ Synthetic Plus Engine Oil) I could go 12,000 miles between oil changes, but I change my oil at 8000 miles or once a year which ever comes first.

The way I see it is that I spent big money on our TV and using good lubricants is cheap insurance not to mention the OTR trucking and school bus companies that use Schaeffer products that are pushing 5 MILLION miles on some of their rigs can't be all wrong.


Donnie & Shawn
2008 Silverado 3500HD D/Max Allison
2013 Dutchmen Voltage 3200 Epic
2003 Harley Davidson Roadking Classic
1998 EZGO Golf Cart



Posted By: 2112 on 02/04/13 04:55am

FWIW: I have never used synthetic oil, replace oil and filter every 6K miles and never had an oil related engine problem. Some have had 200K+ miles on them.
YMMV


2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost SuperCab Max Tow, 2084# Payload, 11,300# Tow,
Timbrens, PullRite SuperGlide 2700 15K
2013 KZ Durango 2857



Posted By: DSteiner51 on 02/04/13 06:25am

I normally change oil 10,000-12,000 miles and get 200,000+ miles per engine. The one exception was when leasing my 2000 pickup. Lease required oil changed at 5000 miles so I went with Mobil 1. It ended up being the only engine I've seen the inside of and got rid of it at 150,000 miles. No more Mobil 1 for me.


D. Steiner
The sooner I fall behind, the more time I have to catch up.



Posted By: Like2Travel on 02/04/13 07:58am

I have used Mobile 1 on almost every vehicle I have owned since around 1976 and never had any problem. In 1997, I bought a new 97' Camry 4 cylinder and decided to go with non-synthetic. I change my own and do it often and thought that would be OK. When the car got about 70K on it, it started smoking at start up. Valve seals. I discovered that this was a problem on these engines and if you had always taken it to a dealer for all of their maintenance, they would do a free valve seal job for you. If not, around $800 would get you the seal job. I probably drove the car with the smoke getting worse for about 10K. Then, one day, I decided to change it to Mobile 1. Within several months, the smoking quit completey. After that, I drove the car for another 60K with no problems. This showed me that one of the things about synthetic that I had heard was true. They will take around double the tempurature of a dino oil and keep working. I run Mobile 10-30 in my truck and plan to stick with synthetics.


John & Evelyn
2013 Dodge Ram Larimie 2500HD 4X2 Crew Cab 3.42
Outback 28 FRLS Sydney
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Posted By: Hermes on 02/04/13 08:11am

The real benefit to synthetic is for winter driving for the simple reason in cold weather dino oils thicken up and synthetic oils do not. This means there is a brief period of time a motor in cold weather is not adequately lubricated. As for the other end of the spectrum, in very hot weather, as long as the cooling system is operating correctly, the engine temp should not exceed the normal operating temperature.


Regards, Bruce, Lin An & Kenji
2014 28' Northwood Mfg. Snow River 246RKS &
Hensley Arrow Hitch
2015 Ram 3500 CTD w/AISIN Tranny, Dually
2013 Aliner Expedition (Gone but not forgotten)




Posted By: jason4598 on 02/04/13 08:55am

I use synthetic for winter cold starts. It looks like my fuel mileage increased a little when I changed over. I only drive about 7000 miles a year so I run synthetic all the time.


Posted By: RWDIII on 02/04/13 10:28am

n7bsn wrote:

Tennessee_Nomad wrote:

I change oil regularly. That said, I was wondering how many of you run synthetic oil in your tow vehicles? Is there a lot of difference in wear and tear on your engine between a good premium motor oil and a synthetic? Especially with higher mileage vehicles... ~80,000 mi.


RTFM? Does your Ford manual say regular or synth? I know the manual for my 01, 07 and 08 Fords all say synth.
I also change oil at the manufacturers recommended period. I figure they designed it and wrote the spec. They certainly know the system better them some back-yard mechanic.


My manual specs fords 5-20 blend.BITOG rates as a very good oil.
I still use it now that my warrenty is up.
I avg 6500 mi a year and change oil and rotate tires once a year.
The new SN rating increased the blend to a true 50-50,again according to BITOG.
What I am saying is use what you want.once a year cost is $40 for Semi blend and $55 for full syn.So for me cost would be $1.25 a month diff.I spend an avg of $125 a month on gas.
I use what the manual specs.


OLD 2006 F150 4wd 7200gvw,Lt275-65-18,Scan Guage,Garmin,flowmaster,load levelers,Firestone work rites Bronco 800

NEW 2015 F250 Scab 4wd 10000 gvw, 6.2 Scan guage,Garmin,work rites,3200 lb load,1800lb Palomino Backpack SS1200


Posted By: bovellois on 02/04/13 02:24pm

What's not to like about synthetic oil? PAOs are a marvel of engineering. They are thin at startup, when metal to metal contact is most likely to hurt the engine, remain thick and consistent at operating temperature, are not damaged by heat and do not oxidize. Synthetic oil keeps its lubrication properties at least twice as long as dyno oil, so price is a moot point.


Posted By: BenK on 02/04/13 03:33pm

bovellois wrote:

What's not to like about synthetic oil? PAOs are a marvel of engineering. They are thin at startup, when metal to metal contact is most likely to hurt the engine, remain thick and consistent at operating temperature, are not damaged by heat and do not oxidize. Synthetic oil keeps its lubrication properties at least twice as long as dyno oil, so price is a moot point.


X2...but...it depends...

How long does the OP keep their vehicles?

If they trade in a few years, moot point for 'them' as any accelerated
wear n tear will be passed onto the next owner. Those folks drive into
the margins and the new or 2nd owner is left with little to no margin
Those never deal with a worn or wearing out engine or other components
that would benefit from better lube

Depends where (terrain and ambient).

Depends how they drive.

Had a software scientist working for one of my Skunk Works program at SunLabs
who drove a nondescript Japanese (banged up and kinda sorta looked like
a 70's Honda or Toyota) sedan that he never change engine oil nor filter

He also bought recycled jug oil (aka...El Cheapo) and was always adding
somewhere around 1-2 quarts every time he left work. Assume he did
likewise in the morning

Didn't smoke either (or that we could tell)

Good/better oil (dino) or synthetic would be a complete waste on his
car and
him. He also drove till the wear bars showed on his tires. No one
would ride with him to lunch, so he always got a free ride from us.

Someone mentioned that GREAT CR oil article on taxis' of NY City. Well
perfect if you lived in NY and drove a taxi. They are turned off only
to refuel and service (oil/filter/etc). Otherwise they are not turned
off. Even for a change in shift/driver.

Who drives like that?

Yes, I've also read articles of reporting the greatest amount of wear
on an ICE is the first start after being off over nite.

The oil drains and leaves the rings metal to metal on the cylinder walls
because 'some' oil film strength is not as high as others.

So those lower film strength oils drain off to go metal on metal

Synthetics (the good ones) have a much higher film strength and has
'more' oil left on. Of course if you leave it off for a week or more
am sure most of the oil is drained off.

I can tell when my ICE's oil is ready for a change. They start to
consume oil. Like my Odyssey is right at 3k miles since the last
change (mechanic and he used dino) because the oil is too dark for my
taste and is low.

Until two weeks ago, the oil was just discolored, but right up there
on the dip stick.

Some have said 'Hog Wash'...they race/etc and never had that happen

Well good for them, they are not me. Nor my vehicle. Nor drive like
I do...

It depends...and there is no one size fits all...even socks...at least for me


-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...


Posted By: C Schomer on 02/04/13 03:48pm

From what I've read lately... choosing the right grade is more important than which type, especially in cold climates. So far, you can only get 0wXX grades in syn. Craig


Posted By: naturist on 02/04/13 07:42pm

I use fully synthetic oil in both the TV and the car -- because the vehicle mfg required it to maintain the warranty. Both are diesels, btw, and synthetics are known to perform better in the high heat at the turbo bearings. In fact, word is that that particular spot is the very reason that both engine makers specified it in the first place.






Posted By: NinerBikes on 02/04/13 08:51pm

My 2012 VW Touareg V6 TDI diesel requires a VW 507.00 Euro LL03 spec 5W-30 Full synthetic motor oil that is Low SAPS spec of 600 ppm calcium in the oil, to keep ash content down in the Diesel particulate filter from oil burning. Manufacturer recommends 10,000 miles between oil changes.

So that's what I'll do, $8 a liter for oil, takes 9 liters.

It tows my 21 foot travel trailer just fine. MPG goes from an average of 29.5 MPG to about 15.5 or 16 MPG.


Posted By: rhagfo on 02/05/13 12:45am

Dtaylor wrote:

Oil does not wear out. It does become contaminated with metals from engine wear and fuel that may enter around worn piston rings. I have friends who only change the filter every 5-6K miles and never have mechanical problems related to oil. Now, would I do that in mine; absolutely not. Unless I am doing a lot of heavy towing, I change mine about every 10K using synthetic.


Well I only change every 10,000 miles using dino oil. I have had the last changes sampled, all readings good, have TBN good enough to go 12,500 at least, but will stick with 10K. I might change less often if I was pulling more, easier on the oil in a diesel.

Most apply gas rules to their diesel oil changes, diesels especially pre emission engines don't contaminate oil like a gas engine. Sure will turn black, but just soot and does no harm.
Biggest issue with the post emission engines is fuel dilution, working hard clears that up in a hurry.


Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"



Posted By: flyweed on 02/05/13 12:30pm

all I have to add to this is some real world experience. My dad owns a company that uses several "fleet" vehicles which are on the road 5 days a week. When purchased he put's nothing but Mobil 1 full synth in the engines, along with the transmission and a bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil. He changes oil on the vehicles every 15,000 miles and the inside of the trans still look brand new, and the engines run like they did on day one. Most of them have over 400,000 miles on them now.

ALSO..he will NOT use Fram filters, as they have paper inserts in them, that can break down over time...he only uses Bosch or Mopar oil filters that are all metal.


Posted By: CJW8 on 02/05/13 01:15pm

The jets that I have flown 1.2 million miles in and the gas turbine engines that produce our electricity use synthetic oil. That's good enough for me. I do not know about the jets but in industrial gas turbines, it is seldom if ever changed but it is tested regularly and highly filtered. Yes, I know that turbins and internal combustion engines are different animals but we also run several Catepillar engines for energency power and cranes etc. that also run synthetic and it is seldom changed either. It is also highly filtered and tested.


2003 Forest River Sierra M-37SP Toy Hauler- Traded in
2015 Keystone Raptor 332TS 5th wheel toy Hauler (sold)
2004 Winnebago Vectra. 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee toad


Posted By: kennethwooster on 02/05/13 02:19pm

I've ran synthetic for years. Mostly Mobile 1 in gas, and Mobile Delvac one in diesel. I had one particular 4 wheel drive tractor 325HP that I ran synthetic in. Cummings had some bad pistons in itand overhauled it for me at about 3500 Miles. I kept the tractor till it had 11,000 hours, and it still ran perfect. We would run the oil about 500 hours, but changed the filter every 100 hours. Too much dirt and hard pulling, thus the filter changes.


kenneth wooster- retired farmer. Biblical History Teacher in public HS, and substitute teacher.
wife Diana-adult probation officer, now retired.
31KSLS Full Body paint Cameo
Ford F350 2014 DRW 4X4 King Ranch.
20K B&W Puck mount hitch


Posted By: coolbreeze01 on 02/05/13 02:30pm

flyweed wrote:

all I have to add to this is some real world experience. My dad owns a company that uses several "fleet" vehicles which are on the road 5 days a week. When purchased he put's nothing but Mobil 1 full synth in the engines, along with the transmission and a bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil. He changes oil on the vehicles every 15,000 miles and the inside of the trans still look brand new, and the engines run like they did on day one. Most of them have over 400,000 miles on them now.

ALSO..he will NOT use Fram filters, as they have paper inserts in them, that can break down over time...he only uses Bosch or Mopar oil filters that are all metal.


And I know of a very successful fleet running hundreds of engines 24/7, using re-manufactured engine oil and Fram filters. The secret is good preventative maintenance along with people training.


2008 Ram 3500 With a Really Strong Tractor Motor...........
LB, SRW, 4X4, 6-Speed Auto, 3.73, Prodigy P3, Blue Ox Sway Pro........
2014 Sandsport 26FBSL


Posted By: Marinermark on 02/05/13 05:12pm

My Tow Vehicle is a 2002 Ford van - 5.4L/3.55. Mileage 148,000 of which 35,000 was towing my 5,600 lb 25' TT. I change oil every 5,000 mi using 'synthetic blend' at the Ford dealer wherever I am when it needs a change. Cost is about $30. I add 1 quart of full synthetic at 2,500-3,000 mi. between changes. I think I'm getting most of the benefits of 'mostly synthetic' at minimum cost. So far-so good.


Posted By: shoreco on 02/05/13 05:29pm

Tennessee_Nomad wrote:

I change oil regularly. That said, I was wondering how many of you run synthetic oil in your tow vehicles? Is there a lot of difference in wear and tear on your engine between a good premium motor oil and a synthetic? Especially with higher mileage vehicles... ~80,000 mi.

Post moved from TT Forum to Tow Vehicle Forum

Moderator - TT Forum


I used synthetic oil from day one...

Vehicle #1 has 205,000 miles and still runs like day one....

Vehicle #2 has 155,000 miles and still runs like day one....

Enuff said...


2002 National Dolphin 5355


Posted By: Gale Hawkins on 02/05/13 05:40pm

shoreco wrote:

Tennessee_Nomad wrote:

I change oil regularly. That said, I was wondering how many of you run synthetic oil in your tow vehicles? Is there a lot of difference in wear and tear on your engine between a good premium motor oil and a synthetic? Especially with higher mileage vehicles... ~80,000 mi.

Post moved from TT Forum to Tow Vehicle Forum

Moderator - TT Forum


I used synthetic oil from day one...

Vehicle #1 has 205,000 miles and still runs like day one....

Vehicle #2 has 155,000 miles and still runs like day one....

Enuff said...


Like that supports the use of synthetic engine oil. I bought a running 4.3L chevy pick up with 524,000 miles it it with only dino oil usage.

We use synthetic motor oil for emotional reasons and not proven technical reasons. [emoticon]


Posted By: ls1mike on 02/05/13 07:25pm

Read and heed.


Dino VS Synthetic

To sumazrize (from the above link)...

A 10W-30 synthetic oil is based on a 30 grade oil. This is unlike the counterpart mineral oil based on a 10 grade oil. There is no VI improver needed. The oil is already correct for the normal operating temperature of 212°F. It has a thickness of 10 while you drive to work. It will never thin yet has the same long term problem as the mineral based oil. They both thicken with extended age.


Oil molecules do not break down, just the additives. Generally, the synthetic oils do not have VI improvers so have less to lose

To recap, synthetic oils have similar characteristics as mineral oils at operating temperatures. The synthetic oil will however be less honey – like at startup even though it has the same API / SAE rating. Yet the synthetic 10W-30 grade oil is based on a heavier 30 grade oil while the mineral based 10W-30 oil is based on a thinner 10 grade oil. They are both similar at operating temperatures yet the 30 grade based synthetic is actually less thick at startup and much less honey – like at low temperatures. This is the opposite of what common sense dictates.

Everything I own gets Mobil 1
The 11 Second LS1 Trans Am
The 13 Second 3800 Buick
The 6.0 Chevy Truck
The 3.4 Equinox
Having said all that a good quality Dino will work fine, but why bother with the complexity and tolerances of modern engines. I like having the extra protection at startup.

* This post was edited 02/05/13 07:36pm by ls1mike *


Mike
2017 Chevy 3500HD 6.0 Crew Cab Long bed
2012 Passport 3220 BHWE
Me, the Wife, two little ones and two dogs.


Posted By: bovellois on 02/05/13 08:46pm

Gale Hawkins wrote:

Like that supports the use of synthetic engine oil. I bought a running 4.3L chevy pick up with 524,000 miles it it with only dino oil usage.

We use synthetic motor oil for emotional reasons and not proven technical reasons. [emoticon]


It's a combination of both. I have a friend who owns a fleet of school buses in Alberta. One of his newest acquisitions is equiped with a Mercedes Benz engine for which the first oil change is scheduled at 30000 miles. That's an indication of trust in the quality of their engine and the performance of syn oil. Germany is a petroleum "have not" country. It makes no sense for them to continue with oil changes at 3000 miles.


Posted By: wintersun on 02/05/13 11:30pm

Vehicles used for heavy towing or hauling are in "severe" use and the maintenance schedule needs to be adjusted for the extra demands placed on the lubricants. With GM the severe duty trans fluid change schedule can be four times as frequent as with "normal duty" use. Most people buy pickup trucks and never pull the maximum trailer load or carry the maximum payload.

With regard to motor oils the synthetic base stocks and the dino base stocks that meet the API standards are no different in performance. The 25% of what is in a gallon of oil in the form of additives is what makes the difference between one brand of oil and another.

Short trips, mountain driving, hot weather, extended cold weather, and emissions controls (which vary by year and my make and by type of engine) also shorten the useful life of a motor oil mix with its additives. The only place where a synthetic is clearly advantageous is with subfreezing conditions where the 5 weight will perform better with a cold engine.

I would not feel comfortable with a severe use pattern with going by the "standard service intervals". If I am going to change the oil and filter more often then there is no reason to pay the substantial premium for synthetic oils which are 2-4 times the price of premium dino motor oils.

With my Mercedes the manufacturer recommends that the motor oil be synthetic and that it be changed at least once a year regardless of the number of miles driven. With my use of the car that would mean putting in new synthetic motor oil every 5,000 miles on average and that would be a complete waste of money.

For my diesel truck with its particulate filter I also use dino oil and with its severe duty use, and the soot and sludge that builds up from the particulate filter emissions control system, I change it every 7500 miles. If I went by the truck's computer I would be changing it every 10,000 miles. At either service interval with my driving in plus 40 degree weather there is no reason to use anything other than a quality dino motor oil designed for use in diesel engines.


Posted By: broark01 on 02/06/13 08:35pm

I have towed for over 2 decades using synthetic motor oils, in gas and diesel, without an oil related failure of any type and am EMOTIONALLY addicted to it. That is the first step to recovery.


Posted By: Jarlaxle on 02/07/13 05:10am

flyweed wrote:

all I have to add to this is some real world experience. My dad owns a company that uses several "fleet" vehicles which are on the road 5 days a week. When purchased he put's nothing but Mobil 1 full synth in the engines, along with the transmission and a bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil. He changes oil on the vehicles every 15,000 miles and the inside of the trans still look brand new, and the engines run like they did on day one. Most of them have over 400,000 miles on them now.

ALSO..he will NOT use Fram filters, as they have paper inserts in them, that can break down over time...he only uses Bosch or Mopar oil filters that are all metal.


I watched a fleet of wreckers wind up huge miles on regular WalMart or Pep Boys oil, and a V10 F550 wind up 553,000 on whatever 5w-30 the company got a drum of (usually Shell, they got it from the same guy that delivered their Rotella). Oil is oil.


Posted By: 4x4ord on 02/07/13 06:52am

I use synthetic and change the oil every 25000 km - I doubt that it is saving me any money as I would very likely never have a problem with the engine on my truck running dino oil and changing at the same interval. I figure any oil will last much longer than the oil monitoring system is going to tell you so I put in the best oil and double the change interval and call it good. I have never heard of anyone running a vehicle until the engine wore out.


2022 F350 SRW Platinum short box 4x4.
B&W Companion
2008 Citation Platinum XL 34.5


Posted By: bovellois on 02/08/13 01:36pm

Like2Travel wrote:

I have used Mobile 1 on almost every vehicle I have owned since around 1976 and never had any problem. In 1997, I bought a new 97' Camry 4 cylinder and decided to go with non-synthetic. I change my own and do it often and thought that would be OK. When the car got about 70K on it, it started smoking at start up. Valve seals. I discovered that this was a problem on these engines and if you had always taken it to a dealer for all of their maintenance, they would do a free valve seal job for you. If not, around $800 would get you the seal job. I probably drove the car with the smoke getting worse for about 10K. Then, one day, I decided to change it to Mobile 1. Within several months, the smoking quit completey. After that, I drove the car for another 60K with no problems. This showed me that one of the things about synthetic that I had heard was true. They will take around double the tempurature of a dino oil and keep working. I run Mobile 10-30 in my truck and plan to stick with synthetics.


Did it still use oil? Syn oil does not burn, so if it gets past the rings, it would just get thrown out with the exhaust fumes.


Posted By: RAS43 on 02/08/13 03:51pm

bovellois wrote:

Did it still use oil? Syn oil does not burn, so if it gets past the rings, it would just get thrown out with the exhaust fumes.


Synthetic oil does not burn? I have never heard that one. Can you share some info showing that.


Posted By: WellShooter2 on 02/08/13 04:00pm

Synthetic oil is just a higher priced oil. It's still oil. It may double the mileage between changes but that doesn't justify the higher price. How long can you go between changes? I wouldn't know, I can't make myself go beyond 5000 miles between changes so for me it would not be worth it. I also don't trade vehicles in under 10 years either.

P.S. Synthetic is the best stuff they ever made for lawn mowers.


2008 2500HD D/A
2008 Keystone Challenger



Posted By: Gale Hawkins on 02/08/13 04:00pm

It is a fact synthetic oil burns. Even antifreeze is flammable.

What I have not seen yet in worn high miles dino using engines is for them to start leaking/burning after we changed them to synthetic motor oil.


Posted By: Beaker on 02/08/13 04:40pm

Quote:

Even antifreeze is flammable.


Had a car engine catch fire one time and the only liquid I had around was a gallon of antifreeze in the back seat.

Yep, antifreeze is flammable.


2008 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
2010 Cruiser 26RK


Posted By: bovellois on 02/08/13 05:11pm

RAS43 wrote:

bovellois wrote:

Did it still use oil? Syn oil does not burn, so if it gets past the rings, it would just get thrown out with the exhaust fumes.


Synthetic oil does not burn? I have never heard that one. Can you share some info showing that.


People that heat their shops with used oil say it's no good at all, it won't ignite like dino oil.


Posted By: Gale Hawkins on 02/08/13 05:15pm

bovellois wrote:

RAS43 wrote:

bovellois wrote:

Did it still use oil? Syn oil does not burn, so if it gets past the rings, it would just get thrown out with the exhaust fumes.


Synthetic oil does not burn? I have never heard that one. Can you share some info showing that.


People that heat their shops with used oil say it's no good at all, it won't ignite like dino oil.


I would just add some diesel to get it to light better.


Posted By: bovellois on 02/08/13 05:23pm

Gale Hawkins wrote:

It is a fact synthetic oil burns. Even antifreeze is flammable.

What I have not seen yet in worn high miles dino using engines is for them to start leaking/burning after we changed them to synthetic motor oil.


Yes, that is odd. I have not tried it but I read it's not recommended to switch to syn oil in a high mileage engine, as the sludge build-up gets washed out of seals, creating a risk of leak. I can't tell if it's a marketing pitch, implying synthetic oil will even wash sludge.


Posted By: Wxguru on 02/08/13 05:44pm

When I had my 2003 Ram, that HEMI motor loved the synthetic. I bought it with 25000 miles on the clock, and from that moment forward it got Mobil 1 Synthetic and a Mobil 1 filter every 7500 miles until I traded it last month with 123000 miles on it. When I traded it, it still ran like new. That was the quietest and smoothest running motor in a vehicle I have ever had. You could hardly tell it was running when sitting at a light.


2012 Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 Bighorn, 6.7L CTD
2011 Cherokee Grey Wolf 28A+KS
2010 Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 Laramie, 6.7L CTD--Owned 1 week!
2003 Dodge Ram Quad Cab 4X2, 5.7L HEMI--Retired Dec 2012



Posted By: wtd on 02/09/13 12:22am

I run dino oil in everything. I used to be a big synthetic fan and Mobil 1 in particular but it made my engine noisier, used more oil, and my oil analysis results were not good enough to justify the cost. Went back to a dino oil and all of the above symptoms went away. This was in a Vortec 350 in a 98 chevy truck that I bought new. I still have this truck today and it runs great.

Wayne


Posted By: Jarlaxle on 02/09/13 05:17am

bovellois wrote:

RAS43 wrote:

bovellois wrote:

Did it still use oil? Syn oil does not burn, so if it gets past the rings, it would just get thrown out with the exhaust fumes.


Synthetic oil does not burn? I have never heard that one. Can you share some info showing that.


People that heat their shops with used oil say it's no good at all, it won't ignite like dino oil.


The used synthetic from Liz's GN works just fine in a waste-oil heater. Try again!


Posted By: ib516 on 02/09/13 08:47am

Most synthetic diesel oils have a flashpoint of around 450F.


Posted By: CJW8 on 02/12/13 07:30am

ib516 wrote:

Most synthetic diesel oils have a flashpoint of around 450F.


And how does that compare to typical dino oil?


Posted By: Gale Hawkins on 02/12/13 09:25am

As your can see this chart shows 65F fla........int for motor oil or no real difference.


Posted By: BenK on 02/12/13 11:06am

I don't look at engine oil flash points, as that is academic...if that is an issue
then there way bigger problems going on

I look at shear & film strength. That is what counts in motor oil

Base stock and the additive package determine both shear strength and
film strength


Posted By: BenK on 02/12/13 12:10pm

OBTW...before it takes another side track...'RACING' oils do have the highest
film and shear strength...but they are pure racing oils that has **_NO_** detergents

So they won't last thousands of miles before needing changing.

We are (hopefully) talking about street applications, right?


Posted By: Gale Hawkins on 02/18/13 06:22pm

This AU testing of film strength did not show Shell 5W-40 doing well.

I have a 2003 Escalade with 125K miles 5.3L gas engine with what my mechanic friend refers to a rod rumble on cold start up so I was looking for an oil with the best film strength and ran across this perhaps older friction test results.

Not as sold on 5W-40 synthetic motor oil as before.

Leaning towards Valvoline Durablend 10W-40 or Royal Purple 10W-40 Multigrade.

Another battery of motor oil testing


Posted By: 4x4ord on 02/18/13 09:41pm

When you consider how archaic even a 10 year old diesel is compared to a new one there is not really very many people who will put enough miles on their truck to wear out an engine before the truck becomes worthless even if they changed the oil every 50,000 miles. I change the oil in my Ford every 15,000 miles and spoil it with synthetic.


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