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 > Balancing TT tires

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RCMAN46

NorthWest

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Posted: 03/02/13 09:55pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ktmrfs wrote:

RCMAN46 wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

I always have mine balanced, however I've never seen a trailer mfg that balances tires.

Why balance??

Not in an priority order:



three: An out of balance tire gets the belts hammered every rotation. many tire mfg claim that a leading cause of belt failure and seperation is not having the tires balanced.



Unfortunetly balancing the tires won't completely balance your wheel assembly since most/all trailer brake drums I've seen don't appear to be balanced, no weights or drilled holes. But they are smaller diameter to the effect of out of balance isn't near a great as out of diameter wheels.


Read # 3 again. If you have read as many posts as I have about trailer tires you may agree with me the most common failure on trailer tires is tread separation!!![emoticon]

I use balance beads in my trailer tires to take care of the unbalance due to the brake drums not being balanced.

I also do not have any problems with things moving around or drawers opening in my trailer.

All rotating objects need to be balanced.


yes i believe they should be balanced, what I said in my post was reasons why you should balance tires. #3 is a good reason to balance. And I always balance my tires.


Sorry my post may not read the way I intended. I was not trying to discredit what you said. Your #3 is something I believe has been overlooked and I was trying make that a point. Before I started using balance beads I had several trailer tires with tread separations while having more than half of the tread left. Since I started using the beads I have not had a tread separation even with the "quote" Chinese bombs.

Cecilt

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Posted: 03/03/13 05:42am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Seems to not be a consensus on this issue. If I want to balance them then I should make sure they can balance using "lug centric" equipment or balance the tire while spinning on the trailer. Since they can't pull my trailer into the shop and have to remove the tires in the parking lot this may not even be possible. I looked at my tires yesterday and they are not balanced and I have over 15k miles on them. Only replacing them because they are 2 years old, chineses bombs and are cracking on the sidewalls. It is $25 more to have them balanced but doubt they are using lug centric equipment.

JJBIRISH

Butler, PA, USA

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Posted: 03/03/13 07:01am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Anything that spins can benefit by balancing… while few have them, there are portable balancers that can spin the wheels on the vehicle while it is sitting in the parking lot and also shave the tires high spots for uniformity… some of the long time truck repair shops have them… although trailer hub/drums are machined to close tolerances and also have both machined brake and actuator surfaces and should be balanced from mfg.…

While trailer wheels are lug centric the center pilot hole on most that I have checked for runout were true and could be balanced on a hub centric balancer pretty well… if the pilot hole is true but the lug holes are not the wheel is factory defective and should be replaced anyway…


Love my mass produced, entry level, built by Lazy American Workers, Hornet


Lynnmor

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Posted: 03/03/13 11:14am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Even if you find a drum that runs true, the casting will vary and it likely will be out of balance.
I agree with John on his views. I just haven't trusted the balance beads to correct for all the issues with tires, wheels and drums. How does the little buggers know where to go each time the speed changes? Yes, I have seen the videos.





JBarca

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Posted: 03/03/13 10:08am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JJBIRISH wrote:

… although trailer hub/drums are machined to close tolerances and also have both machined brake and actuator surfaces and should be balanced from mfg.…



Hi JJ,

I 110% agree that trailer brake drums should come from the factory to run true. This is not rocket science especially in today's machining centers. Unfortunately I have found this "not" to be the case across 2 major brands of trailer brake drums. I still shake my head on "why"???

I found this out when I upgraded to self adjusting brakes. I had one wheel that would over adjust it self and then be too tight. The truck would shift different. Got out, dog gone that drum is really hot...

Long story short that drum ran-out 0.028".... You have got to be kidding me!.... On manual adjust this is covered up by the fact that the mechanic is tweaking the adjuster until he feels the right grab and then stops, never to move it again until the next brake adjust. If you spin the drums you can hear the drag, then it spins free, then drags. Well the inward spot is doing the drag. If the drum is running true it should drag 360 degrees.

On the self adjusters it would find that 0.028" area and be enough to adjust into it. Once it tweaks in too far it can never release and that is the problem. I finally figure this out by checking the drum.

So I ordered 4 new drums from brand "D". Now right out of the box I get 4 very different readings. One was 0.003, one 0.006, one 0.012 and one 0.016” TIR. So I called and talked to engineering of Brand D. Very helpful. The spec is 0.015" TIR max. for trailer wheels. What??? I said you can't get these to run within 0.005"?

The response was, "No one rides in a trailer and they do not notice the vibration like you do when riding in a car. The Auto industry holds the tolerance tighter because of this." This all comes down to $$$. In today's machining centers (even in 1950 you could) they can create that drum dead nuts 4 decimal places if they wanted to. By the way I measured the runout, I suspect they turn the the bearing bore , the outer seal and the wheel face in 1 setup. Then they rotate the drum and machine the brake pad surface, the magnet area and the inboard seal. That 2nd setup they never checked the setup to spin true to the bearing bore. This is machine shop 101...

If you want to see and read more, here is my post on this.
Self Adjusting Brakes (long W/pics and details)

That was when I came to the conclusion to use the balancing beads. Those that are talking about balancing on the trailer are accomplishing the same thing, just now they are timed to the exact wheel and stud location. You almost need to prick punch the stud and wheel as a marker to get them back in time when you service the breaks.

I know the average RV'er never looks this close and if they only put on 2,000 miles a year it most likely never shows up. I never realized this either until I had a problem with it. Now I learn this is yet another thing cut the bare minimum that just works in RV manufacturing.

Why don't all towable RV's come with shocks, balanced wheels and rubber equalizers, adequate sized tires for the tandem axles setup as standard equipment? Well it all comes down to $$$. The competition is so fierce were ever that can save they cut it to the bare minimum.

OK, so it costs. Then offer a running gear upgrade as an option. Let the buyer choose to buy it? I would and I'm sure others who know would too. H'mm, maybe then they might have to explain why they are selling you the bare minimum to start with. The auto industry figured out long ago how to build suspension and wheels to run true. It may have dated back to the 30's or even earlier... It is just not chosen to be used in a towable RV.

OK I have vented enough... Was not meant towards you or anyone else. Just explaining that what we have on most all of our RV's is nothing like we have in the auto we drive every day. However with a little effort it could be. Hopefully some day the RV industry will at least offer running gear and frame upgrades as an offering.

Thanks for listening.

John

* This post was edited 03/03/13 10:43am by JBarca *


John & Cindy

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JJBIRISH

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Posted: 03/03/13 11:30pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

John
another fully researched and well documented report… you rock…

I guess nothing should surprise me with the RV industry, they have always operated this way… I’m not convinced it is the competition driving them and think it is the well cultivated cultural divide that was adopted by the industry in its infancy and carried on today… it’s kind of like Mom’s secret award winning recipe to them…

It seems obvious their machine operators are not machinist… real machinist I know would accept being fired before doing shoddy work… for real trades people their work is their signature…

So it was just quick sloppy workmanship in the 2 set-ups, maybe by 2 different people even…

On self-adjusters… I had the same problem with my van rear brakes… every 2500/3000 miles I would have to loosen the adjuster in one wheel… what fooled me is this all started after I did a rear brake job…
I replaced the brakes and hardware a second time with no resolution, had 3 others check my work that found nothing wrong, replaced the drums with new drums still no resolution… had a GM dealer check for anything that might cause this… nothing wrong… I have run into self-adjusters not working or not working well before but never seen one over working…

Then a flashback memory of someone mentioning one time about an axle/bearing problem with the G20 van prompted me to have a trusted truck mechanic replace the axle bearings and inspect the axles for anything that might be a problem… even before I left he broke out the dial indicator and determined everything was well within spec for the axle/ bearing and I would be throwing money away to replace the bearings… I had already threw enough money away but had to do something and had him do the bearings anyway, justifying it by saying they had 130,000 miles on them…
In short the bearing replacement solved the problem even though the old ones were in spec… but I have no one to blame…

ROBERTSUNRUS

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Posted: 03/04/13 12:47am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

[emoticon] Hi, I always have my trailer tires balanced and I have Centramatics to take care of the drums.


"> Bob ">
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srd357

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Posted: 03/10/13 11:15am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Take your new unbalanced trailer tires on a trip. Bring it home and install the dyna beads through the valve stem. You will notice a BIG difference. I have them installed in the trailer tires and the truck tires.

LVJJJ

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Posted: 03/10/13 07:07pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

never have, no problems in 25 years


1994 GMC Suburban K1500
2005 Trail Cruiser TC26QBC
1965 CHEVY VAN, 292 "Big Block 6" (will still tow)
2008 HHR
L(Larry)V(Vicki)J(Jennifer)J(Jesse)J(Jason)

mycharger500

Flagstaff, AZ

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Posted: 04/16/13 03:14pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Put the Balance Beads in all six 280/75R16 5th Wheel tires and all six 255/70R22.5 tires on the Toter.

SMOOOOTH....love them [emoticon]

Found a great price and FREE ship here.... www.cfmt.biz

MTCW

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