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Topic: 2wd vs 4 wd?

Posted By: batavia02 on 03/31/15 04:58pm

Does 2wd make a big difference then 4wd .other then 4wd gives better traction. But does it gives better towing abillities


Posted By: romore on 03/31/15 05:02pm

Depends what and where you are towing. If you are fond of traveling off the beaten track 4wd is almost a must. For most of us it is an expensive set of chains, we have only wished for it once.


Posted By: naturist on 03/31/15 05:08pm

There is no correct answer to a generic question of this sort. It depends on what is towing what under which conditions. Too many variables.






Posted By: TucsonJim on 03/31/15 05:10pm

Here are some pros and cons based on my experience:

1. A four wheel drive equipped vehicle weighs more than a 2WD. The extra elements such as a transfer case and added drive shaft add weight. Let's say you purchased a 2WD and a 4WD that were exactly the same truck. Suppose the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is 9,000 pounds. If the 2WD truck weighed 7,000 Pounds, you would be able to carry 2,000 pounds on that truck. That's called payload. It consists of all weight you put in the truck including driver and passengers, cargo, and trailer pin or tongue weight. If you took the same truck in 4WD, it might weigh 7,500 pounds, but would still have the same 9,000 pound GVWR. So on the 4WD truck, you'd only be able to carry 1,500 pounds (9,000-7,500).

2. I've been in situations where I was trying to back my FW up a driveway to a campsite that was fairly steep and covered in gravel. My truck tires started spinning. I put it in 4WD, and backed in with no problem. If I'd only had 2WD, I would have needed an alternate plan. I've also been bogged down in mud, and used the 4WD to get out.

3. 4WD vehicles are a little more expensive to maintain (but not much). Also, they usually cost more when you make your initial purchase. However, most 4WD trucks will have a higher resale value when you eventually sell it.

4. Normally, 4WD will not give you added towing capacity.

Jim


2016 Ford F350 Turbo Diesel SRW 4x4
2017 Grand Design Reflection 297RSTS
2013 Ford F350 Turbo Diesel SRW 4x4 (Destroyed by fire - 8/29/16)
2014 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS (Destroyed by fire - 8/29/16)


Posted By: poncho62 on 03/31/15 05:30pm

I mainly have 4 wheel drive for when I am not towing...We get winter here


Posted By: ChooChooMan74 on 03/31/15 05:30pm

Very open question that only you can answer. I live in New England with lots of snow, and working a job that requires me to travel in all conditions, 4WD is very helpful (along with dedicated snow tires).

I also had an issue backing up an incline to a campsite where I spun out on gravel. As the previous poster said, I just put it in 4WD and continued backing in.

But 4WD doesn't help all the time, especially when your wheels don't touch the ground.
[image]

* This post was edited 03/31/15 05:48pm by ChooChooMan74 *


Great American Anti-Towing Conspiracy
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Posted By: Terryallan on 03/31/15 05:32pm

In normal towing. You do not need 4x4. I have had 4x4 tow vehicles, and 4x2 tow vehicles. And in 30 years of towing. I have not needed 4x4 with the camper hooked up.
BTW. My TT is parked on a down grade, and I have to pull it out thru grass (uphill). I have NEVER been stuck on the wet grass. Don't really understand how that happens. WE camp in CG that have no pavement. Again, never been stuck.

IF you want 4x4 then get it. It is totally up to you. You are the only one you have to please. But you will more than likely. Never need it


Terry & Shay
Coachman Apex 288BH.
2013 F150 XLT Off Road
5.0, 3.73
Lazy Campers



Posted By: cbshoestring on 03/31/15 05:35pm

We camp mostly in camp grounds, so the need for a 4x4 has not been an issue. Couple times I have spun a bit, backing in on gravel, but I just pull forward a bit and get a run for 'er.

I am not an off-roader, so I refused to pay the extra for 4x4. We live in Pennsylvania and I get around quite well with a 2 wheel drive. Did it for 15yrs with a Dodge Dakota with no extra weight added to the truck. Drove the RAM last year with nothing added....this year was a stinker, so mid-January I broke down and put 300# of sand bags over the axel.

Four wheel drive is nice if you need it...I just try NOT to need it. I grew up driving rear-wheel drive, I ain't afraid to run for it, or drive her side-ways up the hill [emoticon]


Posted By: amandasgramma on 03/31/15 05:49pm

We just did a trek thru a part of Death Valley that only 4wd can get thru. The view was incredible. I don't care if the rig can pull better or not...it takes us where we want to go [emoticon]


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Posted By: TNRIVERSIDE on 03/31/15 06:00pm

We were camping recently in a Florida State Park and had a hard rain overnight. The guys with 2wd had to be towed out. The 4wd were able to drive out.
Also. I have a steep driveway. I always use 4wd low range and pull out without straining anything.


2014 Coleman CTS192RD. 2009 F150 4X4, 5.4, 3.31
Jeff



Posted By: phillyg on 03/31/15 06:05pm

I responded to an earlier post that I didn't believe 4wd was necessary unless one goes off-roading. A week later I needed to use my 4wd to get out of a tough situation while pulling my FW. I learned a lesson.
.


--2005 Ford F350 Lariat Crewcab 6.0, 4x4, 3.73 rear
--2016 Montana 3711FL, 40'
--2014 Wildcat 327CK, 38' SOLD


Posted By: gcloss on 03/31/15 06:19pm

I live in the Northeast and probably 99% of the trucks here are 4wd. No one should tow in 4wd full time, but only use it to get out of situations where it is needed. We camped at a music festival at Hunter Mountain Ski Resort where RV camping was up on the ski slopes. It was pouring rain and the only ones pulling trailers up the mountain were those of us with 4wd.


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2015 Jayco Eagle 284BHBE



Posted By: wandering1 on 03/31/15 06:27pm

4wd is not needed for towing an RV trailer. It does not give you more towing capacity or towing power. You do not have the power to pull the dead weight of a trailer thru the terrain you would need 4wd for.


HR



Posted By: korbe on 03/31/15 06:44pm

My camping area driveway is over 24% on gravel. The 4 wheel drive in low gear takes us up just fine. When I tried in 2 wheel drive, I started to slip.


.


Posted By: FKT4387 on 03/31/15 07:56pm

poncho62 wrote:

I mainly have 4 wheel drive for when I am not towing...We get winter here


For the fact of being able to drive while cars are in ditches everywhere makes me happy to have 4wd drive. I don't believe it adds anything to towing my tt.


Posted By: noteven on 03/31/15 08:48pm

We like 4wd when towing The Big 5'er on roads like this:

[image]


Posted By: valhalla360 on 03/31/15 10:52pm

Since you are asking that pretty much means you don't need it.


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Posted By: Houston Remodeler on 03/31/15 11:01pm

Once you own a 4x4 you won't go back. Being in construction, mine is also used for work. We go to GC's that have dirt roads, steep hills, and once in a while it rains a bit. The tow chain lives behind the drivers seat for a reason. Low range is my friend.

Depends on where you drive.


2015 Starcraft Launch 24RLS
2014 Ram 2500 diesel 4x4
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Posted By: ToyHauler on 03/31/15 11:33pm

IMHO
Its better to have and not need than not have and need it.


Posted By: Sinterior on 03/31/15 11:51pm

I've used 4X4 several times in Provincial Parks, and around here, you couldn't give a 2WD truck away.


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Posted By: miltvill on 04/01/15 01:46am

Tires and a locking rear axel are the most important. Many 4x4 have only one tire spinning in the back and one tire spinning in the front with crappie tires. My TV has never scene snow. So, I don't worry about it.


2020 GMC Denali\Duramax 3500HD Dually Crew Cab
Sold-Trail Cruiser TC23QB


Posted By: myredracer on 04/01/15 03:28am

Depends a lot on where you plan to go camping or where you live.

We have 4WD in our F250. Have never used it and likely never will as we almost never get snow in the SW corner of BC and we only camp in "civilized" CGs with full hookups. The added weight means less payload capacity. 4WD is also a few inches higher off the ground (5-6"?) - harder to access the bed and harder to get in & out (at least for us).






Posted By: scbwr on 04/01/15 06:11am

I've always had four wheel drive and have had to use it on wet grass, gravel and mud when pulling out of a campsite. And, we live up north, so four wheel drive is my choice.


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Posted By: NMDriver on 04/01/15 07:51am

Like Miltvill said if you have a locking rear axle or limited slip you should be fine without 4x4. 4x4 is for getting stuck, if you are towing you just need limited slip/posi-traction/locker hubs on the rear and common sense.

Most people think their truck has a no/limited slip rear end and it does not. One tire starts to spin and they are stuck. Same with many "4x4"'s if they do not have locking axles or a limited slip then the 4x4 becomes 2x4 spinning two wheels.

I have towed with both. I had a 4x4 powerstroke ford and now have a limited rear end Chevy. My limited slip, with the 5er sitting on the rear axle, performs as good as the 4x4. The only time I ever got stuck towing was with the 4x4 because I thought it would pull through and did not. When the mud is deep all the tires spin. I have used chains on the 2x4 and it performs like a half track even in 4x4 stopping clay.

BTW: I had a front wheel drive Civic in Germany which would go up snowy/icy roads that stopped my Army issue jeep when in 4x4. It is all about weight and traction, not how many wheels you can make spin [emoticon]


5er/2500Duramax/18ftBoat


Posted By: mowermech on 04/01/15 08:00am

I started driving in 1958. I got my first 4X4 in 1970.
Y'know, all those years when I had 4X2 vehicles, mostly with open differentials, I got along just fine, even in fairly harsh, snowy Montana winters!
When we were full timing in a 32 foot fifth wheel, my tow vehicle was a one ton diesel dually 4X2. Of course, I had good traction tires on it, front and rear.
These days, our car is a front wheel drive 4X2. W3e drive it all winter, no problem.
My truck is a 4X4, mostly because that is usually all one can find. It also replaced a Jeep Wrangler and the one ton.
I very rarely put it in four wheel drive. I learned long ago, after a 2 foot snow storm, that pickups have no weight to speak of on the rear axle. In the winter time, I always run with at least six 60 pound sandbags in the bed of the truck.
So, OP, do YOU need 4X4? I really don't know, that is a choice only YOU can make.
Choose well.


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Posted By: wnjj on 04/01/15 08:00am

NMDriver wrote:

Like Miltvill said if you have a locking rear axle or limited slip you should be fine without 4x4. 4x4 is for getting stuck, if you are towing you just need limited slip/posi-traction/locker hubs on the rear and common sense.

Most people think their truck has a no/limited slip rear end and it does not. One tire starts to spin and they are stuck. Same with many "4x4"'s if they do not have locking axles or a limited slip then the 4x4 becomes 2x4 spinning two wheels.

I have towed with both. I had a 4x4 powerstroke ford and now have a limited rear end Chevy. My limited slip, with the 5er sitting on the rear axle, performs as good as the 4x4. The only time I ever got stuck towing was with the 4x4 because I thought it would pull through and did not. When the mud is deep all the tires spin. I have used chains on the 2x4 and it performs like a half track even in 4x4 stopping clay.

BTW: I had a front wheel drive Civic in Germany which would go up snowy/icy roads that stopped my Army issue jeep when in 4x4. It is all about weight and traction, not how many wheels you can make spin [emoticon]


Yep. Guess where the weight and traction is on an empty pickup truck?


Posted By: mowermech on 04/01/15 08:07am

wnjj wrote:

NMDriver wrote:

Like Miltvill said if you have a locking rear axle or limited slip you should be fine without 4x4. 4x4 is for getting stuck, if you are towing you just need limited slip/posi-traction/locker hubs on the rear and common sense.

Most people think their truck has a no/limited slip rear end and it does not. One tire starts to spin and they are stuck. Same with many "4x4"'s if they do not have locking axles or a limited slip then the 4x4 becomes 2x4 spinning two wheels.

I have towed with both. I had a 4x4 powerstroke ford and now have a limited rear end Chevy. My limited slip, with the 5er sitting on the rear axle, performs as good as the 4x4. The only time I ever got stuck towing was with the 4x4 because I thought it would pull through and did not. When the mud is deep all the tires spin. I have used chains on the 2x4 and it performs like a half track even in 4x4 stopping clay.

BTW: I had a front wheel drive Civic in Germany which would go up snowy/icy roads that stopped my Army issue jeep when in 4x4. It is all about weight and traction, not how many wheels you can make spin [emoticon]


Yep. Guess where the weight and traction is on an empty pickup truck?


Yessir, that is why I simply can not understand why anybody would drive around in a pickup during the winter, with no weight in the bed, then complain that there is just not enough traction, and they "need" four wheel drive!
By the way, once again, a "2X4" is the nominal dimensions of a piece of lumber. When referring to vehicles, the first number is the number of wheels on the vehicle (duals count as one wheel), and the second number is the number of wheels that can be powered. Thus, a 2 wheeled vehicle that has 4 wheels that can be powered is obviously impossible. It is really a 4X2.


Posted By: Fordlover on 04/01/15 08:15am

batavia02 wrote:

Does 2wd make a big difference then 4wd .other then 4wd gives better traction. But does it gives better towing abillities


To me, if you have to ask this question, then you probably don't need 4wd.
For towing on good solid surface roads, 4x4 is probably more of a liability than a help. 4wd will only be a better tow vehicle when traction from the rear tires becomes insufficient to move the truck/trailer combo. Some also like the compound gearing from low range provided by the transfer case.


2016 Skyline Layton Javelin 285BH
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2007 Infiniti G35 Sport 6 speed daily driver
Retired 2002 Ford Explorer 4.6 V8 4x4
Sold 2007 Crossroads Sunset Trail ST19CK


Posted By: myredracer on 04/01/15 09:00am

How to make your 2WD Ford truck handle like a 4WD: Ford Truck Forum [emoticon]

Learned a trick once if you have a 2WD, rear wheel drive vehicle with a tire spinning and you're stuck - lightly pull the e-brake so the brakes are slightly grabbing then move. Has gotten me out of a slippy situation a few times with 2WD. Surprisingly effective.


Posted By: PRodacy on 04/01/15 09:01am

It totally depends on where you go. If you stay mainly on paved or good gravel roads, you may not need it. If you like back roads, sandy beaches, winter camping (assuming snow) you probably won't want to be without it. Personally, we use 4-wheel drive nearly every gone we go out, but we don't stay on good roads - we explore logging roads and the back country. As mentioned before, limited slip helps, but it's no where as good as four wheel drive. 4x2s often don't have limited slip unless ordered as an option, but I'm not aware of any 4x4 that doesn't come with it. Don't worry about more maintenance or worse mileage with 4x4 as there really isn't any difference. Payload is reduced a little bit, but you're only talking a few hundred pounds; hopefully you're not that close to your capacity. Resale is also way better with a 4x4 - a two wheel drive is nearly impossible to sell in our area. Folks who use their trucks for double duty - towing RVs and for work often prefer the four wheel capability as well.


2012 GMC 3500 dually 4x4
2006 OKanagan 90W
2003 Jeep Rubicon, modified for off road performance


Posted By: tsetsaf on 04/01/15 09:14am

Great responses so far I will add that in our case I specifically wanted 2wd for one reason... to keep me off the really rugged roads. This truck is used to safely move our house from point a to point b. No need to add additional wear and tear. Kind of like being a sugar addict... if I stick candy in the house I will eat it. No need to be tempted with 4wd.

While towing I have needed 4wd twice. First time a lite tug from another truck got me loose. Second time I had to lay down wood under the tires to get loose. Neither episode would convince me to get 4wd.


2006 Ram 3500
2014 Open Range
"I don't trust my own advise!"


Posted By: Terryallan on 04/01/15 07:08pm

myredracer wrote:

How to make your 2WD Ford truck handle like a 4WD: Ford Truck Forum [emoticon]

Learned a trick once if you have a 2WD, rear wheel drive vehicle with a tire spinning and you're stuck - lightly pull the e-brake so the brakes are slightly grabbing then move. Has gotten me out of a slippy situation a few times with 2WD. Surprisingly effective.


Starting off in 2nd gear will give better traction as well. Reduces torque, and allows the tires to move before they break traction. A cool trick I learned towing boats up slick ramps in the 70s


Posted By: batavia02 on 04/01/15 10:17pm

Fascinating answers so far. Thanks , to all who responded
.so far


Posted By: time2roll on 04/01/15 10:26pm

batavia02 wrote:

Does 2wd make a big difference then 4wd .other then 4wd gives better traction. But does it gives better towing abillities
All things equal 4WD typically has a lower tow rating.
4WD is just for traction. And for superior traction most differentials need upgrade also.


2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up


Posted By: MitchF150 on 04/01/15 11:30pm

The difference between a 2wd F150 I looked at and the same exact optioned 4wd truck was #130.. The 2wd had a #2050 payload sticker and the 4wd has #1920 payload sticker.

I got the 4wd and paid more for it too! But, that's because I wanted a 4wd truck.. Not so much for 'towing', but for overall general use of the truck and it sure is nice to have that 4lo to park the trailer at home.

So, it's gonna be an individual thing as to the pros/cons..

Good luck!

Mitch


2013 F150 XLT 4x4 SuperCab Max Tow Egoboost 3.73 gears #7700 GVWR #1920 payload. 2019 Rockwood Mini Lite 2511S.


Posted By: Atlee on 04/02/15 11:06am

I always figure it's better to have 4x4 and not need it, that to need it, and not have it.

I needed it twice just last year when towing my trailer. Had to back up a wet grassy incline to park the trailer. Put it in 4x4L, and backed up the hill with out once breaking the wheels loose.


Then, right after a very heavy down poor that made the entrance into the field where we were parking a mud pit, I got the truck and trailer through in 4x4. The only truck among us that was a 4x2, got stuck.


Erroll, Mary
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Equal-i-zer Hitch


Posted By: hawkeye-08 on 04/02/15 04:22pm

I use my 4WD, not just when towing but other times too. I also love the 4wd low selection that allows me to ease along. Both my Dad and I use it backing into shop with the trailer so we can just idle in easy...


Posted By: rhagfo on 04/02/15 06:20pm

06Fargo wrote:

We like 4wd when towing The Big 5'er on roads like this:

[image]


That is no issue a lot of bare pavement.

This a good reason for 4X4.

[image]


Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"



Posted By: noteven on 04/02/15 08:16pm

rhagfo wrote:

06Fargo wrote:

We like 4wd when towing The Big 5'er on roads like this:

[image]


That is no issue a lot of bare pavement.

This a good reason for 4X4.

[image]


Of course, what was I thinking. Monida Pass on I15 is a piece of cake in a snowstorm [emoticon] Are you pulling a tri axle 39ft 16000 lbs trailer on that road?


Posted By: Winged One on 04/02/15 08:30pm

I had a 1988 4x2 SRW. Towed a 5th and drove 15 Michigan winters with it (with rear wheel antilock only, designed to kill the driver).

I had a 2008 4x4 SRW. Towed a 5th and never needed the 4x4. Not used during the winter.

Now I have a 2013 2x4 DRW. Again, never needed it to be 4x4. Not used during the winter.

Depends on what you are going to do with it.

Somehow, me and millions of others survived endless winters with 2x4's because we knew how to drive.


2013 F350 6.7 DRW SC Lariat
2011 Brookstone 354TS
Swivelwheel 58DW
1993 GL1500SE
Yamaha 3000ISEB



Posted By: noteven on 04/03/15 05:53am

A 2wd tow vehicle is very capable for non-off road towing especially with a no spin differential:

Eaton Tru-Trac how it works


Posted By: Terryallan on 04/03/15 07:26am

Winged One wrote:

I had a 1988 4x2 SRW. Towed a 5th and drove 15 Michigan winters with it (with rear wheel antilock only, designed to kill the driver).

I had a 2008 4x4 SRW. Towed a 5th and never needed the 4x4. Not used during the winter.

Now I have a 2013 2x4 DRW. Again, never needed it to be 4x4. Not used during the winter.

Depends on what you are going to do with it.

Somehow, me and millions of others survived endless winters with 2x4's because we knew how to drive.


But you got to remember. Most of the younger drivers didn't grow up in a time where 4x4 was VERY rare. They never had the need to really learn how to do with out it. I never had it growing up, and don't need it now.

Sadly, "Most" of today's drivers with todays vehicles are more Riders, and guiders, than drivers. And "many" don't know what to do when they actually have to drive. And most never will have to really drive. Unless all that fancy stuff on the vehicles stops working.

Me. I ride and guide as well. But am able in a instant to become a driver again.


Posted By: Mr.Beebo on 04/03/15 09:53am

I have 4WD for the same reason I keep a fire extinguisher by the wood burner and a handgun in my nightstand. It is good to be prepared.


2010 Rockwood Roo 23SS
2009 Silverado 2500 6.0



Posted By: coolbreeze01 on 04/03/15 02:32pm

I know what a 2-wheel drive is capable of, that's why I own 4x4's.


2008 Ram 3500 With a Really Strong Tractor Motor...........
LB, SRW, 4X4, 6-Speed Auto, 3.73, Prodigy P3, Blue Ox Sway Pro........
2014 Sandsport 26FBSL


Posted By: Sluggo54 on 04/03/15 02:56pm

I'm one of the geezers who grew up without 4wd. Even when I worked in Yellowstone, we had 2wd vehicles only, and managed to get home most nights.
Epiphany: in the early 90's I bought an old Isuzu Trooper, for a work commuter that couldn't be hurt. Replaced the rubber rags with new all season tires. Had a bad winter that year. The old Trooper was 4wd, and would go anywhere. Not quickly, but anywhere. When we got into dragging a 31 foot fiver around and bought our now old Duramax, I didn't want 4wd. Couldn't find one without it. I have used it more than I ever thought I would. Loose gravel, winter in northern Colorado, wet grass, wet boat launch...
Darned useful, if you need it. And, you can't sell a 2wd pickup around here.


DH = Bruce, DW = PK, DD = Maggie (Lab, Pointer, Viszla)RIP 4/13/2007
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Posted By: Veebyes on 04/04/15 01:27pm

This subject never gets old. It is like "Which type of anchor is best?" with boaters.

Looking at the responses, the answers are always the same. Most who have 4wd have never needed it in a RV using situation. 2WD works just fine. They do use it for work, for sightseeing on 4WD trials or because they really do need 4WD in winter. Some have it "just incase they need it". It is their security blanket I guess.

Never owned a 4WD here. Being 2WD makes me think before attempting to go somwhere risky. My security blanket is a piece of towline kept in the truck fulltime. Tim the toolman is never far. He probably does not have a towline with him but he does have 4WD which he has not used in a long time & is always looking for a reason to have it. He can tow me out if I get stuck. He will be waiting a long time for that to happen too. 7 years, over 140,000 miles & have not been in need of a tow yet.


Boat: 32' 1996 Albin 32+2, single Cummins 315hp
40+ night per year overnighter

2007 Alpenlite 34RLR
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Posted By: BenK on 04/04/15 01:36pm

If you have to ask...do not get it...


-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...


Posted By: jrp26789 on 04/04/15 03:44pm

I have had both. I like the 4x4 because I live in MN and and a two wheel drive won't get out of its own way in the winter off road. Now if all you do is tow on pavement to a modern campground, no need for 4x4.


If it is fun, the State of Minnesota will try to outlaw it!
2017 F150 2.7 ecoboost
2 tents



Posted By: pitch on 04/05/15 07:33am

I grew up driving back hill roads with two wheel drive, made it where I was going 98% of the time. Many was the time I would park a tractor down the road,and not even attempt it with the car or truck.
Yep I got along just fine with out four wheel drive for thirty years. There are now three licensed vehicles in my driveway,all of them are either four wheel drive or all wheel drive. It is sweet. sure footed cpable,we all go with confidence. I have four wheel drive because I like it,never will go back.
If my TV was a 100% dedicated tow vehicle I might have it be two wheel drive. I realize that a few posters are well off enough to have a dedicated towing vehicle,but I am not one of them. My TV does many duties and towing the camper is only one of them!


Posted By: rhagfo on 04/05/15 07:59pm

06Fargo wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

06Fargo wrote:

We like 4wd when towing The Big 5'er on roads like this:

[image]


That is no issue a lot of bare pavement.

This a good reason for 4X4.

[image]


Of course, what was I thinking. Monida Pass on I15 is a piece of cake in a snowstorm [emoticon] Are you pulling a tri axle 39ft 16000 lbs trailer on that road?


No it was our old King of the Road, likely about 9,000# to 9,500#, 5er, but please note mine is a picture from the passenger seat, while actually driving on the road. Unlike yours which is a stock picture from Trip Check. [emoticon]

In addition we needed to come to a full stop on an uphill grade while the SP cleared a spin out of a car. No issues getting going.

* This post was edited 04/06/15 07:08am by rhagfo *


Posted By: Elbert on 04/11/15 06:33pm

The logic of if you have to ask...you don't need it...is flawed. There are plenty of questions and answers that may need to be understood for decision points or to weigh how the scenario may apply to oneself.

4*4 is nice to have, do you need it..probably depends on the area you live in and where you plan to travel. Yes you can get stuck on wet grass with some trucks...as dumb as that sounds. (2wd). All situations can't be dealt with the old-school idea that I was driving before 4wd was created. You can get stuck with 4wd too...

There are way too many variables to give a solid answer....most likely if you stick to the pavement and lower elevations and avoid extreme weather then 2wd will serve you well.

At some point the weight and conditions will get the "old-timers" too. Its hard for me to believe that unless you camp in the wal-mart parking lot...that you have not gotten stuck... that is unless you only travel in the summer and you stay below the snow line and are on hard surfaces 100%. Will 4wd solve all your issues about getting stuck..no! A trailer generally magnifies your problems...especially traction (snow/mud/ice)although weight is an asset at times....all depends on the situation. Of course if the trailer swings around and tries to jack-knife....its time to really question if you should not be stopped somewhere.

I have a 3/4 ton truck 2wd 2500 HD and I tow about 10K... I watch where I go and where I can back up etc... A 2wd will probably be a 99% solution....for most of the time. I stick to the hard ground when on grass (off the pavement or gravel). The tow rating for 4wd is reduced by a few hundred pounds due to the weight of the transfer-case...and front end components.

4wd will be on the next truck I get...it can make the difference in moving at times.


Posted By: MitchF150 on 04/11/15 06:57pm

I really don't see what the debate is?? You get a truck for what you need it to do for YOU.. Right??

You either need 4wd or want 4wd..

If neither of those answers works for you, then you've got YOUR answer.. [emoticon]

But, if you still don't know... Well... There you go.. [emoticon]

Mitch


Posted By: time2roll on 04/11/15 07:28pm

06Fargo wrote:

A 2wd tow vehicle is very capable for non-off road towing especially with a no spin differential:

Eaton Tru-Trac how it works
And 4WD with 2x Tru-Trac is even more amazing [emoticon]


Posted By: BenK on 04/11/15 08:19pm

You proved my "flawed" point...

After several hundred words...did the OP get a 'yes' or 'no' answer??

I've been off-roading both 2WD & 4WD since the mid sixties

Used to advisecanyobe asking to get it...thinking more would reduce pricing via higher volumes and more parts

Turns out many were likewise advising YES...

Too many who didn't need nor should drove the OEMs to dumb down 4x4.

Dumbing it down has increased the complexity, cost and servicabilty

Floor levers were too confusing. So they are now generally in the dash with buttons...inter-locked so as to not have them used in the wrong sequence...the Transfer case shifter is now motorised...all requiring a tech to program new parts...min four hours to dial it in

How many times on this and other forums had some one ask of it is ok to drive in 4x4 on pavement??? Plus advisors saying it is ok...they have been and nothing wrong...

Know this for a fact...one of them is my real estate broker, property manager. I told him no...Too many others said yes...Plus he checked off ALL of the options boxes...many he still does not know what they are

Much more...those folks should not get it..they had to ask...


Posted By: batavia02 on 04/11/15 09:02pm

Not too toot my horn but I am op. And I am stunned my simple question has now, up to 6pages thanks gor all the answers .and help. .I will go back and reread all the answers.thanks everybody!


Posted By: time2roll on 04/12/15 10:12am

batavia02 wrote:

Not too toot my horn but I am op. And I am stunned my simple question has now, up to 6pages thanks gor all the answers .and help. .I will go back and reread all the answers.thanks everybody!
A search will find a similar lengthy discussion on 4WD vs 2WD every 6 to 8 weeks.


Posted By: BenK on 04/12/15 11:02am

Example of both asking and advisors on 4x4...vs my point that if you
have to ask...don't get it...you'll know when you need it...

On another forum, someone asked about both a 'vibration' and 'noise'
from underneath their 4x4 half ton pickup

Asked if they drove it in 4x4 on pavement....yes was their answer and
asked me why I'd ask that?

Told them that it should NOT be driven on pavement or any good traction
conditions. As 4x4 is for slippery/adverse/etc conditions.

Then asked if it was full time and they had no clue...clearly someone
who should NOT have bought a 4x4 until they bone up and know HOW2 use
his equipment

Asked how they shifted into 4x4...just push the button with the 4x4.
Asked if there was a 4x4 'low' button....yes...so it is a standard 4x4
with no 3rd member (diff in the transfer case) and two speed transfer case

Some guy then said I was full of it and it is OKAY to drive on pavement
with 4x4 engaged

After a couple cycles...in exasperation asked him to show us how it
is okay by going out to a large DRY asphalt parking lot with no cars
to get in the way and do this:

Put it in 4x4 lock (low even better), turn the steering wheel all the
way to the bump stops. Makes no difference left or right...just to
the bump stop and HOLD it there while giving enough throttle to keep
it rolling

Then drive in a circle all the while holding the steering wheel up
against the bump stop

Then told him it will break something...after 3 or more circles...

A few days later he came back threatening to sue me for breaking his
truck...

Someone reminded him that I warned him...and I reminded him that on these
freebie forums...there is no skin or liability in the advice game...

I do take providing advice seriously and have to sleep at nite



Here is a busted transfer case
[image]bustedtransfercase transfercase



Here is the why of it while in 4x4 lock. All the tires take a different
track or radius. If out in the dirt/etc...the tires will scrub...if
on pavement with good traction...the tires most likely will NOT scrub
but bend/break/etc drive line stuff
[image]4x4radius 4x4arc radius4x4


Posted By: myredracer on 04/12/15 11:10am

BenK wrote:

Example of both asking and advisors on 4x4...vs my point that if you
have to ask...don't get it...you'll know when you need it...


We have 4WD and have never used it. We also have a LSD (4.10). Am curious if a LSD affects anything wrt driving on pavement with 4WD engaged?


Posted By: BenK on 04/12/15 01:11pm

first, understand why there is a differential (if you don't) and then they why
of the various things to then try to simulate a solid axle again...

If the axle is solidly connecting the two wheels for that axle...there is a large
chance the axle will break soon or over time trying to keep both tires spinning
at the same RMPs...going over the different circle radius shown in my above diagram

A differential will allow the two tires to rotate at different RPMS to save
braking the axle

But...the down side is that an 'open' differential will only spin ONE tire if
the vehicle is on slipper surface(s)

That can get you stuck in a hurry...even faster if that one spinning is allowed
to spin really FAST...it will dig a hole deeper...

LS (limited slip) differential has the two axle halves connected to a clutch or
some such mechanism to 'try' to keep both connected as if a solid axle. Again
the above diagram and the rear tires going at different radi...an LS will try
to get both at the same RPM, but will 'slip' because of the clutches (or whatever
that OEM employs to tie the axle halves together)

LS, locker, etc are just trying to keep the axle halves spining at the same
or similar RPMs to keep enough traction to keep going in slippery conditions

AWD or full time 4x4 is just that...there is a 3rd member in the transfer case
to allow the two drive shafts to spin at different RPMs (ref diagram again)_and
NOT break one of the drive shafts or their U-Joints, etc...

LS, locker, etc makes 4x4 even more effective...


Posted By: PRodacy on 04/12/15 01:18pm

Winged One wrote:

I had a 1988 4x2 SRW. Towed a 5th and drove 15 Michigan winters with it (with rear wheel antilock only, designed to kill the driver).

I had a 2008 4x4 SRW. Towed a 5th and never needed the 4x4. Not used during the winter.

Now I have a 2013 2x4 DRW. Again, never needed it to be 4x4. Not used during the winter.

Depends on what you are going to do with it.

Somehow, me and millions of others survived endless winters with 2x4's because we knew how to drive.


And there's the difference. 4x2 drivers survive the winter and 4x4 drivers enjoy the winter.


Posted By: coolbreeze01 on 04/12/15 03:15pm

Various pickups reminded me many times I had forgotten to disengage the 4WD as I turned into my driveway. Often had been in 4WD for hundreds of miles at highway speeds. Luckily, never broke anything.

Not suggesting its OK, just my experience.


Posted By: shakyjay on 04/12/15 07:39pm

4WD drive does not give any greater towing capacity. It does give better traction in certain situations. It also means when you do get stuck you get stuck deeper.


2007 Rockwood 8315SS
2004 GMC 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax Diesel
1999 Dodge 1500 5.9L Gas


Posted By: Slownsy on 04/12/15 09:05pm

Only if you are stupid.
Frank


Frank
2012 F250 XLT
4x4 Super Cab
8' Tray 6.2lt, 3.7 Diff.


Posted By: mowermech on 04/13/15 07:30am

The 4X2 driver:
"That looks questionable. Maybe I better not go there!"
The 4X4 driver:
"I have FOUR WHEEL DRIVE, I can go anywhere! Hold my beer and watch this! Besides, I have a WENCH, I can WENCH myself out if need be!"
(actually, he means WINCH, but whatever...)
Then, since there is nothing to hook the cable to, and he left his land anchor in the garage, and the BLM won't allow him to dig a hole for it anyway, he sits and waits for another 4X4 to come along and pull him out.
Yeah, I have seen it...


Posted By: e-light on 04/13/15 08:21am

4wd for sure...

Last summer I was pulling my TT down a small road to a COE camp ground. I had to pull into the grass to get past another trailer. The grass was wet, ground was FLAT. When I went to pull off rear wheels slipped, no traction. Turned on 4wd high, gave it gas and boom, took right off with no slippage. I would be sure to get 4wd, you never know when you might need it, gravel, wet ground, mud...


2015 Cougar 339BHS 5er
2016 RAM 2500 Crew Cab, 4x4, Laramie, 6.7L Cummins
Andersen Ultimate Aluminum 5th Wheel Connection
GONE:
2014 RAM 2500 Crew Cab, 4x4, Tradesman, 6.4L Hemi


Posted By: Veebyes on 04/13/15 11:05am

mowermech wrote:

The 4X2 driver:
"That looks questionable. Maybe I better not go there!"
The 4X4 driver:
"I have FOUR WHEEL DRIVE, I can go anywhere! Hold my beer and watch this! Besides, I have a WENCH, I can WENCH myself out if need be!"
(actually, he means WINCH, but whatever...)
Then, since there is nothing to hook the cable to, and he left his land anchor in the garage, and the BLM won't allow him to dig a hole for it anyway, he sits and waits for another 4X4 to come along and pull him out.
Yeah, I have seen it...


HA! That is about the size of it. Brute power & ignorance wins the day. It is amazing where a driver of 2WD manual shift & knows how to use clutch can go. For over 40 years I never had an automatic. Nothing but Front WD & RWD. Got into many iffy situations. Never needed a tow.

I carry a tow rope. Actually it is 2000# breaking load boat anchor line. Never needed it. Hope that if the day ever comes when help is needed I don't get some lead footed cowboy with 4WD who applies maximum power on the first try rather than stepping up slowly to what is needed.


Posted By: chracatoa on 04/13/15 01:08pm

Ok, but how about general stability while towing?

When I didn't have the ProPride I noticed that using 4WD would feel more stable (I felt less sway). 4WD HI for the Sequoia is kind of like AWD, I think.


2011 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD 5.7L V8 (next one will be a 3/4, someday)
2012 Jayco Flight Swift 267BHS (5963lbs dry, 6850 wet)
Propride hitch (I had a Reese dual cam round bar WDH for 4 months)


Posted By: Slownsy on 04/13/15 05:57pm

Generalizing is fine but not everybody that has a 4x4 thinks they can go every where, and If stuck get out and evaluate situation instead of reving and burying it. Traveling the Canning stock route in OZ over 1000 sandunes in ouer F250 got stuck 3 times but easily got underway again.
Frank.


Posted By: irishtom29 on 04/13/15 06:21pm

I wonder if in situations most campers are liable to get in that 2WD with a locking differential wouldn't work as well as 4WD. I often drive my 4WD F-150 out on the beach here, south of St. Augustine, and find that in loose, fairly deep sand I can go as well in 2WD with the differential locked as I can in 4WD.


Posted By: IndyCamp on 04/13/15 09:51pm

I just got stuck in the mud last weekend with a 4x4.

I misjudged what I was driving into, had a bed full of firewood, making for about a 9,000 pound truck, and sunk like quicksand into the swampy, muddy mess. The mud was up to about 3/4 of all the tires and there was no getting out of there, 4x4 or not. The difference in my situation was that all four tires spun instead of two.

I was about 30 feet from a paved surfaced and only had a 15-foot tow strap. The guy who originally tried to pull me out with that 15-foot strap had to come off road because of the short strap and started getting stuck himself (in a 4x4 Silverado).

Fortunately, word spread and another guy came along in a 3500 RAM CTD, whipped out his long tow strap, and snatched us out of the muck like it was nothing.

We got back from our camping trip and I immediately bought one of these on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004P9C........=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With all of that said, I will always have a 4x4 truck. They have never failed me in the snow, and I have pulled others out. I now realize, however, why lighter Jeeps with big tires make better true off-road vehicles than heavy pickups with normal tires. [emoticon]


2018 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS
2014 RAM 2500 6.4L HEMI



Posted By: rhagfo on 04/13/15 10:09pm

Slownsy wrote:

Generalizing is fine but not everybody that has a 4x4 thinks they can go every where, and If stuck get out and evaluate situation instead of reving and burying it. Traveling the Canning stock route in OZ over 1000 sandunes in ouer F250 got stuck 3 times but easily got underway again.
Frank.


Living near the coast for most of my life, it was always interesting, to see people get stuck, then get help to get get going only to stop about 50' down the beach to see if they were getting stuck again! [emoticon]


Posted By: mowermech on 04/14/15 07:44am

Yes, I spent a great deal of time enjoying the "show" at Pismo Beach in CA, sitting on the dunes watching the people with 4X4 trucks and camp trailers sitting on the beach, and giving hundreds of dollars to tow operators getting their rigs off the beach.
Often the gyrations they went through before getting the tow truck were the most entertaining, especially when the tide was coming in, and they were below the high tide line!
At that time, we had two 4X4 trucks sitting back at the campground. We resisted the temptation to go play in the sand. We knew we could not afford the towing bill!
Common sense works!


Posted By: Veebyes on 04/14/15 08:15am

mowermech wrote:

Yes, I spent a great deal of time enjoying the "show" at Pismo Beach in CA, sitting on the dunes watching the people with 4X4 trucks and camp trailers sitting on the beach, and giving hundreds of dollars to tow operators getting their rigs off the beach.
Often the gyrations they went through before getting the tow truck were the most entertaining, especially when the tide was coming in, and they were below the high tide line!
At that time, we had two 4X4 trucks sitting back at the campground. We resisted the temptation to go play in the sand. We knew we could not afford the towing bill!
Common sense works!


Right up there with going to a busy boatramp at the end of the day when the boats come back with no alcohol in them but the operators come back full of it.


Posted By: Tystevens on 04/14/15 10:05am

Slownsy wrote:

Generalizing is fine but not everybody that has a 4x4 thinks they can go every where, and If stuck get out and evaluate situation instead of reving and burying it. Traveling the Canning stock route in OZ over 1000 sandunes in ouer F250 got stuck 3 times but easily got underway again.
Frank.


It also means you can go and see some great things while you are out camping in this amazing country of ours:

[image]

[image]

Never would have gotten there w/o 4 wheel drive!


2008 Hornet Hideout 27B
2010 Chevy Suburban 1500 LT, Z71 package, 5.3/6A/3.42
2015 Ford F150 XLT Supercrew, 2.7 Ecoboost/6A/3.55 LS

Prior TVs:
2011 Ford F150 Ecoboost 3.5
2006 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax LBZ
2005 Chevy Suburban 1500 4x4 LT, 5.3/4A/4.10


Posted By: Tystevens on 04/14/15 10:07am

Also means you can camp in some pretty amazing places:

[image]


Posted By: BenK on 04/14/15 11:16am

For those who think *ALL* 4x4's will tow/pull them out of a jam...I'm no longer
one of them...after helping an idiot who had no business owning a 4x4 nor out
where he was stuck with his family (GM pickup)

Had already changed to having them hook up to their own vehicle after seeing
someone yell as a Good Samaritan (both shouldn't have owned 4x4's) bend his
bumper with a nylon strap...wanted the Samaritan to pay for a new bumper...left
them yelling at each other...no way would I ever blame a Good Samaritan for
that...

Give the end with a choker chain to the vehicle in trouble and tell them HOW2
hook up to their *FRAME* rail, not bumper

He didn't like the choker chain because it 'might' scratch his vehicle...

My mistake in not using my +100' of3/8th chains and just wanted to
use my brand new strap...

So, decided I'm not going to help these folks unless they agree in writing to
not hold me for blame in anything (even on a napkin would be enough for me) and
don't unless they are in dire danger...

Before all that...would GLADLY help anyone out there and did so...often...

This is part of why I say: "If you have to ask, don't get...you'll know when
you need/want it"...


Posted By: Frostbitte on 04/14/15 03:23pm

We have winter here so I use 4x4 mainly when not towing in winter. However, there's been a couple of times where I've had to put it into 4-hi and 4-low when in a campground with wet grass or steep gravel hill when getting in or out of a campsite. Truck just lurched the trailer where I wanted it to go no problem whereas a 4x2 would've had trouble.


2011 RAM 3500 Laramie 4x4 6.7 Cummins 6-speed Auto 4.10
2004 Prowler 275 CKS (Sold)
2014 Sabre 36QBOK-7 5th wheel
2016 Forest River 8 x 20 Cargo Trailer


Posted By: time2roll on 04/14/15 03:35pm

irishtom29 wrote:

I wonder if in situations most campers are liable to get in that 2WD with a locking differential wouldn't work as well as 4WD. I often drive my 4WD F-150 out on the beach here, south of St. Augustine, and find that in loose, fairly deep sand I can go as well in 2WD with the differential locked as I can in 4WD.
With two open differentials you get the traction of worst front wheel and the worst rear wheel that together may amount to about nothing. Lock one axle and you get the best and worst on that axle and can easily be a significant improvement. Lock both axles and look out.

I don't have lockers but with True-Trac both front and rear sand is easy.. even up some modest dunes. Stock open front and weak rear clutches I had before was pretty iffy and I had to actually pay attention, not turn too sharp and keep speed up and smooth etc.


Posted By: Sport45 on 04/14/15 07:49pm

Tystevens wrote:

Slownsy wrote:

Generalizing is fine but not everybody that has a 4x4 thinks they can go every where, and If stuck get out and evaluate situation instead of reving and burying it. Traveling the Canning stock route in OZ over 1000 sandunes in ouer F250 got stuck 3 times but easily got underway again.
Frank.


It also means you can go and see some great things while you are out camping in this amazing country of ours:

[image]

[image]

Never would have gotten there w/o 4 wheel drive!


Nice pictures!

Don't get me wrong, as my next truck will be 4x4 without a doubt. But you really need to take pictures of a more challenging road. I've pulled our Boy Scout troop trailer through much worse than that with my 4x2.


’19 F350 SRW CCLB PSD Fx4
'00 F250, CC SWB 4x2, V-10 3.73LS. (sold)
'83 F100 SWB 4x2, 302 AOD 3.55. (parked)
'05 GMC Envoy 4x2 4.2 3.73L.
'12 Edge 2.0 Ecoboost
'15 Cherokee Trailhawk



Posted By: Farmerjon on 04/14/15 11:37pm

BenK wrote:

Had already changed to having them hook up to their own vehicle after seeing
someone yell as a Good Samaritan (both shouldn't have owned 4x4's) bend his
bumper with a nylon strap...wanted the Samaritan to pay for a new bumper...left
them yelling at each other...no way would I ever blame a Good Samaritan for
that...
Give the end with a choker chain to the vehicle in trouble and tell them HOW2
hook up to their *FRAME* rail, not bumper

X2
I was helping a guy and his family get out of the center median on I80 west of Yuma and had him hook it up as I told him I didn't see anywhere to hook it to and he wrapped it around his 5mph bumper. I told him it was not a strong place to put it and he insisted. Ok I pulled him but not very far , one side of his bumper tore loose and the bumper now was sticking straight out from the car.
I felt bad for them but I was done.We told the authorities at the inspection station where they were.
If we did a different kind of camping and stuck to paved highways and avoided freezing weather and no grassy rv parks, etc. And if we didn't need it to get up our drive a few weeks out of the year than maybe we would buy a 2wd.
We did buy a 2wd last year to replace our car. But it is a front wheel drive.
Our thoughts were if it is icy or snowing we will drive one of the 4x4s.
Well We needed to go get my MIL to take her somewhere and she has trouble getting in and out of the trucks.
I knew I could drive down our lane to get out to the gravel rd and then with some aggressive driving get up to the state rd.
Well the trip into town and back was fine but the trip down our gravel rd and then making the turn into our lane and up the hill ( 1/4 mile) was a real thrill.
My wife was laughing and said "WE have our very own Disneyland ride".


2015 F350 Lariat CC LB 4x4 DRW 6.7, 6sp auto, 3.73
2000 F350 lariat SC LB 4x4 DRW 7.3, 6sp manual 3.73
1987 F250 Lariat SC/LB 4x4 SRW 460 4sp stick 4.10
1995 Jeep wrangler
99 Star Craft 953



Posted By: Tystevens on 04/15/15 10:28am

Sport45 wrote:

Nice pictures!

Don't get me wrong, as my next truck will be 4x4 without a doubt. But you really need to take pictures of a more challenging road. I've pulled our Boy Scout troop trailer through much worse than that with my 4x2.


Thanks! The pictures aren't the part of the difficult portion of the road. The first one has about 5 miles of sand up to 6" deep. The second 'could' be accessed w/ high clearance 2wd, but low range really helps to creep through the ruts and over the rocks.


Posted By: BenK on 04/15/15 11:39am

Add that most folks don't understand the WHY's & HOW2's of airing down and low range

Airing down increases the tires contact patch and the 'apparent' dia increases to
over 8 FEET. Some tires will form a 'cup' at the center of the contact patch to
then gain more traction

Low range is not only to climb, but even in flats with loose stuff. Once traction
is broken and in too high a gear...the tires will spin to dig a grave

Anyone who has been out there watching will notice that the tires *WILL* break
traction, but if in compound low...will not spin and regain traction


Then the discussion on tire philosophy...penetration or floatation...vs terrain
and driving style...that is then factored by the equipment at hand...


Posted By: SkipStock on 04/15/15 07:51pm

some great reading on this discussion........BenK, love your advice based on experience
my TV is a '13 F450, so 4WD only option

Also home base is Alaska, so 4WD pretty much a no brainer, although our 2nd vehicle for many years was a front 2WD sedan and it did amazing well if you understood how to drive it.

Don't have a lot of experience towing the 5er yet, but 45+ years of driving in winter and on less than optimum summer roads taught me that 4WD is best used to get OUT of situations you shouldn't have got IN with 2WD.


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