My question is what's an alternative to RV antifreeze, at $3 a gallon and without much alcohol content there must be a more cost efficient mixtures out there? And easier to carry also..
I only need this for my 38 gallon greys and a single 38 black tank, water tank will have its own 12 volt pad heater. Obviously the grey and black won't be full maybe half full most of the time and only for a day or two. Other times we will have full hookups so all tanks (not fresh) will be empty.
Short of making my own Still what are my options?
Ron W
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But my old trailer had non-enclosed valves that froze solid at -6C once. Once we drove to warmer weather, and they unfroze, they were fine.
I don't like using alcohol based antifreeze in my grey/black tanks as I'm afraid the rubber seals will deteriorate.
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rjsurfer wrote:
We're trying to get an early start heading out west this year in April. We're going the South route out and North route back so we will experience some freezing snowy weather for sure. A mix of 50/50 boondocking and full hook up sites.
My question is what's an alternative to RV antifreeze, at $3 a gallon and without much alcohol content there must be a more cost efficient mixtures out there? And easier to carry also..
We're trying to get an early start heading out west this year in April. We're going the South route out and North route back so we will experience some freezing snowy weather for sure. A mix of 50/50 boondocking and full hook up sites.
My question is what's an alternative to RV antifreeze, at $3 a gallon and without much alcohol content there must be a more cost efficient mixtures out there? And easier to carry also..
A long trip like this will obvious induce some fairly significant costs which you're obviously willing to handle ... but you're not willing to buy a few gallons of purpose designed RV antifreeze? Seriously?
![[emoticon]](http://www.rv.net/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
RV antifreeze is specifically designed for the purpose and to be non poisonous not only when it's in the tanks but also when it's later disposed of - not so with other forms of antifreeze. JMO, but what you're proposing just to save a few $$ makes no sense at all.
![[emoticon]](http://www.rv.net/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
As asked above, you can't afford to add $3.00 to the cost of your trip.
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So back to my question, what's a more concentrated antifreeze that would be easier to carry around.
Ron w
rjsurfer wrote:
...
So back to my question, what's a more concentrated antifreeze that would be easier to carry around.
Ron w
...
So back to my question, what's a more concentrated antifreeze that would be easier to carry around.
Ron w
Vodka?
Rob
rvtechwithrvrob.com
-- Chris Bryant
For grins I googled it and found no reasonable alternative.
Since you are going to encounter freezing temps - I'd use antifreeze.
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rv antifreeze ratio
Harvard wrote:
IMO, it is a common misconception that holding tanks at a level below 80 percent will not be a problem. The exit plumbing includes piping that will be 100 percent water and will be destroyed in the freezing process.
IMO, it is a common misconception that holding tanks at a level below 80 percent will not be a problem. The exit plumbing includes piping that will be 100 percent water and will be destroyed in the freezing process.
Not if antifreeze goes in first. it will settle in exit tube around waste gate.
Dennis Hoppert
Single empty-nester in Middle TN, sometimes with a friend or grandchild on board
Chris Bryant wrote:
Rock Salt.
Rock Salt.
x2 on this. Obviously you don't want to use rock salt (or even table salt, which is purer) in your fresh water system, but it's perfectly reasonable for the gray or black water tanks. It will, at least eventually, all dissolve away so not build up crud in the tanks, and it's fairly environmentally friendly, and it doesn't attack rubber seals etc.
Incidentally, the anti-freezing compound in windshield washer fluid (that fluid that is suitable for cold weather use--some formulations are not) is generally ethanol (wood alcohol), which can be somewhat nasty stuff. You certainly do not wan to drink it! Apparently it also attacks some rubber and similar compounds over time, though I don't know if it specifically causes trouble for typical RV sewer valve seals.
Gjac wrote:
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
That's an incredibly bad idea.
The 'antifreeze' is alcohol because it's designed to EVAPOURATE so as not to form ice on your windshield.
When you pour it into a tank with as much surface area as a grey or black tank, it evapourates very quickly and leaves you with a tank of straight water.
For fresh water tanks, I use my Spec's discount and use the bottom shelf vodka. I blow out the lines, add booze and run it through all faucets, then blow the lines out again.
For the grey/black tanks, I empty the tanks, then squirt some Dawn dish detergent to sit there. Soap + water has a markedly lower freezing point.
Disclaimer: I live in Texas, where at worst, it might get into the 20s for a few days. In a northern area, I would not chance it -- I'd run RV antifreeze through the lines, and for the black/gray, I'd just dump a bit more of that.
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If you are really concerned, purchase heating pads for the holding tanks. Turn them on when it gets below freezing and you don't have to worry about them.
-Michael
Michael Girardo
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Let me restate my needs for keeping the holding tanks from freezing.
We'll be going out west via the southern route in the beginning of April slowly heading north through Texas as the weather warms. I'm sure we'll be caught in some freezing weather, not a problem with full hookups but while boondocking I'm looking for something to put in the partially full grey and black holding tanks to keep them from freezing.
As I mentioned, sure I can use a couple of gallons of RV antifreeze in each 1/2 full tank (6 gallons antifreeze total) but carrying and resupplying them is a pain.
I'm just wondering if there is better more concentrated antifreeze that I could use instead, let's say a gallon or less?
As far as the fresh water is concerned I'm putting a 12 heater pad on for the fresh water tank and with all the water lines running through the heated bay no problem with freezing them.
Now, adding 3 more heating pads for the remaining 3 tanks will tax the 12 volt system for sure, hense the need for antifreeze and I'd rather not use the genny all night.
I hope this makes sense....and who knows maybe the RV mixture is strong enough to go with just a gallon per tank, that I could live with.
Thanks
Ron W
JaxDad wrote:
That's an incredibly bad idea.
The 'antifreeze' is alcohol because it's designed to EVAPOURATE so as not to form ice on your windshield.
When you pour it into a tank with as much surface area as a grey or black tank, it evapourates very quickly and leaves you with a tank of straight water.
It really depends on how you use it. I open all low point drains and blow out the water lines and use the windshield washer fluid in my traps and toilet. If I go south for the winter I wait until it gets warm enough before filling FW tank. I have never used RV antifreeze and have been winterizing as described for the last 10 years.
Gjac wrote:
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
That's an incredibly bad idea.
The 'antifreeze' is alcohol because it's designed to EVAPOURATE so as not to form ice on your windshield.
When you pour it into a tank with as much surface area as a grey or black tank, it evapourates very quickly and leaves you with a tank of straight water.
Gjac wrote:
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
And it's poisonous if you put any in your regular water system.To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
B.O.
Former Ram/Cummins owner
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MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Ron Sir, April is not January. You may be making more out of this than may be warranted.
...
Ron Sir, April is not January. You may be making more out of this than may be warranted.
...
Especially in Texas.
And a light frost should not cause any problems.
I wouldn't worry about it.
rjsurfer wrote:
As I mentioned, sure I can use a couple of gallons of RV antifreeze in each 1/2 full tank (6 gallons antifreeze total) but carrying and resupplying them is a pain.
I'm just wondering if there is better more concentrated antifreeze that I could use instead, let's say a gallon or less?
RV antifreeze uses propylene glycol. The concentration (an therefore freezing temperature) may vary by region. Around here, they sell 1:1 (50 percent) mix, which is good to -20F, so you get 1/2 gallon of propylene glycol per gallon of antifreeze. But, it's intended to be used as provided, not diluted.As I mentioned, sure I can use a couple of gallons of RV antifreeze in each 1/2 full tank (6 gallons antifreeze total) but carrying and resupplying them is a pain.
I'm just wondering if there is better more concentrated antifreeze that I could use instead, let's say a gallon or less?
You said you had 38 gallon tanks. If you add 2 gallons of 1:1 to a half full tank (19 gallons), you'll end up with about a 1:20 mix. A 1:5 mix (add over 12 gallons per tank) gets you +20F. That 1:20 mix you wanted - that won't do squat to keep things from freezing, maybe lower the freezing point a couple of degrees, so why even bother?
B.O. Plenty wrote:
B.O.
Read my post I don't use it in my water system when I winterize, I just blow out the water lines with compressed air.
Gjac wrote:
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
And it's poisonous if you put any in your regular water system.To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
B.O.
K Charles wrote:
Where do you get vodka for less then $3.00 a gallon?
Where do you get vodka for less then $3.00 a gallon?
Russia?
Gjac wrote:
It really depends on how you use it. I open all low point drains and blow out the water lines and use the windshield washer fluid in my traps and toilet. If I go south for the winter I wait until it gets warm enough before filling FW tank. I have never used RV antifreeze and have been winterizing as described for the last 10 years.
JaxDad wrote:
That's an incredibly bad idea.
The 'antifreeze' is alcohol because it's designed to EVAPOURATE so as not to form ice on your windshield.
When you pour it into a tank with as much surface area as a grey or black tank, it evapourates very quickly and leaves you with a tank of straight water.
Gjac wrote:
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
That's an incredibly bad idea.
The 'antifreeze' is alcohol because it's designed to EVAPOURATE so as not to form ice on your windshield.
When you pour it into a tank with as much surface area as a grey or black tank, it evapourates very quickly and leaves you with a tank of straight water.
It really depends on how you use it. I open all low point drains and blow out the water lines and use the windshield washer fluid in my traps and toilet. If I go south for the winter I wait until it gets warm enough before filling FW tank. I have never used RV antifreeze and have been winterizing as described for the last 10 years.
I'm not sure how many traps or toilets your unit has, but mine takes maybe a cup per.
If you had two sinks, a toilet and another appliance (washer) with a drain that would take maybe 4 cups.
A half a gallon is too expensive? You need to find something cheaper?
JaxDad wrote:
I'm not sure how many traps or toilets your unit has, but mine takes maybe a cup per.
If you had two sinks, a toilet and another appliance (washer) with a drain that would take maybe 4 cups.
A half a gallon is too expensive? You need to find something cheaper?
Isn't that the question that the OP asked (a cheaper alternative) I just answered his question.
Gjac wrote:
It really depends on how you use it. I open all low point drains and blow out the water lines and use the windshield washer fluid in my traps and toilet. If I go south for the winter I wait until it gets warm enough before filling FW tank. I have never used RV antifreeze and have been winterizing as described for the last 10 years.
JaxDad wrote:
That's an incredibly bad idea.
The 'antifreeze' is alcohol because it's designed to EVAPOURATE so as not to form ice on your windshield.
When you pour it into a tank with as much surface area as a grey or black tank, it evapourates very quickly and leaves you with a tank of straight water.
Gjac wrote:
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
That's an incredibly bad idea.
The 'antifreeze' is alcohol because it's designed to EVAPOURATE so as not to form ice on your windshield.
When you pour it into a tank with as much surface area as a grey or black tank, it evapourates very quickly and leaves you with a tank of straight water.
It really depends on how you use it. I open all low point drains and blow out the water lines and use the windshield washer fluid in my traps and toilet. If I go south for the winter I wait until it gets warm enough before filling FW tank. I have never used RV antifreeze and have been winterizing as described for the last 10 years.
I'm not sure how many traps or toilets your unit has, but mine takes maybe a cup per.
If you had two sinks, a toilet and another appliance (washer) with a drain that would take maybe 4 cups.
A half a gallon is too expensive? You need to find something cheaper?
Gjac wrote:
JaxDad wrote:
I'm not sure how many traps or toilets your unit has, but mine takes maybe a cup per.
If you had two sinks, a toilet and another appliance (washer) with a drain that would take maybe 4 cups.
A half a gallon is too expensive? You need to find something cheaper?
Isn't that the question that the OP asked (a cheaper alternative) I just answered his question.Gjac wrote:
It really depends on how you use it. I open all low point drains and blow out the water lines and use the windshield washer fluid in my traps and toilet. If I go south for the winter I wait until it gets warm enough before filling FW tank. I have never used RV antifreeze and have been winterizing as described for the last 10 years.
JaxDad wrote:
That's an incredibly bad idea.
The 'antifreeze' is alcohol because it's designed to EVAPOURATE so as not to form ice on your windshield.
When you pour it into a tank with as much surface area as a grey or black tank, it evapourates very quickly and leaves you with a tank of straight water.
Gjac wrote:
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
To answer your question directly windshield washer fluid is good to -20 degrees and is less than 1/2 the price of RV antifreeze.
That's an incredibly bad idea.
The 'antifreeze' is alcohol because it's designed to EVAPOURATE so as not to form ice on your windshield.
When you pour it into a tank with as much surface area as a grey or black tank, it evapourates very quickly and leaves you with a tank of straight water.
It really depends on how you use it. I open all low point drains and blow out the water lines and use the windshield washer fluid in my traps and toilet. If I go south for the winter I wait until it gets warm enough before filling FW tank. I have never used RV antifreeze and have been winterizing as described for the last 10 years.
I'm not sure how many traps or toilets your unit has, but mine takes maybe a cup per.
If you had two sinks, a toilet and another appliance (washer) with a drain that would take maybe 4 cups.
A half a gallon is too expensive? You need to find something cheaper?
No, the OP asked for a cheaper alternative to freeze-proof his black and grey tanks, 76 gallons in total, not a couple P traps.
Even at a 50/50 dilution rate (which likely still wouldn't be safe) that would be well over $100 per dump, and reduce his tank capacity by half.