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Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Why can't I get a TRUE Deep cycle battery anymore?

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landyacht318

Near a large body of salty water

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Posted: 07/01/17 11:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

For every attempt to do the right thing, there will be workarounds which will have the opposite of intended effect.

Make a law forcing this or that, and those making money by polluting or whatever, will goto great lengths to find away around it and often these attempts will be more destructive or have other hugely negative inpacts somewhere else.

Human nature, and today's upcoming generations are more selfish and self serving than ever, and money/max profit has never been a louder motive.

RambleOnNW

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Posted: 07/01/17 12:29pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

T18skyguy wrote:

landyacht318 wrote:

T18skyguy wrote:

Batteries plus has a battery with a guarantee of 5 years. It is both a starting battery and a deep cycle. The man who developed the original Optima sold the company, and started a new one. Sorry I can't remember the name of the battery, but seems pretty awesome and has brass post's. It's advertised as 100% lead(so cheaper ones are not all lead?) Anyway, it's 300 bucks. Buy online and pick up in the store is 270 bucks. The name of the battery starts with an x is as much as I remember.


The X2 power battery fropm B+ is a Northstar battery.

The rumor I heard about the founding was that some guys left Enersys/ Odyssey battery to start their own battery company.

No Idea if it is true or not, but many Odyssey and Northstar batteries share the same specs, and both claim thin plate pure lead.

I am getting excellent service from a group 27 northstar AGM. In november it turns 4 years old and it has about ~615 deep cycle on it. I do use it for both engine and house. I used to have a separate house battery but once I saw I could depleted 65Ah of its 90AH capacity and it still easily started my engine, I gave up on the idea shoehorning a trojan T-1275 into my engine compartment.

The northstar AGM has been my only battery for 2 years now. Northstar warrant is 4 years free replacement, Batteries plus adds a year.

While I dual purpose my Northstar, I do not consider it a dedicated deep cycle AGM, That would be Lifeline, but so far it is performing beyond my expectations, but a lot of that is I charge it promptly to a true 100% state of charge, often.

Many dozens of cycles well below 50% too. I;ve no fear of using 80% of its total capacity, as long as I can get it full soon after and use high amps to get there


My Brother went to Batteries plus wanting to buy an Optima. They advised him against it. Said they are not what they use to be since the company was sold. So the Northstar ownership came from Optima? I don't know, just that's what they told me. I'm enjoying you guys talking batteries, you have some real knowledge here.


Replaced the Group 65 chassis battery recently with one of the X2power AGMs. Seems like a good battery. We sometimes run an inverter from the cigarette lighter so having the AGM will be good. And the battery post clamp fits better on the X2power knurled brass posts than on the old battery.

Our Diehard Platinum Group 34 house batteries are still good, they were made by Odyssey which have the same specs. The X2power Group 34 also has the same specs and we plan to go with the X2power AGM when it is time to replace.


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landyacht318

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Posted: 07/01/17 02:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

When i firt got my Northtar, I was only using it as a starting battery, and could not get its resting voltage above 13v, as Northstar states is the full charged OCV.

After one deep cycle and a recharge to full at high amperage it rested at 13.06v forever after when fully charged, and had that extra insane amount of engine cranking grunt which I found shocking.

to get the most from thesse batteries, My experience is a deep cycle and high amp recharge to full to break them in to full potential, and then if deeply cycled again, it really appreciates the high amp recharge. They say 14.46 Vabs at 77F. I use 14.7v and hold it until amps taper to 0.4 or less.

Low and slow solar only recharges, are not so good for these. They need the high amp recharge from a well depleted state every so many cycles, in my experience.

brulaz

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Posted: 07/02/17 07:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

landyacht318 wrote:


...
Low and slow solar only recharges, are not so good for these. They need the high amp recharge from a well depleted state every so many cycles, in my experience.


Low and slow solar is usually what we are doing.

What about telecom AGMs? (used or otherwise)

Same issue? The folks here with telecoms all seem to have generators that they daily fire up to keep them recharged, but it's not clear to me if that is really necessary or not.


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MEXICOWANDERER

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Posted: 07/02/17 08:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It has to do with passage of electrons through openings in the glass mat (I had to simplify this forgive me). Like all things electro-chemical the formula is not linear. But suffice it to say

Charge a depleted AGM slowly over weeks and months

Fail to reach 100% charge over weeks and months

The AGM will throw a Kevorkian Fit.

Toss another reason why the insanely high ampere rechargeability of a Lifeline appeals to me.

But slow and partial recharging is a cumulative degradation. It takes time and the degree of discharge makes all the difference in the world. For instance no AGM could care less if only discharged 40%. Meaning 60% remaining.

But the less than full recharge enters the picture. The longer that insufficient recharge is sustained added to the percentage missing is how that mistreatment is factored.

Perspective

Even 4-5 weeks camping while shortchanging the recharging is not going to kill an AGM. But using a Schmart Charger to recover after you get home is yet another insult to the process. Another Megawatt Moment...

MrWizard

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Posted: 07/02/17 11:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Here is my routine
There are exceptions,
on the avg , I start the generator in the morning and run thru breakfast, maybe lunch
I run until charged, or charged to the point that solar can supply the needed power while also do charging
In the past year with daily full time use, the lowest morning charger on my meter was 69.x percent aka 30 percent overnight use
My last set lasted 5 years i expect this set to last longer
They are getting treated better, charged all the way to full, much more often
Since this set started out with an amp meter that counts the amp hours and displays the charge rate or discharge rate
The meter was added when the other set was several years old, until then it was watch the voltage, not amps and SOC

* This post was edited 07/02/17 01:37pm by MrWizard *


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MEXICOWANDERER

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Posted: 07/02/17 12:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yup. Informed consumers destroy less resources - like me avoiding Wal-Mart tires.

The discouraging part about recommending shortcuts and major lifespan improvements about battery management is the whining about "Are We There Yet?" Nothing could be further from reality. I consume more time daily blowing my nose. Going 10-15 years on a battery needs little interpretation as to the benefits.

profdant139

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Posted: 07/02/17 01:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Mex says, "I consume more time daily blowing my nose."

I sympathize -- my allergies are terrible, too. [emoticon]


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Homeless by Choice

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Posted: 07/02/17 01:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MrWizard wrote:

Here is my routine
There are exceptions, on the avg
I start the generator in the morning and run thru breakfast, maybe lunch
I run until charged, or charged to the point that solar can supply the needed power while also to charging...


I want to go to AGM batteries this fall and want to FULLY recharge them with solar ONLY everyday to get the best battery longevity.

I am very confused. Is that even a possibility? Assuming that I have enough solar panels and full bright sun, Is solar ONLY capable of producing enough voltage to quickly and FULLY recharge AGM batteries?

I keep reading about people bulk charging batteries using gen sets early in the morning and allowing solar to top off the batteries to 100% SOC thru out the remainder of the day. So again my mind still wanders if solar ONLY is capable of producing enough voltage to quickly recharge AGM batteries?

A very confused LeRoy


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MEXICOWANDERER

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Posted: 07/02/17 02:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Total battery bank ampere hours

Divide total by a factor of six.

This gives a comfortable amount of hotel power plus can recharge batteries with consistancy.

Better to be a little light on panel capacity then plan on occasional "rest days" for hotel extraction and let the sun top off the batteries.

Full solar reliance means ignoring absorbsion charging specs offered by OEM. Voltage must be set higher.

Buy your batteries and buy an amp hour meter first. You need to live-the-life and know for a fact what your lifestyle needs as far as daily amp hours. Once you have that amp hours figure return and get advice from the panel a d controller nerds.

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